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Our Projected Depth Chart

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Post#436 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sat Dec 8, 2012 11:56 pm by hands11

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:Crawford/Livingston
Beal/Webster
Singleton/Martin
Nene/Kevin
Okafor/Ves/Barron or Barron/Ves or start either over Okafor. I wouldn't be upset at all.

No need to play Vesely or Barron. Just go with a 9-man rotation. 4 bigs and 5 smalls. The bigs are Nene, Okafor, Seraphin and Singleton. The smalls are Livingston, Crawford, Beal, Webster and Martin.


Have you seen Okafors production lately ?

Unless playing him with better line ups helps that, you are talking effectively 3 bigs and 5 smalls.

I had him in there starting to give him a chance but I'm not counting on him for anything.

I expect we will see one or both of Ves and Barron on the floor now because Crawford needs to go to PG probably most of his minutes on the floor which pulls Webster or Martin up to SG which pulls Singleton up to SF.
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Post#437 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sun Dec 9, 2012 1:04 am by nate33

hands11 wrote:Have you seen Okafors production lately ?

Yes. He is still posting the 3rd highest PER on the team (albeit that it somewhat inflated with his volume shooting on low efficiency). I think Okafor is still a reasonably competent player, he just can't be asked to be any kind of primary or even secondary offensive option. He needs to play alongside Nene or Seraphin; not alongside Singleton.

hands11 wrote:Unless playing him with better line ups helps that, you are talking effectively 3 bigs and 5 smalls.

Not sure what you are saying here. By "bigs", I mean PF's and C's. I would rotate 4 players at those two spots: Nene, Seraphin, Okafor and Singleton. I would make sure that one of Nene or Seraphin is on the floor at all times. Other than that, they're basically interchangeable. I figure Nene gets about 24 minutes at C and Okafor gets the other 24 (assuming we're still capping Nene's minutes). Seraphin gets about 28 minutes at PF with Singleton getting 20 (and this would vary on a game-by-game basis depending on matchups).

I would rotate 5 players at the PG, SG and SF spots: Livingston, Crawford, Beal, Webster and Martin.
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Post#438 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sun Dec 9, 2012 1:29 am by hands11

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:Have you seen Okafors production lately ?

Yes. He is still posting the 3rd highest PER on the team (albeit that it somewhat inflated with his volume shooting on low efficiency). I think Okafor is still a reasonably competent player, he just can't be asked to be any kind of primary or even secondary offensive option. He needs to play alongside Nene or Seraphin; not alongside Singleton.

hands11 wrote:Unless playing him with better line ups helps that, you are talking effectively 3 bigs and 5 smalls.

Not sure what you are saying here. By "bigs", I mean PF's and C's. I would rotate 4 players at those two spots: Nene, Seraphin, Okafor and Singleton. I would make sure that one of Nene or Seraphin is on the floor at all times. Other than that, they're basically interchangeable. I figure Nene gets about 24 minutes at C and Okafor gets the other 24 (assuming we're still capping Nene's minutes). Seraphin gets about 28 minutes at PF with Singleton getting 20 (and this would vary on a game-by-game basis depending on matchups).

I would rotate 5 players at the PG, SG and SF spots: Livingston, Crawford, Beal, Webster and Martin.


Since I have been suggesting this kind of stuff for a while now, I get what you are writing and I think I responded clearly. Hopefully Okafor does better with better players out there... just not counting on it. And without him, you are down to 3 bigs. Nene, Kevin and Singleton. That is why I listed Barron and Ves where I did in my rotations.

As for your 5 smalls. We will see. Just not sure those 5 can cover PG, SG and SF. I think Singleton is going to have to play some SF. A lot will depend on how well Livingston plays and he hasn't proven to be consistent yet. If he can't, Crawford is playing exclusively at PG to fill the whole, which mean you need to fill the hole at SG. Not counting on Beal doing that alone. That takes a player away from SF which pulls Singleton up there.

Ok. I already wrote this.

We will see.
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Post#439 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sun Dec 9, 2012 10:28 pm by hands11

hands11 wrote:Vet PG was next on my list but I'm not sure it is going to happen just yet. They have other things to work out. And Dray still takes a slot until moved.

I wouldn't be upset if Mack wasn't brought back and they added a vet PG, but I don't think they will to cut him so soon. It would be nice to have a slot open. It will depend on how much they want to keep players like Martin around this year.

James Singleton isnt getting a starting or probably even a prime back up slot anywhere that I can see so he has a decision to make. Does he want to be in the NBA and a part of this team or not. He would be a nice vet to bring back.

Mason is clearly on the list also

I think they wait on adding a vet PG until after the Beal gains some more experience and they figure out a few things like Dray, how long Okafor will be here, and what they want do with Crawford and maybe C Singleton. So this is an interim roster with lots of young players still that still needs evaluated before they start trimming it. I think they try to keep things somewhat flexible for now. They brought in 3 new faces so at this point I think they will add with vet familiar faces.

PG Wall, Mack
SG Crawford, Beal, Mason
SF Ariza, Singleton, James Singleton
PF Nene, Booker, Vesely
C Okafor, Seraphin, Dray

That 14 right there. 1 slot open. I could see different players inactive at different times depending on need. Crawford can back up at some PG so eventually as Beal shows he is ready, they can make Mack inactive unless he shows a lot more then he did last year. James, Mason or Dray can get made inactive until then.

Mo is moving into the front office. He is coaching the summer team.

So eventually I could see it leading to this.

PG Wall, Crawford
SG Beal, Mason
SF Ariza, Singleton, James Singleton
PF Nene, Booker, Vesely
C Okafor, Seraphin, Dray

Inactive. Mack and Martin if they sign all 15. Obviously Crawford could play some 2 as well.

Randy has his work cut out figuring out who will start and who will play.


Even without considering all the different draft picks and moves they could have made in the past, they could have made something so much better out of the direction they started down. Even if they signed TA and Okafor. It was all right there for them to do.

Crawford should have always been considered their best PG option with Wall down. Mason would have been a great teacher for Beal. And using the amnesty on Dray this year was just stupid. They had to have seen Nene was injured in the Olympics and if they had kept up with him at all, they had to know he wouldn't be ready. They wasted way to much time looking at Price and Pargo at PG and not nearly enough looking at Crawford who is a proven legit NBA baller. Sure, he needed more work, but he had already proven he was legit. All they needed was one PG to challenge Mack and that was Price. Pargo should have never even been in the picture.

They could have started the year.

PG Crawford plus Mack or Price
SG Mason, Beal, Martin ( Mason wanted to be here. And if not Mason, they could have still added Webster)
SF Ariza, Singleton, James Singleton
PF Booker, Vesely
C Okafor, Dray

Then when Kevin returned

PG Crawford plus Mack or Price
SG Mason(or Webster), Beal, Martin
SF Ariza, Singleton, James Singleton
PF Booker, Kevin, Vesely
C Okafor, Dray

Then Booker gets injured. We all know he would right.


PG Crawford plus Mack or Price
SG Mason(or Webster), Beal, Martin
SF Ariza, Singleton
PF Kevin, Vesely, James Singleton
C Okafor, Dray

Nene probably would have stayed resting longer and Dray would be raising his value to either stay or get traded. Not sure if Livingston would have been added or not but if they kept Price over Mack, they would be signing Livingston right now. Ves would probably have never gotten benched because Crawford would have made better use of him and they would have been running with better players like James Singleton. But even if Ves did still struggle, you have James Singleton in the wings to play PF. Beal should have never have started from day one. The kid should have been brought along.

So even with all the injuries, we could have

PG Crawford, (Livingston or Mack)
SG Mason(or Webster), Beal
SF Singleton, Martin
PF Kevin, James Singleton, Ves
C Dray, Nene, Okafor

With Booker, Trevor A and Wall injured.

No doubt they would have had a much better record and they would be sitting pretty to make trades involving Dray, Booker, Okafor and any other piece they wanted to package.

This team should have been loaded with depth and trade pieces. Instead, we are paying Dray for 3 years to not play here and he isn't a trade asset anymore. Plus, we are stuck starting Okafor and have no idea how to trade him off the team. We could be talking Dray and Okafor deals for something we want to keep. Or keep them both for the year and win some Fing games. Plus we don't have James Singleton. :roll:

So frustrating.
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Post#440 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:18 am by NiqtheAntiq

James or Chris Singleton?
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Post#441 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:06 pm by hands11

Line up update.

Livingston and Barron out, Mack in

Crawford/Mack
Beal/Martin
Webster/Singleton
Nene/Ves
Okafor/Kevin

Wall, Price, Trevor A, Booker still injured.

Trevor A expect back soon.
Booker update should be coming shortly. He just got another shot in his knee
Price out with a finger till mid January
Wall just got another shot and we should be hearing something soon as he start to ramp up workouts.

Whatever clutter they had for minutes is not an issue right now. There should be minutes for Kevin, Ves and Singleton is they prove they should get them.

I think the time down in the DL is going to work out well for Mack. I don't think his game as a PG will be tons better but I do expect him to shot better from the outside and to shoot with more confidence and that is something the team needs right now at the back up PG. He is going to help because Livingston ended up being a complete dude. Couldn't hit anything from outside.

Mack has about a month to show what he has. Then Price and hopefully Wall return. Its not a huge move but it is a good move.

“Big time,” Mack said when asked if the experience has helped him. “I’ve been playing 40-plus minutes, figuring out how to get guys in the right situations, when to be aggressive, when not to be aggressive. I think it was good for me. I made a lot of strides and I think each month, I’ve been getting better and better.”
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Post#442 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:27 am by nate33

hands11 wrote:Line up update.

Livingston and Barron out, Mack in

Crawford/Mack
Beal/Martin
Webster/Singleton
Nene/Ves
Okafor/Kevin

Thanks, hands11.

I had no idea what would happen with Mack replacing Livingston. Fortunately, we have you around to figure this stuff out for us.
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Post#443 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:21 am by hands11

Merry Christmas Nate.

Or whatever Holiday you are celebrating.
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Post#444 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:23 pm by MikeTheKid

Ok guys now that everyone is on the court and some are still getting healthy, what are your rotations? I would like Witt to really start to tightening the rotation a bit, 11-12 guys should be reduced to 9-10 guys:

Once Healthy

Wall (32-36)/Price (12-16)
Beal (30)/Crawford (18)
Webster (27-30)/Ariza (18-21) (Locked at SF)
Nene (28-32)/Booker (16-20)
Okafor (25-28)/Seraphin (20-23)

I would incorporate Ves, CSing and Temple sparingly with mins or if we play a big lineup Temple gets in
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Post#445 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:26 pm by nate33

10-player rotation:

Wall/Price
Beal/Crawford
Webster/Ariza
Nene/Booker
Okafor/Seraphin

Vesely and Temple would only see minutes if there was an injury, foul trouble, or garbage time.
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Post#446 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:11 pm by hands11

1/23/13

Wall still not starting. Hopefully next home game.
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Post#447 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:08 am by Scraptor

Hey guys, what's the plan with your vets? Are you going to keep Nene/Okafor/Ariza? You seem like a pretty solid team with Wall back.
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Post#448 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:57 am by hands11

Randy is having problems figuring out rotations.

The last 3 games Kevin has been pretty bad and Randy has clearly turned to Booker to help with toughness and rebounding but a Kevin S/Booker front court is nothing I would make a regular rotation out of. Not sure if there is a correlation but Kevin has not played well with Booker the last three games. 4 games ago he did. 5 games ago he played well with Ves.

Booker and Ves should be a fluid situation. If Kevin and Booker isn't working and the ball isn't moving so Kevin isn't getting good looks, put Ves in. He adds height and passing. Some nights one will be better then the other. Its not something you can make a hard rotation out of. You have to know which of the two matches up best with the other team that night. Since Kevin can score and has upside, he should be the constant. From there, you make a call on which of Ves or Booker to go with first and be quick to read how it is working then sub in the other if it isn't. At this point given the roster, neither Booker or Ves should be slotted as first PF off the bench. Its call coaching. Neither is the 6th man much come in. Actually, for now, I would go with Ves first and bring Booker in as the energy banger.

Or if you don't like those combinations, you can play Booker with Nene so Oakfor is available to pair with Kevin. Point is, there are better ways to do this then what Randy is doing.

Randy seems to get stuck on one thing or another.
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Post#449 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:08 am by nate33

hands11 wrote:Randy is having problem figuring out rotations.

The last 3 games Kevin has been pretty bad and Randy has clearly turned to Booker to help with toughness and rebounding but a Kevin S/Booker front court is nothing I would make a regular rotation out of. Not sure if there is a correlation but Kevin has not played well with Booker the last three games. 4 games ago he did. 5 games ago he played well with Ves.

Booker and Ves should be a fluid situation. If Kevin and Booker isn't working and the ball isn't moving and Kevin isn't gettting good looks, put Ves in. He adds height and passing. Some night one will be better then the other. Its not something you can make a hard rotation out of. You have to know which of the two matches up best with the other team that night. Since Kevin can score and has upside, he should be the constant. From there, you make a call on which of Ves or Booker to go with first and be quick to read how it is working then sub in the other if it isn't. At this point given the roster, neither Booker or Ves should be slots as first PF off the bench. Its call coaching.

Randy seems to get stuck on one thing or another.

It's important to note that Booker just recently got back from injury and he's rusty so it's difficult to make a long term evaluation on Booker's effectiveness. Also, I think a coach has to find a balance between a stable rotation and situation substitutions. Randy's MO has been to find a rotation and stick with it for at least 5 games before tweaking it. I don't have a problem with this, it gives the players confidence that they won't get yanked for the smallest mistake.

I think now, 7 games into Wall's return, it's time to tweak the rotations - specifically to move Wall into the starting lineup permanently, but I wouldn't do much with the rest of the rotation. I'd continue to go with Booker at backup PF and continue to bench Vesely for a few more games. If Booker doesn't shake the cobwebs off in another 5 games or so, then maybe I'd reevaluate.
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Post#450 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:23 am by hands11

I don't have a problem with that as a general approach to line ups, but at the same time, that shouldn't get in your way when it comes to game time coaching. More specifically, I wouldn't sit by and watch a line up suck when I had other options to try. I'm not losing a game over being stuck in my preferred approach to things.

He had the balls enough to have Crawford in late last game for the win over Beal.

There is no reason he should stick with Booker exclusively at the cost of not trying Ves at all. Specially when you are talking about a second unit that has been lead by Wall who wants to run and Ves is a target Wall finds for easy dunks.

The last two games have been baffling regarding what Randy does.
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Post#451 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:53 am by nate33

hands11 wrote:I don't have a problem with that as a general approach to line ups, but at the same time, that shouldn't get in your way when it comes to game time coaching. More specifically, I wouldn't sit by and watch a line up suck when I had other options to try. I'm not losing a game over being stuck in my preferred approach to things.

He had the balls enough to have Crawford in late last game for the win over Beal.

There is no reason he should stick with Booker exclusively at the cost of not trying Ves at all. Specially when you are talking about a second unit that has been lead by Wall who wants to run and Ves is a target Wall finds for easy dunks.

The last two games have been baffling regarding what Randy does.

It's easy to say this in hindsight, but if Booker happened to play better in the 2nd half, you would be praising Randy for sticking with Booker (indeed, in the 2nd half, the 2nd unit with Booker were the ones who spearheaded that 20-2 run). The bottom line is that you don't know if a player who is playing badly is going to continue to play badly on his second stint. If you get into the habit of not giving someone a second run just because they played poorly in the first half, you are going to erode the confidence of that player.

The Booker/Vesely situation is different from the Beal/Crawford situation. There's a difference between benching a player for playing badly and riding a hot hand. If Crawford is lighting it up in the 2nd unit, it's fine to leave Beal on the bench a little longer and stick with Crawford. The same goes for Ariza and Seraphin. If they are playing well early in the 4th quarter, Randy often rides them out for the rest of the game rather than bringing back Webster or Okafor.
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Post#452 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:06 pm by hands11

Not trying to get into an argument.

Just voicing my view and frustration.

I think Randy was being to rigid and I felt that way last game and the game before so it isn't hind sight. I thought that way during the game. I was also hoping he didn't go back to Nene to end last game because I strongly felt he would be no different then he was earlier in the game. Just wasn't his night.

Ves should have been given a chance when they stalled with Kevin and Booker. Both were not playing well together. Booker did at least rebound the ball. I felt the offense was disorganized and the ball wasn't moving. If nothing else, Ves moves the ball. Certainly don't have to worry about him taking bad shots.

Hopefully this stuff gets worked out when Wall returns to the starting line up. And hopefully Beal finds his 3 ball again. He has had a rough last two games.
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Post#453 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:06 pm by nate33

hands11 wrote:Not trying to get into an argument.

Just voicing my view and frustration.

I think Randy was being to rigid and I felt that way last game and the game before so it isn't hind sight. I thought that way during the game. I was also hoping he didn't go back to Nene to end last game because I strongly felt he would be no different then he was earlier in the game. Just wasn't his night.

Ves should have been given a chance when they stalled with Kevin and Booker. Both were not playing well together. Booker did at least rebound the ball. I felt the offense was disorganized and the ball wasn't moving. If nothing else, Ves moves the ball. Certainly don't have to worry about him taking bad shots.

Hopefully this stuff gets worked out when Wall returns to the starting line up. And hopefully Beal finds his 3 ball again. He has had a rough last two games.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to argue either. It's just that I get frustrated with the constant second-guessing of any of our coaches as if we know more than these guys. In general, the criticisms are made with 20/20 hindsight. If a decision made by Randy didn't work, he gets blamed for being wrong. That analysis assumes an unknowable fact: that the alternative choice would have been better, and also that it would have been sufficiently better to impact the outcome of the game. After all, every game has only 1 winner and 1 loser. All losses are not coaching errors.
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Post#454 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:39 pm by dobrojim

It's just that I get frustrated with the constant second-guessing of any of our coaches as if we know more than these guys.


I can relate.

What I get frustrated with is how every injury is somehow the fault
of our trainers and medical staff. NO ONE here on realGM has access
to the kind of information that would allow them to make INFORMED
criticisms of the sort we have routinely seen.

So far, BIG knock on wood, it appears our staff MAY have handled
the Wall situation totally correct. Yet there is a deafening silence
on the board commenting on that. Maybe being Wizards fans everyone
is holding their collective breath.

And OK all you Bud Lite fans who think it's only weird if it doesn't work
(how stupid is that?), it'll totally be my fault if Wall blows out his knee Friday night
(or anytime before the end of the season).
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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Post#455 Re: Our Projected Depth Chart
Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:28 pm by hands11

nate33 wrote:
hands11 wrote:Not trying to get into an argument.

Just voicing my view and frustration.

I think Randy was being to rigid and I felt that way last game and the game before so it isn't hind sight. I thought that way during the game. I was also hoping he didn't go back to Nene to end last game because I strongly felt he would be no different then he was earlier in the game. Just wasn't his night.

Ves should have been given a chance when they stalled with Kevin and Booker. Both were not playing well together. Booker did at least rebound the ball. I felt the offense was disorganized and the ball wasn't moving. If nothing else, Ves moves the ball. Certainly don't have to worry about him taking bad shots.

Hopefully this stuff gets worked out when Wall returns to the starting line up. And hopefully Beal finds his 3 ball again. He has had a rough last two games.

Fair enough. I'm not trying to argue either. It's just that I get frustrated with the constant second-guessing of any of our coaches as if we know more than these guys. In general, the criticisms are made with 20/20 hindsight. If a decision made by Randy didn't work, he gets blamed for being wrong. That analysis assumes an unknowable fact: that the alternative choice would have been better, and also that it would have been sufficiently better to impact the outcome of the game. After all, every game has only 1 winner and 1 loser. All losses are not coaching errors.


And it being an unknowable fact is part of the frustration. Had he at least tried it, then we would know. On the other hand, when you see something not working and you see what you feel is an reasonable alternate solution and it isn't even tried, that gets frustrating. Just like people are frustrated we didn't see enough Beal and Wall. For the last two games I felt Ves should have been put in the game and it didn't happen.

On the other hand, I completely agree not using him in the LAC game. I could just tell that was a bad match up the way the game was being played. But in the Portland and Utah games, I think he should have been tried.

Just my view. Something tells me he could have helped move the ball around and spread the floor and get out on some breaks with Wall. But we will never know since it wasn't tried for even 1 minute.
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