The Amazingly Sucky March and April John Wall thread

[montestewart]

Just looking over Wall complete game log.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... /john-wall

Look at the games in which we have won. We have won 7 of 12 games when he didnt shoot that much or score that much. 12 or less shots and 12 or less pts.

Using the bolded criteria, the team has actually won 5 of 11 (.455%) games this season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=pts

Apply the same criteria to last season, and the team won only 2 of 13 (.154%) games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=pts

Wall has clearly created a 400 percentage point improvement in winning percentage since last year.

Beat the batter, Satan, with your feeble whisk. Our cake will only rise ever higher.

[hands11]

Just looking over Wall complete game log.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... /john-wall

Look at the games in which we have won. We have won 7 of 12 games when he didnt shoot that much or score that much. 12 or less shots and 12 or less pts.

I made that point a while back in another thread. I said there was a correlation between Wall having a lower usage rate and team success. I totally believe that to be the case.

Wall led the team in FGA vs NJ. A guaranteed recipe for failure.

1 other game POR, he shot 10-14 with 8-9 FTA and scored 29 in a win.

The other 4 games were he shot and scored more were

OKC 6-17 13-14 FT 25pts
TOR 10-18 11-14 FT 31pts
CLE 8-17 8-10 FT 24pts
NO 11-16 4-4FT 26 pts

So that is 7 games where he shot 12 or so shots, and didnt score a lot .. they won.
1 game was a low shooting but high scoring game for a total of 8 wins on low shooting.
4 games of high shooting/high scoring were wins

So that is 8 wins with low shooting vs 4 wins with high shooting.

In all of 8 Nene games, Nene never shot more then 13 times. They were 2-6. Also, in all of those games, no team scored more then 95 with 2 games under 80 and 5 games less then 90.

In those 8 Nene games Wall had some poor shooting games 1-10, 5-17, 6-17. All loses.

The 8 Nene games also coincided with Crawford scoring 20 pts a game on 63-135. 67.5 would have been 50% shooting so he was in 47% range.

In the two wins that Nene and Wall did played together, Wall was

NJ 5-13 2-2FT 8ast 12pts Crawford was 7-13 8-10FT 23 pts
PHI 4-12 1-1FT 6ast 9pts Crawford was 7-17 2-2FT 17 pts

What conclusion can you draw? Small sample size for sure but it looks like Nene is a huge difference maker. They played better D. Crawford was way more effective. And Wall has 3 really poor games 2 of which he shot 17 times.

[hands11]

Its looks like Crawford plays well with him on the court. It also looks like Wall doesn't need to shoot a lot for the Wiz to win. He doesn't even need to get to the line a lot with the current team roster.

A Nene type team is not following the Chicago model. Nene is better then their front court players. Wall would not be D Rose on a team with Nene.

So what kind of PG does he need to be given Nene is here at least 4 more years ?
Can he be that kind of PG ?
Is that kind of PG worth #1 or is there more value in moving him for a more suitable PG and maybe some assists. Or do you keep him and bring in a vet to teach him so he is ready in a few years ?

Doesn't seem like Crawford is effecting the team wins in any bad way. His play with Nene helped them win. But with Nene, Wall shooting or scoring was less needed. Nene is what changes the style of play. They are not so much a running team which is when Wall puts up better numbers. Its Nene that hurt Walls numbers, not Crawford.

Nene showing up was also the start of KS playing a lot better which he has continued in his absence.

So people talking about moving Crawford for a less ball dominate SG may be missing the make up of this team. Crawford or not, this team is very different with Nene and in a good way. But that style is not something that matches with Walls style. So this idea of adding assets they fit with Walls style and building around Wall isnt the solution so much as Wall changing his game to match what works for the team with Nene on the floor. I say they build around Nene more then they build around Wall.

Its looking more and more like this is Nene's team more then Walls but that hasn't worked it way through the publics mind because Nene has only played 8 games. If they add another quality vet like Nene, that is going to be even more so.

Can Wall excel on a team that he isn't the main focus ? Can his ego handle that or will he try to force his game so he is reliant? Wall is young so he could still be a great long term asset, but he needs to earn his way there. Right now, for them to win, they don't need him to be dominate, they just need him to run the show and play smart. Short term, they would be better off picking up Nash and letting Wall back him up while he learns the game and expands his skills. In two years, Wall would be a lot better play and with Nash and Nene, the Wizards would instantly be better and finally have a core or quality smart vets to set the tone and plug the younger players into. I would even try to add Ray Allen for those two years.

That would be a huge move to make, but I think it would be best for Wall and the team both short term and longer term. In two years, Wall would be ready to lead a team and the entire franchise would have a different tone about it. Wall and the other young players would get playoff experience which they will need in order to grow relevant skills. Right now Wll isn't mentally or skills ready to lead the there and it is his style that doesn't fit.

[Upper Decker]

Wall may blossom into a better player than he is now, but honestly I feel completely cheated with him as this 'franchise changing PG'. He's just not that, he's not a franchise changer and honestly he's going to need a tremendous amount of development even to become as impactful as Gilbert was during his time here.

Here's what Chad Ford wrote about him prior to the draft...

Wall isn't super-athletic -- he's extraterrestrially athletic. He's been compared to Derrick Rose, and truthfully, he's even more explosive. While Wall doesn't have Rose's steadiness on or off the court, when you turn him loose, he's virtually impossible to guard. Wall has the inside track on the No. 1 pick right now. Point guards with his physical abilities come along only two or three times a decade.

Would any self-respecting NBA fan even attempt to compare Wall to Derrick Rose? Wall still has great physical abilities, but he hasn't developed one bit since he entered college. Sure he had a hot stretch and shot more accurately in February, but did his form really improve? It's still slow and awkward. He still jumps to pass, he still drives the lane with seemingly no thoughts of what he'll do once he gets there, it still seems like he has no idea how to run a half-court offense, he still constantly defers to Crawford in nearly every half-court set.

I guess we have no option other than hope he just mentally gets it because Washington will never get equal value in a trade. It's incredibly frustrating because I feel like Wall's idea of working on his game is playing in AAU type events. Remember when the season started, Wall just tried to out-speed his guy but seems completely lost when he was actually defended. He wasn't being guarded in the Pro-Am Summer League Circuit and didn't know how to react for the first month and a half.

I don't feel like Wall works on his game. He's too casual in developing his skills. If he worked hard his shot would be better and he'd know how to operate the offense. Unless he really shows interest in developing he'll just be one of the many Wizards in this era that wasted phenomenal talent because poor work ethic.

[Knighthonor]

It's kind of funny, because I believe if Davis comes here, he is going to suck on John Wall level.

The Wizards are in another 10 year slump.

Wizards need some magic, cause his Wand and Spell book is broken.

He need to learn to naturally cast spells with his bare hands.

If you know what I mean by this metaphor

[Knighthonor]

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/whats ... 250143814/

Lol

[dangermouse]

What is going on in those pictures?

Is that his Mrs.?

John.................................

[queridiculo]

Your metaphors are deep man, thanks for breaking them down. That's some 3rd grade level **** dawg. Thanks for your insightful comments and contributions knight.

[doclinkin]

It's kind of funny, because I believe if Davis comes here, he is going to suck on John Wall level.

The Wizards are in another 10 year slump.

Wizards need some magic, cause his Wand and Spell book is broken.

He need to learn to naturally cast spells with his bare hands.

If you know what I mean by this metaphor

Trolling your own board is a quick way to wear out your welcome, rook.

[JonathanJoseph]

It's kind of funny, because I believe if Davis comes here, he is going to suck on John Wall level.

The Wizards are in another 10 year slump.

Wizards need some magic, cause his Wand and Spell book is broken.

He need to learn to naturally cast spells with his bare hands.

If you know what I mean by this metaphor

Trolling your own board is a quick way to wear out your welcome, rook.

Wear out his welcome? I got news for you, the game thread is 6 pages long. There aren't enough people left here to care.

That the Wiz are in contention for worst season in franchise history, and this is a historically bad franchise, is a depressing thing. Putting Wall into context is a monumentally depressing thing for fans of this franchise.

Trolling is being intentionally inflammatory. People vent in their own way, but a post you don't agree with or like the content of isn't trolling. There have been plenty of equally ridiculous posts recently.

[montestewart]

It's kind of funny, because I believe if Davis comes here, he is going to suck on John Wall level.

The Wizards are in another 10 year slump.

Wizards need some magic, cause his Wand and Spell book is broken.

He need to learn to naturally cast spells with his bare hands.

If you know what I mean by this metaphor

Is this referring to self abuse? If so, you're right, that could be a game changer.

[jivelikenice]

Wear out his welcome? I got news for you, the game thread is 6 pages long. There aren't enough people left here to care.

That the Wiz are in contention for worst season in franchise history, and this is a historically bad franchise, is a depressing thing. Putting Wall into context is a monumentally depressing thing for fans of this franchise.

Trolling is being intentionally inflammatory. People vent in their own way, but a post you don't agree with or like the content of isn't trolling. There have been plenty of equally ridiculous posts recently.

Thanks for the trolling education JJ...I would also call trolling posting on the board when Wall plays poorly and then disappearing when he plays.

[JonathanJoseph]

Wear out his welcome? I got news for you, the game thread is 6 pages long. There aren't enough people left here to care.

That the Wiz are in contention for worst season in franchise history, and this is a historically bad franchise, is a depressing thing. Putting Wall into context is a monumentally depressing thing for fans of this franchise.

Trolling is being intentionally inflammatory. People vent in their own way, but a post you don't agree with or like the content of isn't trolling. There have been plenty of equally ridiculous posts recently.

Thanks for the trolling education JJ...I would also call trolling posting on the board when Wall plays poorly and then disappearing when he plays.

I assume you meant when he plays well. I don't disappear, I just have a different view of "plays well". I've been quick to post after the games Wall has played well. As I've noted, you can count those instances on one hand.

[Dat2U]

Wow, its amazing how empty this thread becomes minus one poster.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall may blossom into a better player than he is now, but honestly I feel completely cheated with him as this 'franchise changing PG'. He's just not that, he's not a franchise changer and honestly he's going to need a tremendous amount of development even to become as impactful as Gilbert was during his time here.

Here's what Chad Ford wrote about him prior to the draft...

Wall isn't super-athletic -- he's extraterrestrially athletic. He's been compared to Derrick Rose, and truthfully, he's even more explosive. While Wall doesn't have Rose's steadiness on or off the court, when you turn him loose, he's virtually impossible to guard. Wall has the inside track on the No. 1 pick right now. Point guards with his physical abilities come along only two or three times a decade.

Would any self-respecting NBA fan even attempt to compare Wall to Derrick Rose? Wall still has great physical abilities, but he hasn't developed one bit since he entered college. Sure he had a hot stretch and shot more accurately in February, but did his form really improve? It's still slow and awkward. He still jumps to pass, he still drives the lane with seemingly no thoughts of what he'll do once he gets there, it still seems like he has no idea how to run a half-court offense, he still constantly defers to Crawford in nearly every half-court set.

I guess we have no option other than hope he just mentally gets it because Washington will never get equal value in a trade. It's incredibly frustrating because I feel like Wall's idea of working on his game is playing in AAU type events. Remember when the season started, Wall just tried to out-speed his guy but seems completely lost when he was actually defended. He wasn't being guarded in the Pro-Am Summer League Circuit and didn't know how to react for the first month and a half.

I don't feel like Wall works on his game. He's too casual in developing his skills. If he worked hard his shot would be better and he'd know how to operate the offense. Unless he really shows interest in developing he'll just be one of the many Wizards in this era that wasted phenomenal talent because poor work ethic.

I suggested trading him this time last season. That idea was met with much resistance.

I would trade Wall for Charlotte's pick and DJ Augustine, and I wouldn't be too distraught if I still didn't get Anthony Davis with either pick.

[Illuminaire]

Yeah, but you would do a lot of things you'd later regret, CCJ.

[hands11]

I think we all need to wait until next year to truly evaluate what to do with Wall. I made the same suggestion early one about moving him but how that would have played out has too many moving part to worry about now. We have him and he is a talent kid. I see mental shortcomings that need addressed but to be fair, he came into a uniquely crappy situation and the lock out I feel really slowed his 2nd year development. It didn't have to as much as it did. He wasted the summer playing the wrong kind of basketball. That was his choice but it is understandable for a kid his age given the situation. I'm sure running up and down the court school people was fun for him. Sadly, it build a wrong sense of improvement and false confidence because they style of ball didn't help him improve on the things he needed to improve.

Next year will be huge for him. This summer he needs to really focus on the things he needs to improve. It wouldn't be a stretch to think that he will. I think he learned a lot this year about what works and what doesn't. And by next year, he will have a much better team to start the season. Just having Nene will make a huge difference both on the court and as a leader of the post players. There will still be some holes on the roster but not crazy gaping holes like the post two seasons. And not the crazy turnover of players. They should be settling in nicely next year. Even with what they currently have, I can see them approaching fighting for the 8th slots.

What I like about where the team will be next year is this, they will have that kind of roster and cap space that adding one right piece will yield a larger return. When you have huge holes an multiple spot, adding the right player doesn't often get you over the hump and translate into wins. I see that getting really close to the point where add the right piece will do that for them. Then all the other pieces fall into place. Roll players can play their roll. Projects then have time to develop properly. Its important not to lose those type of players while you are looking for the next important piece because once you find it, things to come together rather quickly.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah, but you would do a lot of things you'd later regret, CCJ.

If I drafted Beal and Gilchrist, and signed any of Nash, Billups, Lin, Hinrich, B. Davis, Ridnour, etc. I don't think I'd miss John Wall. There are veteran FA guards in this draft who are more effective than John Wall. If I get a talented player in place of Wall, I wouldn't miss a beat. He is not a franchise PG and maybe one of the young guys are marquee talents. On top of that, I could draft (instead of Beal) either Damian Lillard or Kendall Marshall.

I believe Lillard has a good chance to be a better NBA player than John Wall, but I would count on Gilchrist or Beal to at least be as good as Wall in 3 years. So, add two of them and get a solid, veteran, FA PG. If I draft a PG in round two I could choose Marquis Teague, Tyshawn Taylor, Scott Machado, etc

In a scenario of drafting two top lottery picks; if I added Beal, Gilchrist, and also Machado in this draft, I could do without Wall. I doubt I would regret it. Last season I said Irving and a draft pick. I would definitely do that now. Who's to say there isn't an even better PG in this draft?

[hands11]

Yeah, but you would do a lot of things you'd later regret, CCJ.

If I drafted Beal and Gilchrist, and signed any of Nash, Billups, Lin, Hinrich, B. Davis, Ridnour, etc. I don't think I'd miss John Wall. There are veteran FA guards in this draft who are more effective than John Wall. If I get a talented player in place of Wall, I wouldn't miss a beat. He is not a franchise PG and maybe one of the young guys are marquee talents. On top of that, I could draft (instead of Beal) either Damian Lillard or Kendall Marshall.

I believe Lillard has a good chance to be a better NBA player than John Wall, but I would count on Gilchrist or Beal to at least be as good as Wall in 3 years. So, add two of them and get a solid, veteran, FA PG. If I draft a PG in round two I could choose Marquis Teague, Tyshawn Taylor, Scott Machado, etc

In a scenario of drafting two top lottery picks; if I added Beal, Gilchrist, and also Machado in this draft, I could do without Wall. I doubt I would regret it. Last season I said Irving and a draft pick. I would definitely do that now. Who's to say there isn't an better PG in this draft?

These are all viable solutions and lots of it is stuff I have written about. The difference with the way you and I see it is, we see Wall as an asset so we look at options to better the team using him as one. Others, like people that feel in love with Gil, they get more emotional about players that have holes in their games. Player who haven't won anything meaningful, yet are treated like franchise stars. Wall have not yet proven to be a franchise player so it is worth looking at options. Personally, I think the time to cash in was last year. As it is now, I say you have to give him another year with a real summer of professional practice. But it is at the risk of missing out on all those players you mentioned. Wall with Nene could co lead a team. I just don't think it is Walls team anymore. He needs Nene to help him lead it.

News flash to Gil lovers. He was never anything more then a shoot first high volume shooter/scorer on a flawed team. I said he would never lead that team anywhere. Basically a more polished more charismatic better marketer of himself version on Crawford. With a better 3 ball. The right move for handling Gil as an asset would have been to trade him when his value was high. You don't resign a player like that to a near max contract nor do you let him become the face of your franchise with such a strange personality. They should have never gotten in the position of needing to match his contract. He should have been traded the year before and cashed in for more assets. I'm mean, what could they have gotten for him at the time ? Probably a ton.

I projected that Gil would be late to having his light bulb go on and if he was going to be on a winning team, it would be much like it is now for him. I never saw the style he played in his prime as something that would mesh on a winning team. And once he stopped getting the calls, his game was exposed. He shot a high eFG % because he got calls. After he stopped getting them, it was sad watching him try to force the issue. I like the style of ball he is playing now. He can contribute to a winner with what he is doing now.

[WizarDynasty]

Gil was a heavy guard that weighed over 215lbs with an explosive first step and the ability to finish consistently through contact that could also shoot the three. How many current nba players in the league have this ability. Eric Gordon, derrick rose, james harden--slower but still pretty quick first step, monta ellis.

Arenas would be a top three lottery talent based off his explosive first step and finishing ability...the only problem has extremely poor lateral movement which is why he fell in the draft.
if we found a guard with gil's explosive first step, who weighed over 215 and could finish consistently through contact and hit the three, he would be our franchise player, not john wall.