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Jordan Crawford

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Post#496 Re: Jordan Crawford
Tue Jan 1, 2013 3:58 pm by hands11

nate33 wrote:I don't really see much value in those types of stats, hands11. Of course the team wins more when players play better and they lose when players play worse.


Well if you actually read what I wrote, you might find more value in them. Its not all the players that play better in wins. Many players played better in loses. It is specific players doing specific things that correlated with wins. Nene more rebounds, not pts. Kevin with 3.5 more rebounds is a big delta. Crawford was the one who had a huge delta in scoring in wins.

The point wasn't do players play better, it was which played better in win vs which played better in loses and which were the same. There were a lot of player who played better in loses.

I listed which players made a difference. Which didn't. And what things did the ones that made a difference do. i.e Nene more rebounds not more pts.
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Post#497 Re: Jordan Crawford
Tue Jan 1, 2013 6:14 pm by montestewart

nate33 wrote:I don't really see much value in those types of stats, hands11. Of course the team wins more when players play better and they lose when players play worse.

I could see some possible value in it, but the Wizards have only four wins, so the sample size is pretty small at this point.
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Post#498 Re: Jordan Crawford
Wed Jan 2, 2013 9:44 pm by hands11

Crawford 2nd games back from sitting out with an ankle.

35 min 20 pts on 7-15 and 7 FTA. Team had 10 total FTAs.

Oh, add in 7 assist and 4 rebounds.

The kid sucks. We should have traded for a 2nd round pick. So say the approved board experts.

Every player on the team played at about the level we know they are capable short of Webster and maybe Nene with a few more rebounds. Indy was just a better team and the Wiz are still missing a few pieces.

Another game where they go down in the first and then play them even for three quarters. Seems to be their formula for a loss. Wall and Trevor A should help that.
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Post#499 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 3:32 am by Knighthonor

Wow Jordan Crawford gets no positive talk on this forum, when he been doing so well!

say anything positive about Jordan Crawford here and people call you a troll here.
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Post#500 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 9:39 am by nate33

Jordan Crawford's stats (Last 10 games, Season, and Season per 36 minutes):

Code: Select all
Player      PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  MIN  3P%  TS%  PER
last 10    20.3  4.9  5.7  1.0  0.0  3.3 35.8 .388 .588 19.1
season     16.1  4.1  4.6  0.8  0.1  2.7 30.4 .333 .518 16.8
season p36 19.3  4.9  5.5  0.9  0.1  3.2 30.4 .333 .518 16.8


His numbers for the season are respectable if a bit inefficient. His numbers over the last 10 games are awesome.
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Post#501 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 9:44 am by mhd

I wonder what type of value Crawford has around the league. He's exactly the type of player a contender would want in the sense that he's very cheap for the next 1.5 years and is a bench combo guard.
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Post#502 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 9:54 am by nate33

I wonder if his value is reaching the point where he might be a key component of an upcoming Cousins trade?

Crawford has definitely improved to the point where he can be a useful addition to many rosters. The question is, is he good enough to help a good team win? I'm not convinced that he can be reeled in enough if he was playing alongside better teammates. But in his defense, we really haven't given him the opportunity. On this team, Crawford has little choice but to jack up a bunch of shots.
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Post#503 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 11:11 am by hands11

nate33 wrote:Jordan Crawford's stats (Last 10 games, Season, and Season per 36 minutes):

Code: Select all
Player      PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  MIN  3P%  TS%  PER
last 10    20.3  4.9  5.7  1.0  0.0  3.3 35.8 .388 .588 19.1
season     16.1  4.1  4.6  0.8  0.1  2.7 30.4 .333 .518 16.8
season p36 19.3  4.9  5.5  0.9  0.1  3.2 30.4 .333 .518 16.8


His numbers for the season are respectable if a bit inefficient. His numbers over the last 10 games are awesome.


Seems you are coming full circle but you still want to trade him. Maybe they do one day, but for today, I enjoy watching him play for us. I just went back to read some of the early posts. People liked the idea of Crawford back then before it became board think that he is the worst and we need to trade him for a ham sandwich. Folks like the idea of him with Wall and Nick as a 3rd guard. I think what we have now is an upgrade to that model. Big picture, things are working out. They upgraded from Nick.

Wall
Beal/Crawford

If the rookie keeps up what he started 3 games ago, Beal is going to be a much more complete player then Nick was. Beal rebounds, drives, etc. Crawford keeps improving his numbers year over year and he is obviously a big ball type player. And as you pointed out, he is on a min hot streak again like he had earlier in the year. Keep in mind. He missed a game only 3 games ago with a bad ankle which he has been playing on for much of the year.

I remember a post I did a while about reviewing Crawford. Mostly it came down to him improving his straight on 3 ball and getting more foul calls while driving. If he could do that, kid is a beast.

I like were this team is headed. We haven't seen the fruits of the moves yet as wins, but it is starting to add up.

Wall/Temple/Price
Beal/Crawford

I'm excited to see that rotation. It has a little bit of everything. Temple and Price make for a good combination backing up PG. One tall that can defend 2 or 3 slots. One smaller and quicker PG/SG combo type that can guard the speedy PGs. Plus, Price as a back up PG won't need to do as much. i.e. carry the starting job. In that role, he can shoot some 3 balls as well which is capable of doing.

For SG - as mentioned. If Beal is really going to start hitting 3 balls like he has the last 3 games 8-15, then this is a game changer for the team. I have zero problem with that Beal starting if he approaches the game like he has the last 3 games. None at all. Beal is playing more like a man and his game face has changed. You can see it. Now add that Wall is returning.

Oh yeah. This is going to be fun.

As for Crawford. This has been the year of Big Ball becoming a legit NBA player. He is going to have a long career. I can see that now.

Best 4-27 team every for sure. Healthy, this team is going to be fun to watch and they will clearly win more games.
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Post#504 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 11:56 am by nate33

hands11 wrote:Seems you are coming full circle but you still want to trade him. Maybe they do one day, but for today, I enjoy watching him play for us. I just went back to read some of the early posts. People liked the idea of Crawford back then before it became board think that he is the worst and we need to trade him for a ham sandwich. Folks like the idea of him with Wall and Nick as a 3rd guard. I think what we have now is an upgrade to that model. Big picture, things are working out. They upgraded from Nick..

My opinion on Crawford has been consistent throughout. Early on, when everyone loved him, I cautioned that he was merely a low percentage scorer on a bad team and that to become a difference maker on a good team, he would need to improve his shot and his shot selection. I said that he was little better than a "break glass in case of emergency" type player; but if he improved, he could become a useful 3rd guard. I also continually stated that, to be fair to Crawford, he pretty much has to be a gunner given the offensive ineptitude of his teammates.

I was never in the "addition by subtraction" crowd who really thought that Crawford was detrimental to the team.

My opinion today remains pretty much unchanged. He has improved to the point where I think he is now knocking on the door to being a useful 3rd guard. He is already good enough to be a 3rd guard on a bad team. It remains to be seen whether he's good enough to be a 3rd guard on a good team. That'll depend on his shot selection and efficiency if and when he gets to play alongside good teammates.
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Post#505 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 12:00 pm by Benjammin

You try to trade from a position of strength, not weakness. If JC's perception around the league has improved and he has value, absolutely I would explore things while he is playing well. I am doubtful that he has had a fundamental change in his game.
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Post#506 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 12:15 pm by hands11

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:Seems you are coming full circle but you still want to trade him. Maybe they do one day, but for today, I enjoy watching him play for us. I just went back to read some of the early posts. People liked the idea of Crawford back then before it became board think that he is the worst and we need to trade him for a ham sandwich. Folks like the idea of him with Wall and Nick as a 3rd guard. I think what we have now is an upgrade to that model. Big picture, things are working out. They upgraded from Nick..

My opinion on Crawford has been consistent throughout. Early on, when everyone loved him, I cautioned that he was merely a low percentage scorer on a bad team and that to become a difference maker on a good team, he would need to improve his shot and his shot selection. I said that he was little better than a "break glass in case of emergency" type player; but if he improved, he could become a useful 3rd guard. I also continually stated that, to be fair to Crawford, he pretty much has to be a gunner given the offensive ineptitude of his teammates.

I was never in the "addition by subtraction" crowd who really thought that Crawford was detrimental to the team.

My opinion today remains pretty much unchanged. He has improved to the point where I think he is now knocking on the door to being a useful 3rd guard. He is already good enough to be a 3rd guard on a bad team. It remains to be seen whether he's good enough to be a 3rd guard on a good team. That'll depend on his shot selection and efficiency if and when he gets to play alongside good teammates.


But wouldn't you have traded him by now ?

I remember going back and forth with you over Crawford. I was staying wait, he can get there. You were on the side of, he hasn't show a reason to believe he will and he has so far to go just to get to average. I didn't think that wasn't true because it looked to be so much based on his 3 ball and getting shooting fouls. Those go up, all his lower numbers go up.

In the trade thread Crawford would have been traded already 100 times over. My view is, he is getting better and I think he will continue to do so. His keep value/trade value is up, but I think it is going higher. People in the press are starting to take notice that he is one of the best bench guards in the league.

Not sure, I could be wrong, by consistent throughout seems to be over stating your position regarding Crawford. Maybe I am confusing you with someone else.
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Post#507 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 12:29 pm by nate33

I caution you not to believe that his current streak is sustainable. Crawford does not have the type of game that will enable him to maintain a TS% in the 58% range. He shoots too many contested long 2's and doesn't get to the line enough. He is on a hot streak and will come back down to Earth. That's not to say that he hasn't improved this year. He definitely has. But I think his season averages are more indicative of they type of player that he is rather than are his averages over the past 10 games.

Crawford remains what I consider to be an inefficient volume scorer. He isn't comfortable off the ball, and he's not efficient enough to be primary ball handler in a starting unit of a good team. He has improved in both areas, but still has a ways to go. At his age, with 3 years under his belt, I suspect that he is close to peaking. Like I've said before, I believe he now has a role in this league and he deserves plenty of credit for that. But I think there is very little chance that he becomes a star or a starting caliber player. But hey, a quality 3rd guard is a nice thing to have too. Let's hope he gets to that point and stays there.
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Post#508 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 1:02 pm by TGW

He is on a streak just like Nick Young got on a hot streak when he played here...it's not sustainable, because as Nate pointed out, he still takes bad shots. It's just that lately, many of them have been going in.

Trading him now, while he has some value, would be the smart move.
milellie111 wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Post#509 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 1:05 pm by hands11

But for the record.

He is playing as well at the starting SG of the LAC who are in 2nd place and the starting SG of the NYN who are in 5th play.

Opinions aside. Those are the facts.

If those are two of the top 5 team in the league, then he clearly could be starting in this league.

So the fact that we have him as a back up SG who can play PG when needed is a really nice thing to have. Specially at 1M a year.
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Post#510 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 4:12 pm by nate33

hands11 wrote:But for the record.

He is playing as well at the starting SG of the LAC who are in 2nd place and the starting SG of the NYN who are in 5th play.

Opinions aside. Those are the facts.

If those are two of the top 5 team in the league, then he clearly could be starting in this league.

So the fact that we have him as a back up SG who can play PG when needed is a really nice thing to have. Specially at 1M a year.

Fact: Garrett Temple is statistically playing about as well as the starting PG for the 2012 World Champion Miami Heat.
Fact: Bradley Beal is statistically outplaying the starting SG on the 2011 World Champion Dallas Mavericks
Fact: Martell Webster is statistically outplaying the starting SF on the 2007 World Champion San Antonio Spurs
Fact: Nene is statistically outplaying the starting PF on the 2006 World Champion Miami Heat
Fact: Okafor is statistically outplaying the starting C on the 2008 World Champion Boston Celtics.

Opinions aside. These are facts. Clearly, the Wizards should be winning championships with this lineup.
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Post#511 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 4:53 pm by montestewart

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:But for the record.

He is playing as well at the starting SG of the LAC who are in 2nd place and the starting SG of the NYN who are in 5th play.

Opinions aside. Those are the facts.

If those are two of the top 5 team in the league, then he clearly could be starting in this league.

So the fact that we have him as a back up SG who can play PG when needed is a really nice thing to have. Specially at 1M a year.

Fact: Garrett Temple is statistically playing about as well as the starting PG for the 2012 World Champion Miami Heat.
Fact: Bradley Beal is statistically outplaying the starting SG on the 2011 World Champion Dallas Mavericks
Fact: Martell Webster is statistically outplaying the starting SF on the 2007 World Champion San Antonio Spurs
Fact: Nene is statistically outplaying the starting PF on the 2006 World Champion Miami Heat
Fact: Okafor is statistically outplaying the starting C on the 2008 World Champion Boston Celtics.

Opinions aside. These are facts. Clearly, the Wizards should be winning championships with this lineup.

Heat, Spurs, Mavs, Celts...man, the Wizards are loaded. Give it time, like a fine wine.

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Post#512 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 4:56 pm by hands11

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:But for the record.

He is playing as well at the starting SG of the LAC who are in 2nd place and the starting SG of the NYN who are in 5th play.

Opinions aside. Those are the facts.

If those are two of the top 5 team in the league, then he clearly could be starting in this league.

So the fact that we have him as a back up SG who can play PG when needed is a really nice thing to have. Specially at 1M a year.

Fact: Garrett Temple is statistically playing about as well as the starting PG for the 2012 World Champion Miami Heat.
Fact: Bradley Beal is statistically outplaying the starting SG on the 2011 World Champion Dallas Mavericks
Fact: Martell Webster is statistically outplaying the starting SF on the 2007 World Champion San Antonio Spurs
Fact: Nene is statistically outplaying the starting PF on the 2006 World Champion Miami Heat
Fact: Okafor is statistically outplaying the starting C on the 2008 World Champion Boston Celtics.

Opinions aside. These are facts. Clearly, the Wizards should be winning championships with this lineup.


That is completely different from what I was saying.

Are you suggesting that you don't compare Crawford and other players against current peers when evaluating their worth or starter potential in the league. Because that is all I did. What you did was totally different.

Taking multiple players and comparing them against players in past years then putting that information together to say they should be the best in the league ? Yeah. ok. And you infer this is using the same logic as saying one play given his stats against his peer group shows he could start for one of the many teams in the league including some of the better ones ? Not even remotely the same thing.
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Post#513 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 6:20 pm by jivelikenice

Crawford has improved a great deal, but I'd still shop him. I just don't feel comfortable having Jordan on our roster in a contract yr or giving him the extension he'll be looking for.

Also, while he is improved, I still view him as a sixth man type only. The longer he's on the floor, he'll hurt you like he did in basically losing the game in the first OT yesterday. And when he's not "on", just limit his minutes.....the problem I see is his lack of respect for those around him. I don't mean this as a slight but on this team he just won't view himself as anything other than the go to guy on this team. And one more ting about him....I'm just not sure the losing gets to him as long as he gets his touches and produces....I don't get the feeling that he's terribly disappointed by how this season has played out.
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Post#514 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 7:15 pm by Dat2U

I love that Crawford is increasing his trade value. I wouldn't hesitate to include him in the right package though. Only assets that I'd likely hold onto is Wall, Beal, the 2013 & 2014 picks. We are so bereft of talent that I'm not feeling the idea of parting with a likely high lottery pick at this point. Plus the 2014 draft projects to be very strong. If anything, I'm trying to add picks, especially '14 1st rounders.
hands11 wrote:Of course Dray was an idiot. So were the fans for endlessly booing him. Had they not done that, they could have actually keep him around and traded him when his value wasn't rock bottom.
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Post#515 Re: Jordan Crawford
Sat Jan 5, 2013 8:14 pm by 80sballboy

Dat2U wrote:I love that Crawford is increasing his trade value. I wouldn't hesitate to include him in the right package though. Only assets that I'd likely hold onto is Wall, Beal, the 2013 & 2014 picks. We are so bereft of talent that I'm not feeling the idea of parting with a likely high lottery pick at this point. Plus the 2014 draft projects to be very strong. If anything, I'm trying to add picks, especially '14 1st rounders.


Not sure he has much trade value. Scouts don't look at stats. Just watch the games. He's an undersized two with vey ilttle inclination to defend or pass. He can make some incredible shots and heat up. Maybe with a better team, he'd be a more consistent 6th man type of scorer. We won 4 games with him as the number one option. Beal is the future and present. When Wall and Price return and if they keep Temple in the rotation or at leat around, his minutes will diminish since he's playing some 1.
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