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Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - 12/13/12)

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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1381 » by blazinskillz » Mon Dec 3, 2012 5:29 am

nuposse04 wrote:
blazinskillz wrote:@nuposse04

What has Seraphin proved? that he can be inconsistent? Right now Kevin has been like a poor man's Eddy Curry(eddy Curry when he was actually productive). 1.7 assist is good for a team with 6 play makers or more. I think you're overrate him. If he's 3-4 year from being a allstar, what does that make Kevin? I think Prime Seraphin may average 16 and 8 realistically but he's on a bad team now and that's hard to asset. Thing about Leonard that I like, is that he doesnt make many mistakes and you hardly ever see Pop chewing him out. I see Leonard as a 17pts,8 rb, 2stl kind of player in his prime. Remember he played PF in College.


So basically you're expecting prime gerald wallace out of him? Seraphin has his issues, but he's shown a propensity to improve, I'm not sure if Randy will end up being the right coach for him but he has shown substantial progress. Per 36 seraphin is already averaging around 16-8...i think his ceiling is probably around 19-9 on decent efficiency. But its all a gamble...seraphin's flaws aren't MAJOR imo. like AFM said, he does stupid things like setting bad picks...I think these things are amendable. I don't beleive Leonard's drive to be great is any greater then seraphins, and having an all star big man has more value then borderline all star wing. Again, i'd rather give up beal right now then seraphin.

He plays nothing like Gerald. He's more finesse than power. He doesnt play out of control. It took Gerald years to become the kind of shooter Leonard is now from deep. Poor man's Scottie pippen outside of the playmaking. I don't think Seraphin will ever average more than 16-17 pts. That would mean he'll have to be the #1 or #2 option and if he does, that's not a good thing. Kevin is a very mental player. If you get in his head, it bothers him and if his confidence is low, he's quite useless. I see Beal as a 23pts,5 rb,3ast player in his prime. I would not trade him for Leonard. He may look like some shyt now, but people was counting Harden out his 1st two years saying Demar was the wayyy better player. i remember harden used to get his layups blocked all the time and people considered him a below the basket player. Said he was slow and average athletics. I have faith in Beal. His problem is that he's trying hard not to make mistakes instead of just playing through it, sorta like Kevin but Kevin makes mistakes now that rookie makes. I root for Seraphin every night, so dont get me wrong...especially since he's sorta West Indian like myself.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1382 » by hands11 » Mon Dec 3, 2012 6:13 am

The fact that Kevin has developed as well as he has so far is very encouraging. It used to be that you couldn't even put him on the floor because he was lost and he fouled way to much. Hell, I remember all the Kevin bashing that used to go on here.

So now he has a nice finesse game and can hit the mid range with good efficiency. He has developed a nice little game but its just way to soft given he can be so much more of a power player.

If the kid could just learn some moves toward the basket and discover that he is 6-9 275 and athletic, he would be near impossible to stop. He has had two back to back games with 10 rebounds which is a good sign. But I want to see if Randy can unleash the beast in the kid. If he could make more plays toward the hoop and try to dunk more, he would get to the line and get the opposing team bigs in foul trouble.

With the minutes he is getting, he should be getting to the line 2 or 3 times a game.

I thought Nene was his mentor. Why are we not seeing him learn any of Nene's game ? Nene is always making moves to the basket. Then he jab steps and does a step back jumper. Kevin should be able to make moves that look like that. No way I would trade the kid just yet. He has come to far and he still has plenty of room to get better.

I say the team needs to add a 7-0 big man center the likes of Nikola Pekovic. Let Kevin be a PF.

Nene/Kevin
Pekovic/Ves

That would be a pretty nice 4 man rotation in the front court.

For now, Kevin is one of the players who can dramatically step up his game this year. Wall is another. And I think Webster is the third.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1383 » by nuposse04 » Mon Dec 3, 2012 7:05 am

blazinskillz wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:
So basically you're expecting prime gerald wallace out of him? Seraphin has his issues, but he's shown a propensity to improve, I'm not sure if Randy will end up being the right coach for him but he has shown substantial progress. Per 36 seraphin is already averaging around 16-8...i think his ceiling is probably around 19-9 on decent efficiency. But its all a gamble...seraphin's flaws aren't MAJOR imo. like AFM said, he does stupid things like setting bad picks...I think these things are amendable. I don't beleive Leonard's drive to be great is any greater then seraphins, and having an all star big man has more value then borderline all star wing. Again, i'd rather give up beal right now then seraphin.

He plays nothing like Gerald. He's more finesse than power. He doesnt play out of control. It took Gerald years to become the kind of shooter Leonard is now from deep. Poor man's Scottie pippen outside of the playmaking. I don't think Seraphin will ever average more than 16-17 pts. That would mean he'll have to be the #1 or #2 option and if he does, that's not a good thing. Kevin is a very mental player. If you get in his head, it bothers him and if his confidence is low, he's quite useless. I see Beal as a 23pts,5 rb,3ast player in his prime. I would not trade him for Leonard. He may look like some shyt now, but people was counting Harden out his 1st two years saying Demar was the wayyy better player. i remember harden used to get his layups blocked all the time and people considered him a below the basket player. Said he was slow and average athletics. I have faith in Beal. His problem is that he's trying hard not to make mistakes instead of just playing through it, sorta like Kevin but Kevin makes mistakes now that rookie makes. I root for Seraphin every night, so dont get me wrong...especially since he's sorta West Indian like myself.


His game is a bit different but his production will be the same. He's more Deng then with ur comparison if you ask me. Deng is good..but highly overrated. If that is prime Beal then you're even more optimisitic about him then i am about seraphin. Seraphin's per 36 numbers are fine but his efficiency is questionable right now. I think he actually functions well with a drive and dish PG like Wall. I just think its asinine to trade a big with loads of potential for wing who doesn't have more potential. I don't think Leonard is a bad player...I just don't see him being being as impactful here, as he is there. Also in Kevin's defense, he had a completely uneventful rookie campaign and didn't really get any opportunity to show his talents till half-way through a locked out season.

Again, i'd rather not trade anyone of consequence until Wall returns.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1384 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Dec 3, 2012 6:34 pm

I agree with nuposse04 about waiting on trades. All of the pieces will look different and the mood will be more reflective and responsible, vs reactionary and irresponsible. No more panic trades, please, Mr Grunfeld.

On Kawhi Leonard vs Kevin Seraphin, I think Leonard is pretty talented to get that much respect from Gregg Popovich so early on. Last season Kawhi Leonard was really good.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

Looking at his game logs from the playoffs, Kawhi Leonard had 4 monster games: one against the Jazz, one against the Clippers, and two against the Thunder. Leonard is going to come up big on the big stage as his career progresses IMO. I loved his rebounding when he was at San Diego State. He shocked me with his three point shooting when he got to the NBA. He's a very good defender. I would say he's a pretty sure all star sometime in the future.

Kevin Seraphin is talented. How many consecutive double figure scoring games did he register last season?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

Sixteen straight games. Seraphin fell two points short of having a nineteen-game streak. He shot the ball real well over the entire time span. His game scores were not quite as impressive as Leonard's playoff game scores IMO. Kevin doesn't hit the boards hard but he is potentially a 20+ point scorer.

Would I trade Seraphin for Leonard? Yes, because the Wizards need a quality swing man and I think Leonard will be an all star. Seraphin probably won't be an all star, but he IS really physically gifted.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1385 » by blazinskillz » Mon Dec 3, 2012 6:36 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I agree with nuposse04 about waiting on trades. All of the pieces will look different and the mood will be more reflective and responsible, vs reactionary and irresponsible. No more panic trades, please, Mr Grunfeld.

On Kawhi Leonard vs Kevin Seraphin, I think Leonard is pretty talented to get that much respect from Greg Popovich so early on. Last season Kawhi Leonard was really good.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

Looking at his game logs from the playoffs, Kawhi Leonard had 4 monster games: one against the Jazz, one against the Clippers, and two against the Thunder. Leonard is going to come up big on the big stage as his career progresses IMO. I loved his rebounding when he was at San Diego State. He shocked me with his three point shooting when he got to the NBA. He's a very good defender. I would say he's a pretty sure all star sometime in the future.

Kevin Seraphin is talented. How many consecutive double figure scoring games did he register last season?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

Sixteen straight games. Seraphin fell two points short of having a nineteen-game streak. He shot the ball real well over the entire time span. His game scores were not quite as impressive as Leonard's playoff game scores IMO. Kevin doesn't hit the boards hard but he is potentially a 20+ point scorer.

Would I trade Seraphin for Leonard? Yes, because the Wizards need a quality swing man and I think Leonard will be an all star. Seraphin probably won't be an all star, but he IS really physically gifted.

This almost exactly my sentiment
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1386 » by nuposse04 » Mon Dec 3, 2012 6:53 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I agree with nuposse04 about waiting on trades. All of the pieces will look different and the mood will be more reflective and responsible, vs reactionary and irresponsible. No more panic trades, please, Mr Grunfeld.

On Kawhi Leonard vs Kevin Seraphin, I think Leonard is pretty talented to get that much respect from Gregg Popovich so early on. Last season Kawhi Leonard was really good.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

Looking at his game logs from the playoffs, Kawhi Leonard had 4 monster games: one against the Jazz, one against the Clippers, and two against the Thunder. Leonard is going to come up big on the big stage as his career progresses IMO. I loved his rebounding when he was at San Diego State. He shocked me with his three point shooting when he got to the NBA. He's a very good defender. I would say he's a pretty sure all star sometime in the future.

Kevin Seraphin is talented. How many consecutive double figure scoring games did he register last season?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

Sixteen straight games. Seraphin fell two points short of having a nineteen-game streak. He shot the ball real well over the entire time span. His game scores were not quite as impressive as Leonard's playoff game scores IMO. Kevin doesn't hit the boards hard but he is potentially a 20+ point scorer.

Would I trade Seraphin for Leonard? Yes, because the Wizards need a quality swing man and I think Leonard will be an all star. Seraphin probably won't be an all star, but he IS really physically gifted.


I wouldn't call a 17-10 and 18-10 game, "monster games" but i guess given the circumstances (him being a rookie) and against quality opposition in the playoffs, it was impressive...but I don't think it leads me to think much else about him. A lot of his points in those games against OKC were also via the 3 ball (which would be welcome here) but Webster has been almost as impressive in the limited burn he gets (I'd like to see randy play him more at SF but that's an argument for a different thread I guess.)

This would all be moot if EG had a brain though. One can hope our next GM will.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1387 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Dec 3, 2012 7:40 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY5AV8YIeJU[/youtube]
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1388 » by LyricalRico » Mon Dec 3, 2012 8:18 pm

^ Hey, I thought I already patented that line for EFJ. :D
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1389 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Dec 3, 2012 8:23 pm

Oh no, not more court time! :(

My ex-wife lost but she sure made my lawyer a richer man, LR. :) They literally know me at family court BTW. I had to keep laughing, man, to keep from crying. After a while, even my lawyer liked me. I was like "Nice IPad. Wish I could afford one, at first." Remember that guy on the "People's Court" who says "Don't take the law into your hands. Take them to court." That's true. In real life, just make sure you've got a good lawyer. I did. I got what I paid for.

LR, I'll settle man. It was an inadvertent mistake. Seriously, one of my sons asked about this type thing. What if you think a song is yours but somebody else did something similar. Eerie ...
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1390 » by Dat2U » Mon Dec 3, 2012 8:43 pm

Right now, Serpahin is looking like a cross b/w Eddy Curry and Andray Blatche. Now considering where he was a year ago (somewhere in the range Saer Sene or anyone who's last name is N'Diaye), that's damn good progress... but he's still a solid ways from being a reliable part of a winning team's rotation.

I'd have no qualms about trading anyone on the Wizards outside of Wall & Beal. And even with those two, I'd at least listen to offers. If any team in NBA needs to be blown up ASAP, it is the Wizards.

Patience is the last word anyone associated with the Wizards should be using.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1391 » by queridiculo » Mon Dec 3, 2012 8:55 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Patience is the last word anyone associated with the Wizards should be using.


Wish somebody would Uncle Ted 2-3 times, looks like he's digging in.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1392 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Dec 3, 2012 9:13 pm

Washington sends Ariza.
Washington receives Metta World Peace.

Why? $$$

MWP has a player option that he would surely exercise and opt out before coming back to the Wizards next season. The 15% trade kicker would be a reward to MWP. Washington could also move MWP again before the deadline.

MWP, Nene, and Seraphin/Okafor would be a really nasty group for any opposing team to contend with. They would win games on toughness and orneriness.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1393 » by LyricalRico » Mon Dec 3, 2012 9:38 pm

^ Maybe, or Metta could just not show up and say "waive me suckers". You never know with him.

But I have been looking for Lakers trades that might be able to work. They seem to need to get more athletic, so I wonder if they'd be interested in some combo of Ariza/Vesely/Booker plus something from a third team in a deal where they shipped Gasol to said third team. Haven't found anything yet, though.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1394 » by queridiculo » Mon Dec 3, 2012 9:47 pm

A lineup of Wall/Beal/Artest/Nene/Seraphin might actually be pretty entertaining to watch.

How that entertainment factor would translate to the locker room is an entirely different question altogether. I personally don't trust World Peace in D.C. all that much.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1395 » by blazinskillz » Mon Dec 3, 2012 10:21 pm

I think World Peace may be good for Beal. I think going at in practice and have Metta in his ear would be good for his development
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1396 » by Jimmy Recard » Tue Dec 4, 2012 12:13 pm

Lakers would do that in a heartbeat
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1397 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 4, 2012 2:22 pm

Seraphin + Booker for Cousins

Nene for Eric Bledsoe, Lamar Odom & Ryan Hollins

Beal + Ariza + 2013 unprotected 1st for Lamarcus Aldridge


New lineup:
PG: Wall, Bledsoe
SG: Bledsoe, Crawford
SF: Webster, Martin
PF: Aldridge, Singleton
C: Cousins, Okafor
End of Bench: Livingston, Hollins, Vesely

That's a team that should win games immediately with Wall, Bledsoe and Aldridge - rendering that unprotected 1st to Portland to be not such a big loss. In addition to the win-now aspect, the team has a serious future with Wall and Cousins just barely tapping their potential. There's enough hard-working veterans to keep Cousins in line; and with Aldridge as the undeniably superior offensive player, hopefully it won't be too hard to curb Cousins' shot-happy ways.

Too far fetched?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1398 » by LyricalRico » Tue Dec 4, 2012 3:14 pm

^ Yeah, I'm not sure those deals happen nate. Sacto has Thompson and Robinson, so I'm not sure they want/need Booker. Also, does LAC both add a big contract and give up Bledsoe in the same deal? And I think Portland would move Matthews and/or Batum before Aldridge.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1399 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 4, 2012 3:23 pm

hands11 wrote:The fact that Kevin has developed as well as he has so far is very encouraging.

Wouldn't it be nice if this were true? I loved him as a draft pick, was hoping we'd figure out how to get him, but he really hasn't turned into much of an NBA player yet. He has a year or so more, but the older you get the less room between you and your ceiling, so I can't see a reason to think Kevin will ever be the player I'd hoped he'd become.
hands11 wrote:For now, Kevin is one of the players who can dramatically step up his game this year. Wall is another. And I think Webster is the third.

Dramatically? First lets see him be good at all. He hasn't been this year.

As to the other two, Wall had better improve dramatically this year, otherwise he goes right into the disappointment bin.

Now, w/o a doubt Webster is playing better this year than he ever has as a pro. If he stays at this level, that is already dramatic improvement -- more than I can recall seeing from another player his age any time in the last decade or two. Give Ernie credit for this signing. Best move, only good move, he's made in a while.

Hard to imagine that Martell would "step up" any further than he has.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1400 » by Nivek » Tue Dec 4, 2012 3:26 pm

1) I agree that signing Webster has been Grunfeld's best move from this past offseason.

2) How frigging sad is it that Ernie's "best move" is signing Webster -- a guy who has managed to be a bit better than average?
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