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Our Projected Depth Chart

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Post#391 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:55 pm by payitforward

hands11 wrote:Come on

Pargo over Mack and
Barron over Cook

Hardly qualify as terrible.

By which you mean that the delta between the better two and the worse two who were kept isn't meaningful over the small number of minutes you think they'll play. Ok, I understand what you mean.

Only, if you can't make the easy decisions, how you going to make the hard ones? Of course, you're still loving the Okafor/Ariza acquisition.

Once again, 16 players picked after Mack in '11 are on nba teams. Pretty much all of them better teams than the Wizards.

Once again, Mack clearly outplayed Pargo in pre-season, and Barron played in a way that shouldn't get him onto any NBA roster, while Cook wasn't bad.

Tell me, what would it take for you to actually think that Ernie Grunfield made a mistake as a GM? Would he have to trade for someone who actually was dead? How about if he picked a guy in the draft who actually plays in the paralympics?

Would either of those be enough?
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Post#392 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:13 pm by montestewart

payitforward wrote:Tell me, what would it take for you to actually think that Ernie Grunfield made a mistake as a GM? Would he have to trade for someone who actually was dead? How about if he picked a guy in the draft who actually plays in the paralympics?

OK, so he's dead, but really, it was a 2nd round pick. Worth a shot, right? Even if it turns out he'd been shot. He was going to be riding pine anyway, so what does it matter if that pine has a lid on it? Really people, you're making a big deal over nothing.
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Post#393 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:34 pm by hands11

payitforward wrote:
hands11 wrote:Come on

Pargo over Mack and
Barron over Cook

Hardly qualify as terrible.

By which you mean that the delta between the better two and the worse two who were kept isn't meaningful over the small number of minutes you think they'll play. Ok, I understand what you mean.

Only, if you can't make the easy decisions, how you going to make the hard ones? Of course, you're still loving the Okafor/Ariza acquisition.

Once again, 16 players picked after Mack in '11 are on nba teams. Pretty much all of them better teams than the Wizards.

Once again, Mack clearly outplayed Pargo in pre-season, and Barron played in a way that shouldn't get him onto any NBA roster, while Cook wasn't bad.

Tell me, what would it take for you to actually think that Ernie Grunfield made a mistake as a GM? Would he have to trade for someone who actually was dead? How about if he picked a guy in the draft who actually plays in the paralympics?

Would either of those be enough?


I never said that.

But I did read between the lines and predict that Ted/EG would trade Lewis for one or more players. Why ? Ted said as much. They were going to amnesty Dray if they couldnt move him and Ted wasn't going to eat all the Lewis money on top of that. Is that what I would have done. No. But its not my money. But I can understand not waning to spend 20 + Mil on players you don't have. Specially after doing it on Gil and then Lewis.

As for who I wanted instead of Mack, I wanted them to take a chance on Jerome Tyler. I said that several times. I wanted them to keep Livingston. I wanted them to keep Mason. And everyone wanted James back. But no NBA team signed him for what he wanted.

I did want Beal ever since I saw him first interviewed back when he was ranked like 20th in the draft so I'm happy they landed him.

I did hate an Abe owned team. Or a EFJ coached team. So while everything hasn't gone as I would have done it, I like the Ted/EG/Randy front office better then anything since Nash/Lynam. I like that they did a hard reboot. I agree with them moving McGee, Nick and Dray when they did and I pulled for each and everyone of them when other didn't. So I'm net positive compared to what I have been rooting for in the past with hope for even better in the future. I see a young group with stop gap vets. I see what may be a very pleasant surprise find in Webster. I see a solid young SG in Beal and great finds in Booker and Kevin. Singleton may still even pane out. Wall could still end up a total stud and Ves still shows promise.

Look, there will always be players that front offices miss on every year. Look where Nash was taken. Look at Tony Parker, Carlos Boozer, Kyle Korver, etc.

But go year by year from 2000 till today. The vast majority of 2nd round picks don't make it. Actually the Wiz have done ok hitting on a few second round players who have stuck in the league with guys like Blatche, Steve Blake, and Dom Mac. Thing with these second rounders is, they rarely stay in one place or hit with their first team.
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Post#394 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:02 pm by montestewart

Hands, a lot of people wanted Beal. Regardless, going back to 11/26/2010, it looks like DraftExpress never had him ranked lower than 11th. When was it that he was ranked 20th, when you presciently bucked the experts and started Bealmania, charmed by an interview ?
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Post#395 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sat Nov 3, 2012 8:46 pm by TheBigThree

Someone convince me this isn't the lineup we should be running with until Wall and Nene are back:

Crawford/Price/Pargo
Beal/Pargo/Cartier
Webster/(Ariza-Singleton)/Vesely
Booker/Vesely/Barron
Seraphin/Okafor/Barron

Crawford is, IMO, a better distributor than both our supposed PGs. He'll turn the ball over, but at least he takes chances and makes tough passes. Pargo is an extremely similar player and has played a combo guard roll is entire career, when Crawford needs a spell you put Price in there and let Pargo put up shots.

Could argue that Beal's bad play so far doesn't warrant keeping him in the starting lineup, but I think if you put him out there with a creative player like Crawford he'd start playing better.

Thoughts?
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Post#396 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sun Nov 4, 2012 3:07 pm by hands11

Ok, two games down and Kevin has returned already. He came off the bench but looked really good.

Here what is up next. They started.

Price, Beal, Trevor A, Booker and Okafor. Then when Kevin came in, Ves complimented him well.

Not a ball handler in that starting line up so no spacing for Beal. That makes it 4 on 5 right there. Then Trevor A is a defensive specialist with bad handles. No offense there. Booker is forced to force his game because he is the best talent on the floor. Okafor is just a defensive/rebounding center/pf. He doesn't have the offense to help that line up and he isn't long enough to be out there with Booker. So with nothing working, Price tries to be a ball handler which he isn't so he chucks up bad shots trying to be more then he is. Just a terrible line up. And the results prove it.

I like Randy a lot but I am very disappointed he actually tried that line up to start the game for two games in a row. But now he has Kevin S back so he has no excuses. Kevin has to start. Work it out based around what would compliment him being in there and balance the line ups. With Kevin starting, you might be able to still start Okafor but I would play no favorites. You could start Ves or even Barron with him. Any of those combination will work better then what we have seen. Kevin is the key. He actually has a post game and can hit the mid range.

Objectively, Crawford is the best ball handler, passer, driver on the team so play him at PG already. Stop being so stubborn. So there are 2 of 5 starters. Crawford and Kevin. Fill in the rest.

Crawford, Beal, Singleton, Kevin, Okafor works for me. That leaves back up of
Price, Martin, Webster, Booker, Ves or Price, Webster, Trevor A, Booker, Ves if you need more D ( and this line up allow the front office to save some face.)

But you have to keep Crawford out there for 42 minutes a game because he is the only true ball handler. And since Crawford is the one sending Beal the right message, I can see Crawford feeding the kid to get his confidence going. They may well be the some situation developing that Nene and Kevin have. I think that is what Beal needs. Crawford would be in his ear tell telling him to take the shot or take it to the hoop.

I didn't see that dynamic developing but I can see how that is what would be best for the team and best for Beal right now. I had been saying he needs to be out there with Crawford for handles and driving ability for spacing. Now I see he also needs to be out there with Crawford so Crawford can instill some toughness into Beal. Its actually a good pairing given what Beal needs to learn.
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Post#397 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sun Nov 4, 2012 8:23 pm by SUPERBALLMAN

TheBigThree wrote:Someone convince me this isn't the lineup we should be running with until Wall and Nene are back:

Crawford/Price/Pargo
Beal/Pargo/Cartier
Webster/(Ariza-Singleton)/Vesely
Booker/Vesely/Barron
Seraphin/Okafor/Barron

Crawford is, IMO, a better distributor than both our supposed PGs. He'll turn the ball over, but at least he takes chances and makes tough passes. Pargo is an extremely similar player and has played a combo guard roll is entire career, when Crawford needs a spell you put Price in there and let Pargo put up shots.

Could argue that Beal's bad play so far doesn't warrant keeping him in the starting lineup, but I think if you put him out there with a creative player like Crawford he'd start playing better.

Thoughts?




Well, 1st thing I do is move Webster into the starting lineup over Ariza. IMO this will help to balance the offense and help take attention off Beal. I'd still bring Crawford off the bench because that is ultimately his role on this team, especially when Wall returns. But I agree I'd like to see some Crawford and Beal out there together, at the expense of Price and Pargo.

I like Okafor to remain starting for veteran influence with the starters and to keep Seraphin from starting the game with quick fouls. I like Seraphin and Crawford off the bench for a boost, with Ariza (veteran stability and defense). That would be my top 8 right now. I'd be mixing in Singleton more as Booker's main backup at PF for some added shooting, and Vesely at 4/5 but mainly as 3rd center.
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Post#398 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Nov 8, 2012 12:07 am by hands11

Well, three game in and still.

Price, Beal, Trevor A, Booker and Okafor though Okafor only got 11 minutes and it was an over time game.

Randy wanted to stick by his players and not through them under the bus but there is no saving this line up. Time to change.

Crawford still hurting with a sprained ankle.

Nene and Wall going to visit the doctors for an update evaluation

Team is 0-3 but been in every game although every game started with terrible offense with that starting line up.

C Singleton played big.
Ves rebounded well defensively early.
Webster can hit when his feet are set.
Beal had his first good game.

Things are coming along but they really need Wall and Nene and they really need a PG. Livingston is sitting there for them to take. Maybe after the Wall evaluation they make the move. I sure hope so.

This team can be good. They just need to get Nene out there and get a pro level PG until Wall returns.
Or get Crawford healthy and start him at PG.

The defense is looking really good so far. They have that. Now they need a PG and a vet starting post player which they have.

My hopes. Nene checks out ok and they bring him back for the Mil game and we win.
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Post#399 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Nov 8, 2012 8:36 pm by SUPERBALLMAN

General thoughts regarding team and lineup after 3 games...

Encouraged how well they have played one of the better teams without 2 of their best players. On a side note, always kinda liked the Celtics, seeing the old dogs get it done, but how much more likable were they with Ray Allen?? Watching them with KG running his yap all game, Paul Pierce, and the annoying Rondo I found myself really hating this team almost as much as Miami! Man I really wanted the Wizards to pull that game out!

Gotta love the play of Seraphin, by far the brightest spot of the season so far.

Booker on the other hand looks to me like he's still not fully healthy. Hope his foot isn't more of a concern than we realize. Not any where close to his usual explosiveness and power. Chris Singleton has also been very good, really since the preseason and since moving to PF.

Martell Webster also has been a nice surprise, and picking him up is helping to make up for the disappointing play of Ariza.

I think Beal will eventually be good, and will benefit from Wall and Nene. Crawford is ideal in role of scorer off the bench. Price looks to be a good backup to Wall.

I'm seeing a pretty nice eventual lineup develop... Seraphin, Nene, Webster, Beal, Wall. A solid bench would be left with Okafor, Vesely, Booker, Singleton, Ariza, Martin, Crawford, Price, with Barron and Pargo as end of bench.

From last year... this team is much better defensively, more physical, tougher physically & mentally. It is much better in the half court and can still run with anyone, especially with Wall. We got some shooters (Beal, Webster), some low post scorers (Nene, Seraphin), bigs who can run (Vesely, Booker). I like the mix of youth and vets we have going. Like the depth.

I am in the minority, but I like what I see 3 games in.
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Post#400 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Nov 8, 2012 9:31 pm by SUPERBALLMAN

Also to mention... I find it very maddening that Nene played in the Olympics and has not been able to suit up for the Wizards. Obviously he wasn't at a point health-wise where he should of been playing, and it has damaged his ability to come back.

I understand the desire to play in the Olympics, but his 1st priority should be to Washington. Now he is resting his foot and healing. He should of been doing that all season. Is that the veteran leadership he's providing, that he puts himself before this team?
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Post#401 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Fri Nov 9, 2012 1:06 am by hands11

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Also to mention... I find it very maddening that Nene played in the Olympics and has not been able to suit up for the Wizards. Obviously he wasn't at a point health-wise where he should of been playing, and it has damaged his ability to come back.

I understand the desire to play in the Olympics, but his 1st priority should be to Washington. Now he is resting his foot and healing. He should of been doing that all season. Is that the veteran leadership he's providing, that he puts himself before this team?


Totally agree with both you.

Ted/EG may have actually assembled a pretty decent team with a young core.

As for Nene. That is the one thing he has done to date that I didn't like. Just one thing, but a big one.

But I like that Randy has him traveling with the team. It keeps them connected. Specially the way he and Kevin connect. And it should be a constant reminder to him of what his first obligation is. It can't be fun for Nene to be around all this and know that he can't help because he made a bad discussion over the summer. I know it was a hard decision to make. You want to play for your country. But sometimes we have to make tough unselfish decisions and set your priorities in the right order.

Hopefully we get good news tomorrow.
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Post#402 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Fri Nov 9, 2012 9:30 am by GhostsOfGil

Via TAI our starting line up is shooting an average of 29% on FGs with a plus/minus of minus- 32.3 per 48 minutes...
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Post#403 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Fri Nov 9, 2012 9:42 am by Spence

GhostsOfGil wrote:Via TAI our starting line up is shooting an average of 29% on FGs with a plus/minus of minus- 32.3 per 48 minutes...

That's horrible, but we've all seen it with our own eyes. I wonder what the Wiz could do if they didn't fall behind 17-4 in every game.
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Post#404 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:09 pm by hands11

Some of us have been calling for the Livingston addition for a while over the off season and since.

But I have been banging my head against the wall for it since see what a Price Pargo back court looked like. Randy wouldn't even play Crawford at PG until he was forced to last game when they made a 20 pt come back.

Sometimes thing don't happen when we want them to, but at least it happened. Should have been at least a game or two ago or even to start the season, but it did happen. I expected by keeping Pargo and Price over Mack that both were not going to stick but instead it was a place holder and easy to change during the season one it played out that it wouldn't work and someone better was available.

That someone better was Shaun.

New Roster the way I want to see it next game

Crawford, Livingston, Price ( use the Price ankle as an opportunity to see what Craw can do stating PG )
Beal, Martin, Webster ( Martin and Web are both spot up 3 pt shooter. Feet set )
Trevor A, Singleton
Kevin, Ves, Booker ( finding the right spot for Booker is tough right now. Maybe even some small ball center)
Okafor, Barron ( Barron has shown well at times. Give him a shot )

They can always roll Web to SF, Singleton to PF and Kevin to Center is needed.

New starters are Crawford and Kevin
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Post#405 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:07 pm by SUPERBALLMAN

Really, I'm not sure if any changes outside of Wall and Nene returning are going to have much effect.

I do like the Livingston signing. You gotta like our guard set up with Wall, Beal, Crawford, Price and Livingston. I mean that is a solid rotation.

Alot of calling for Seraphin chatter, but Okafor has played well also, and I'm not sure coming off the bench isn't better suited for Seraphin's development where he can play a bit looser and without as much pressure.

The forward spots are the trouble area IMO. Nene coming back would certainly help. Ariza has started to look more comfortable. Booker has been a bit disappointing to me, and Vesely has regressed.

Assuming Wall and Nene still out for the time being, I suppose I'd change things up a bit if only for the sake of change and to shake things up... I'd like to start Livingston at point for his true skill of running at team. With Livingston at point, he needs some shooters to distribute to, I'd like to stick with Beal starting at SG at least for now, move Webster to the starting spot at SF and Singleton at PF, with Seraphin at Center. 2nd unit would therefore be Okafor, Booker, Ariza, Crawford, Price.
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Post#406 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:13 am by hands11

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Really, I'm not sure if any changes outside of Wall and Nene returning are going to have much effect.

I do like the Livingston signing. You gotta like our guard set up with Wall, Beal, Crawford, Price and Livingston. I mean that is a solid rotation.

Alot of calling for Seraphin chatter, but Okafor has played well also, and I'm not sure coming off the bench isn't better suited for Seraphin's development where he can play a bit looser and without as much pressure.

The forward spots are the trouble area IMO. Nene coming back would certainly help. Ariza has started to look more comfortable. Booker has been a bit disappointing to me, and Vesely has regressed.

Assuming Wall and Nene still out for the time being, I suppose I'd change things up a bit if only for the sake of change and to shake things up... I'd like to start Livingston at point for his true skill of running at team. With Livingston at point, he needs some shooters to distribute to, I'd like to stick with Beal starting at SG at least for now, move Webster to the starting spot at SF and Singleton at PF, with Seraphin at Center. 2nd unit would therefore be Okafor, Booker, Ariza, Crawford, Price.


I don't think Ves has really regressed as much as the teams transition game has without Wall. Ves is a transition court player. He hasn't developed a good half court game yet. And while I think he will shoot better this year, he isn't going to be the one to develop him outside game while the team has no flow. That isn't Ves. He would be the last one to play hero ball.

With better PG play, the team will play better. They will get out in transition more. Once the game start flowing, Ves will start to show his game again.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html
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Post#407 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:36 pm by hands11

This should be there line ups and rotation.

Crawford/Livingston/Price
Webster/Beal/Martin/Price
Trevor A/Singleton/Webster - Singleton should be given a chance with Webster fighting to push in out.
Vesely/Booker/Singleton
Okafor/Kevin/Barron

That's 13

If they do that, they will start the win some games.

Once Wall and Nene return.

This should be there line ups and rotation.

Wall/Livingston
Crawford/Beal/Webster/Martin
Trevor A/Singleton/Webster
Vesely/Nene/Booker/Singleton - start Ves with Nene off the bench until fully healthy.
Okafor/Kevin

That is 13 with

Barron and Price inactive.

Once Nene is healthy, put him at center and move Kevin to back up PF and let him fight it out.

Stop wasting time on Price. He isn't even going to be active once they bring Wall and Nene back. They have wasted way to much time on this marginal player who isn't even a clear back up.

Once healthy, they are going to be a 45% to 50% team.

Kevin needs to show the will be a bull in the post. If not, start looking for a player that will.

They can still move forward from that they have. They will need to evaluate and add the right pieces but they can do it.

They are set at PG finally. They need to resign Livingston.
They have pieces at SG that can work out. Beal is young. Maybe upgrade at the Martin level if needed.
Trevor A is a place holder at SF until they find a true stud. This should be the main focus.
They have pieces at PF and Center but should keep adding with an eye on the future.

It may look like ass right now but it really isn't. Wall and Nene retuning will get them back on course.
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Post#408 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:34 pm by hands11

The come back line up was

Livingston
Beal
Singleton
Booker
Barron

Imagine that. What a shock. Randy stumbled into one of the line ups that would work.
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Post#409 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:25 pm by SUPERBALLMAN

hands11 wrote:The come back line up was

Livingston
Beal
Singleton
Booker
Barron

Imagine that. What a shock. Randy stumbled into one of the line ups that would work.




I haven't watched the past 2 games as closely as I usually do, but I don't recall seeing Webster in either of them. Is he hurt, or has he played his way out of the rotation ??
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Post#410 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:39 pm by hands11

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
hands11 wrote:The come back line up was

Livingston
Beal
Singleton
Booker
Barron

Imagine that. What a shock. Randy stumbled into one of the line ups that would work.




I haven't watched the past 2 games as closely as I usually do, but I don't recall seeing Webster in either of them. Is he hurt, or has he played his way out of the rotation ??


He hasn't found his place on the team yet. No spacing isn't helping.

Right now his best skill I have seen is hitting a spot up long ball with his feet set. Basically Martin with more heart and slightly better handles. He played some last game but wasn't effective. Once the team settles down, he should be able to find a role as a 3 ball shooting SG maybe SF that can drive with more open lanes and who can get out in transition.

He just isn't good enough to lead a team, but he is good enough to pitch in once the team doesnt have totally F'd up crap rotations.
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