Jan Vesely

[MJG]

Did it really take a new thread to ask this question?

[AFM]

He just needs to work on his step back jumper and his advanced pull up game (along with his hand speed)
Imagine Vesely pulling off this move:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyHYnD6_2A[/youtube]

[montestewart]

He just needs to work on his step back jumper and his advanced pull up game (along with his hand speed)
Imagine Vesely pulling off this move:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyHYnD6_2A[/youtube]

I like what you're saying AFM, but your posts would be a lot more persuasive if they were half a block long with no spaces.

[AFM]

I admit I am trying to post more like hands and WizD. WizD's posts are great if you can stand his hatred of the return key.

[montestewart]

he a bust

Bradley Beal (he a bust, he a bust)
Jan Vesely (he a bust, he a bust)
John Wall (he a bust, he a bust)
That's the reason that the Wizards suck

Come up with some verses JM.

[AFM]

Anyway we can change the name to the Dem Bust Boyz?

[DANNYLANDOVER]

It took a dumb trade for Okafor and Ariza, the return of Booker, and the conversion of Chris Singleton into a PF to push Vesely out of the rotation and cloud his role with the team in his second year.

Vesely already was a marginal talent selected at #6, but at the end of last season the Wizards had 6 straight wins and Vesely played a role in each of them. He ended the season well. Since, he was advised to gain weight and the Wizards basically f'd up under Ernie Grunfeld.

NOW fans who always blame young players are calling Vesely a bust. He is what he is and there is a reason scouting services had him on the radar with Ernie overreached to draft Jan #6.

Vesely needs to go to Europe or to a team like the Minnesota Timberwolves. He is not a complete bust.

I still do not understand this argument. Do you think Vesely would be getting minutes on any other team? Vesely is down the pecking order on the roster because he is a terrible basketball player. I think we've had so many of those, that our standards are very low. The Washington Wizards are a professional NBA team (at least, we should be), so playing a marginal NBA player till he gets better should not be our goal. That is what practice and the D-League is for. Vesely was bas his rookie season and hasn't shown any improvement when he's been on the floor this season. Okafor, Booker, Singleton have absolutely nothing to do with the way he performs when he's out there. This is also my issue with Beal getting so many minutes. This organization drafted a 19 yr old SG (another project) and expects him to carry the scoring load for this team. Well, we've all seen how that turned out. He should have been coming off the bench, while learning from an established veteran. Vesely, playing like he is right now, wouldn't see the floor for pretty much any other NBA team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

he a bust

Bradley Beal (he a bust, he a bust)
Jan Vesely (he a bust, he a bust)
John Wall (he a bust, he a bust)
That's the reason that the Wizards suck

Come up with some verses JM.

Add a go go beat soundtrack a la the late Chuck Brown or E U and you might have a local hit.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It took a dumb trade for Okafor and Ariza, the return of Booker, and the conversion of Chris Singleton into a PF to push Vesely out of the rotation and cloud his role with the team in his second year.

Vesely already was a marginal talent selected at #6, but at the end of last season the Wizards had 6 straight wins and Vesely played a role in each of them. He ended the season well. Since, he was advised to gain weight and the Wizards basically f'd up under Ernie Grunfeld.

NOW fans who always blame young players are calling Vesely a bust. He is what he is and there is a reason scouting services had him on the radar with Ernie overreached to draft Jan #6.

Vesely needs to go to Europe or to a team like the Minnesota Timberwolves. He is not a complete bust.

I still do not understand this argument. Do you think Vesely would be getting minutes on any other team? Vesely is down the pecking order on the roster because he is a terrible basketball player.

i don't feel like doing what I did in the past but I will repeat part of it. Jan shot 8-8 in a game once. He had several good games as a rookie. DANNYLANDOVER, if the Wizards had a primary scorer like Kevin Love, he could play with Vesely very well. Vesely is 6'11", very mobile, and he has a very high basketball IQ. I've watched him do things that help teams win. He reminds me a bit of Bobby Jones who played with the 76ers. The main thing wrong with Vesely is he is better playing with Wall at a fast pace. The guy cuts well and he would be much better with a good facilitator like John Wall.

I think we've had so many of those, that our standards are very low. The Washington Wizards are a professional NBA team (at least, we should be), so playing a marginal NBA player till he gets better should not be our goal. That is what practice and the D-League is for. Vesely was bas his rookie season and hasn't shown any improvement when he's been on the floor this season. Okafor, Booker, Singleton have absolutely nothing to do with the way he performs when he's out there. This is also my issue with Beal getting so many minutes. This organization drafted a 19 yr old SG (another project) and expects him to carry the scoring load for this team. Well, we've all seen how that turned out. He should have been coming off the bench, while learning from an established veteran. Vesely, playing like he is right now, wouldn't see the floor for pretty much any other NBA team.

It is this word: PRESSURE. Playing LESS minutes and you get pulled the first mistake you make, that makes a young player PRESS.

When you say the presence of those other players does not affect his play I think that is the very same thing Grunfeld thinks. The day he made both trades for Nene and Okafor/Ariza I predicted what would happen. I said young players would regress, both Kevin and Vesely. I said veteran players would get their minutes. I pointed out 240 minutes are available each game. There are 48 minutes for PF and 48 minutes for C in a regulation game.

DANNY, you think letting a guy get 8 minutes of burn he's going to play with the same confidence, cohesiveness, court awareness, poise, and good timing than he would if he played 22-25 minutes last season? You think he will shoot it BETTER? You think he will IMPROVE when suddenly Chris Singleton is no longer a SF because the Wizards acquired Ariza and Webster.

IT DOES AFFECT PLAYERS WHEN ANOTHER PLAYER PUSHES THEM BACK DOWN THE ROSTER AND THE COACH IS DESPERATE FOR WINS.

If you cannot understand that I say you are not alone. Ernie and Ted throw veteran bodies on a roster with no sense of team chemistry or continuity at all. They presuppose veteran means better than young player.

Vesely indeed has taken a step back. Maybe he SUCKS so bad he wouldn't play any where else but I doubt that. I recall Tiago Splitter being a terrible player for the Spurs, despite his international reputation. Years later he has improved a lot.

Vesely plays for a terrible organization and the fans, MYSELF INCLUDED are fed up and negative. Jan is an intelligent young man and very athletic for his height. He can't shoot and he's weak, but he's young.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

It took a dumb trade for Okafor and Ariza, the return of Booker, and the conversion of Chris Singleton into a PF to push Vesely out of the rotation and cloud his role with the team in his second year.

Vesely already was a marginal talent selected at #6, but at the end of last season the Wizards had 6 straight wins and Vesely played a role in each of them. He ended the season well. Since, he was advised to gain weight and the Wizards basically f'd up under Ernie Grunfeld.

NOW fans who always blame young players are calling Vesely a bust. He is what he is and there is a reason scouting services had him on the radar with Ernie overreached to draft Jan #6.

Vesely needs to go to Europe or to a team like the Minnesota Timberwolves. He is not a complete bust.

I still do not understand this argument. Do you think Vesely would be getting minutes on any other team? Vesely is down the pecking order on the roster because he is a terrible basketball player.

i don't feel like doing what I did in the past but I will repeat part of it. Jan shot 8-8 in a game once. He had several good games as a rookie. DANNYLANDOVER, if the Wizards had a primary scorer like Kevin Love, he could play with Vesely very well. Vesely is 6'11", very mobile, and he has a very high basketball IQ. I've watched him do things that help teams win. He reminds me a bit of Bobby Jones who played with the 76ers. The main thing wrong with Vesely is he is better playing with Wall at a fast pace. The guy cuts well and he would be much better with a good facilitator like John Wall.

I think we've had so many of those, that our standards are very low. The Washington Wizards are a professional NBA team (at least, we should be), so playing a marginal NBA player till he gets better should not be our goal. That is what practice and the D-League is for. Vesely was bas his rookie season and hasn't shown any improvement when he's been on the floor this season. Okafor, Booker, Singleton have absolutely nothing to do with the way he performs when he's out there. This is also my issue with Beal getting so many minutes. This organization drafted a 19 yr old SG (another project) and expects him to carry the scoring load for this team. Well, we've all seen how that turned out. He should have been coming off the bench, while learning from an established veteran. Vesely, playing like he is right now, wouldn't see the floor for pretty much any other NBA team.

It is this word: PRESSURE. Playing LESS minutes and you get pulled the first mistake you make, that makes a young player PRESS.

When you say the presence of those other players does not affect his play I think that is the very same thing Grunfeld thinks. The day he made both trades for Nene and Okafor/Ariza I predicted what would happen. I said young players would regress, both Kevin and Vesely. I said veteran players would get their minutes. I pointed out 240 minutes are available each game. There are 48 minutes for PF and 48 minutes for C in a regulation game.

DANNY, you think letting a guy get 8 minutes of burn he's going to play with the same confidence, cohesiveness, court awareness, poise, and good timing than he would if he played 22-25 minutes last season? You think he will shoot it BETTER? You think he will IMPROVE when suddenly Chris Singleton is no longer a SF because the Wizards acquired Ariza and Webster.

IT DOES AFFECT PLAYERS WHEN ANOTHER PLAYER PUSHES THEM BACK DOWN THE ROSTER AND THE COACH IS DESPERATE FOR WINS.

If you cannot understand that I say you are not alone. Ernie and Ted throw veteran bodies on a roster with no sense of team chemistry or continuity at all. They presuppose veteran means better than young player.

Vesely indeed has taken a step back. Maybe he SUCKS so bad he wouldn't play any where else but I doubt that. I recall Tiago Splitter being a terrible player for the Spurs, despite his international reputation. Years later he has improved a lot.

Vesely plays for a terrible organization and the fans, MYSELF INCLUDED are fed up and negative. Jan is an intelligent young man and very athletic for his height. He can't shoot and he's weak, but he's young.

Hmm, I see where you are coming from, but I still don't think that's the case with Vesely. Wasn't he starting a couple games ago? Didn't he have 4 fouls in 7 mins last game? Doesn't he have more fouls than points this season (quite an impressive feat, I must say)? Singleton plays PF because Ves can't be trusted to score points and stay on the floor. I think your argument works for a player who hasn't been given enough chances. He was our starting PF last season. I still don't like a situation where a player like Ves stinks it up night in and night out and his minutes go unchallenged. If he can't beat out Okafor and Booker (two very average players) for minutes, he's a lost cause.

[WizarDynasty]

vesely is not a powerforward. He has no "power" to his game. He was a specialization player back in Europe. His specialty is that he has quick enough feet to guard small forward and disrupt passing lanes that is it. He also runs the floor and can finish if he has an open lane the basket.
He never showed touch inside the paint at any point in his career in russia. He was never known as an offensive player in russia. He was a passer on the perimeter and he played full court press.
Whoever in the front office that predicted Vesely could pan out to be an nba starting powerforward should be fired. Until he refines his perimeter ball handling skills, which he showed glimpses of in russia, he should get nothing but backup minutes guard small forwards.
If you try to do anything else with him, you are going to ruin him just like you did Jared Jeffries. Spend 5 hours a day forcing him to dribble on the perimeter one on one until he shows you that he can beat score regularly against an average defender. Until he shows significant improvement, keep his butt glued to the bench. Anyone that is shooting airball is telling you they really don't care about basketball. he is physical so to even dare think he is a powerforward is crazy.
On top of that, his russian coach, who he trust more than whitman, already told him his future is at small forward. Money is not going to change what Vesely's trust of his russian coach.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

WD, that is where I think Vesely should play, too. Small forward. Just let him pass the ball and get tap ins and set picks. Use his energy the right way in a BIG lineup.

I cannot fathom why people never could visualize playing Seraphin at PF and McGee at C. Likewise, play Vesely at backup SF or backup C, and don't worry about him playing PF because there are a dozen on this team.

Livingston, Webster, Vesely, Okafor, Seraphin could win games on size and mismatches but a coach would have to really think out of the box. Just throw over the top and rebound. Stand Vesely at the top on offense and let him pass inside. Opponents would have trouble matching up and the Wizards would be tougher defensively.

Vesely is a liability in general but he's potentially very useful if used correctly. Seraphin could have played with McGee. Vesely can play SOME backup SF, too.

[dangermouse]

get one of those chairs from clockwork orange with the eye-restrainers and have him watch every game andre kirilenko ever played, over and over until he gets it.

his passing is there, ak was a pretty good passer. havent watched him lately. hes smart enough. all we can do is hope he develops and adds strength to play most PFs.

[keynote]

he a bust

Bradley Beal (he a bust, he a bust)
Jan Vesely (he a bust, he a bust)
John Wall (he a bust, he a bust)
That's the reason that the Wizards suck

Come up with some verses JM.

Add a go go beat soundtrack a la the late Chuck Brown or E U and you might have a local hit.

Other hits include:
"Big Ernie don't give a f***" (yeah that's true)

"Well they call it stormy draft day, but the trades are just as bad"

"It don't mean a thing, if we ain't tryin' to win a ring"

"Run Schmoes, Run Schmoes" "that's who we put on the floor"

"Money" (eh, I don't think we need to change the lyrics of that one)

[nate33]

To answer the question posed by the OP:

Yes. I think it took a new season to verify that he is a bust. We could see in his first season that he utterly lacked the basketball skills to be a SF and he is very underskilled to man the PF position. Two things he did were defend the pick and roll and disrupt the passing lanes. My thinking was that if he bulked up a bit and could get better at holding his position against PF's and C's, he could pan out to be a pretty good defensive big.

Unfortunately, after a full offseason, we haven't seen any improvement at all in his game. His basketball fundamentals are still laughably bad, with the airball freethrows and his genuine fear of finishing in traffic. And despite bulking up a bit, he is utterly incapable of holding his position against NBA big men in the post and on the glass. He is terrible. I love the effort and energy he exudes, but there simply isn't a place for him on the basketball court. He is a bust unless he takes a cycle of steroids and comes back with a whole lot more lower body strength.

I think it's a fantasy to assume he can ever play SF. He doesn't even have the skills now to handle the SF position at the high school level. He's not going to develop the skills to handle SF at the NBA level anytime soon. It's just not going to happen. Yes, he can defensively match up with SF's, but the only way that is going to work is if we have an elite PF who can play like a SF on offense yet still guard PF's on defense. And even if we did have such a player, we'd still be better off pairing that player with a real SF who can actually perform SF duties on offense. Whatever extra Vesely could provide defensively over an average SF isn't worth what we would lose on offense.

[sashae]

i don't feel like doing what I did in the past but I will repeat part of it. Jan shot 8-8 in a game once. He had several good games as a rookie.

That was his best game as a Wizard, producing 16pts, 6reb, 4stl, 1ast for a game score of 18.7.

He has produced 6 games in his career with a game score over 10.

Kwame Brown in his second year produced a dozen game scores over 10, including 20pts, 6reb, 6blk, 1stl, 1ast against Boston, 15pts, 11reb, 3stl, 1ast, 2blk against Miami, 20pts, 12reb, 2blk against Chicago and 12pts, 18reb, 2ast, 2stl, 5blk against Toronto.

Vesely is AWFUL. He hasn't shown the remotest ability to be a productive player at the NBA level, and should be riding the bus down in the D League or back in Serbia.

[pancakes3]

i too saw the potential of Ves turning himself into a useful defensive player and serve as a poor man's Joakim Noah or (dare I dream) Chandler but it just didn't happen.

Also, Fish is not going to like this thread at all. Merge?

[cwb3]

get one of those chairs from clockwork orange with the eye-restrainers and have him watch every game andre kirilenko ever played, over and over until he gets it.

his passing is there, ak was a pretty good passer. havent watched him lately. hes smart enough. all we can do is hope he develops and adds strength to play most PFs.

Best idea yet!

[WizarDynasty]

there is one solution which requires only a person of power to install. Vesely has to put under a serious perimeter dribbling regimen for him to have any value. Once he demonstrates the ability to score from the perimeter against a point guard, that's when Vesely will be useful to this team. No one in management has the expertise on how to unlock his strengths.
If Vesely if forced to work on his handspeed dribbling 5 hours a day for the next month using both hands, he then can use his natural first step explosiveness and really start to look like Blake Griffin. When you see Vesely take off, he has rockets in his legs. He just doesn't has poorly developed dribbling that can be easily improved if a person who wields power in the organization is pushing him. I don' think Vesely has any clue how good he would be with greatly improved handspeed. If he did, then we would have seen the improvement.
It's like living the jared jeffries fiasco all over again, except we have an owner that actually cares about longterm value.
Vesely problem is his youth. His mind doesn't have the flexibilty to imagine how fun it is playing basketball when you can actually have full control of the basketball and not worry about fumbling the ball against defensive pressure.
The quicker he becomes an expert at dribbling, the quicker the wizards can benefit from Vesely's dominant physical attributes. the problem is, can you imagine Whitman making this statement to the press? NOpe because this is not whitman's thinking--- it's the same problem over and over again with this culture, the player never.......never........improve their dribbling skills because management doesn't believe forwards and powerforwards....let alone point guards needs t exhibit expert dribbling skills before they are allowed minutes on the court. It's a fundamental breakdown from the top.
If the top is clueless about the definition of elite dribbling skills for a forward, then you see no emphasis placed on the most important aspect to offensive basketball. Being an expert dribbler is more important than shooting the basketball but if your coaches have no clue on how to transform a player into an expert dribbler then your end result is the washington wizards. Grunfeldian culture is clueless as to how transform a poor dribbler into an elite dribbler and they don't have standards in place as far as evaluating a player's dribbling ability and improvements. the result is that you don't see improvement from season to season. Mediocre because of lack of bbiq from top management. Young players can't envision what they could be if they had a particular skill improvement--- the biggest weakness in youth is that you have limited wisdom have the unknown. Having a wise upper management fill in the gaps unwise youth and prepare them for elite competition is the whole point of drafting prospects. If upper management is not an expert in this area, they shouldn't be in the field of drafting prospect who lack wisdom about what they could be.
A professional organization who has been existence for decades should be experts in their particular field. You would expert the washington wizards who have been in arena of professional basketball for nearly 60 years to be in 99th percentile as far as understanding he lifecycle of developing a raw athletic player into a refined professional basketball player.
AGain the problem is grunfeldian culture. this culture drafts raw prospects with potential and then tells that potential, you figure out what you need to do become elite, and leave to chance a player's longterm value. this is wasting company assets. to get a lottery pick, fans suffer a year worth of losing. Teh reward for suffering is that we get hope in young prospect that with the right training will allow the fans to experience the joy of winning. the problem is that this organization reduces the possibility of that young prospect ability to provide future joy for the fans because they refuse to take responsibility for ensuring that the prospect brings joy to the fans.
In the end, the fans lose with grunfeldian cuture because grunfeld gets paid, the young prospect who is told to develop himself still gets paid whether he improves or not, and the fans continue to suffer season after season.
What's the common denominator with all young prospects in grunfeldian era, none of them, not one single prospect has ever....significantly improved their off hand speed, and as an extension, their ability to control the basketball against defensive pressure ....and as an extension, significantly improve their ability to draw fouls leading to wins.
Improving handspeed has never been part of Grunfeldian culture and is the single most important skill for an offensive player to become an expert at if he is to be considered to be elite offensively. LEONSIS has to make improvement of this skill in young players a pillar in the new Leonsis ERA.

[Saqs]

Cant argue with the absolute suck factor of Vesley so far. He's the absolute dud of the 2011 draft and that's even more terribad considering just how weak that draft was.