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Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - 12/13/12)

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Post#1171 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:23 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.
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Post#1172 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:55 am by payitforward

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.

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Post#1173 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:33 pm by Dat2U

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.



You want Stuckey, but you want to trade Wall as well. I don't get it. If you don't like Wall, why in the world would you want a less talented, non PG version of Wall that can't shoot either?

And they certainly can't play together. Not with non-shooting options at the 3, 4 & 5. I do see us eventually needing a 3rd guard in the future behind Wall & Beal, but that guard needs to be a shooter as well.
hands11 wrote:Of course Dray was an idiot. So were the fans for endlessly booing him. Had they not done that, they could have actually keep him around and traded him when his value wasn't rock bottom.
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Post#1174 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:44 pm by Chocolate City Jordanaire

Dat2U wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Stuckey might be undervalued right now given his recent shooting slump, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a lousy fit alongside Wall. Our SG simply must be able to shoot.


Wall may miss the season. I think I might trade Wall were I a GM. Stuckey, (and I read another website for this idea--sorry I didn't bookmark it to quote the source), is ideally a future backup at either PG or SG. For this season I could see him playing with Price or Beal.

You're right, nate, Stuckey at SG can't shoot and neither can Wall at PG. Regardless, I would pair them together because they are great passers and elite athletes.



You want Stuckey, but you want to trade Wall as well. I don't get it. If you don't like Wall, why in the world would you want a less talented, non PG version of Wall that can't shoot either?

And they certainly can't play together. Not with non-shooting options at the 3, 4 & 5. I do see us eventually needing a 3rd guard in the future behind Wall & Beal, but that guard needs to be a shooter as well.


payitforward sort of described the idea accurately, Dat, as shuffling the deck chairs. Instead of considering this as a deal for Rodney Stuckey, who I am ambivalent towards; think about the rest of the deal:

1. Either Austin Daye or Khris Middleton could be good. Middleton was good in limited minutes in summer league. Either player could end up a starter at SF (Trivia: Middleton played for Terps coach, Mark Turgeon at Tx A&M.)

2. Taking away Ariza and Crawford is addition by subtraction IMO. At the very least, Ariza's gone from the logjam at SF and that would give Webster, Singleton, and Martin an open competition for minutes.

3. Stuckey is the best player in the deal. If he returns to form, he can be an 18 PER player. You might not like his shooting but the idea is to add talent. I could see Stuckey as Wall's backup or part of a future trade. What Washington lacks is athletic talent. Stuckey would be an upgrade over Price or Crawford.


My rationale for this idea stems from my thought that Crawford and Ariza both are liabilities. Austin Daye is a 6'11" outside threat. Middleton is 21 years old. There is very little risk in this deal but the potential of reward from Middleton.
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Post#1175 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:22 pm by Zonkerbl

The weird thing is, according to Kevin's analysis, Trevor has actually been our very best player so far. Just none of it is reflected in the "offensive efficiency" portion of the metric, iirc.

http://broomonthewarpath.sportsblog.com ... e_the.html

"Trevor Ariza is the team's most productive player so far?! Yeah, I gulped when I saw that myself. Then I looked at the numbers. Ariza's shooting is atrocious, but there's more to the game than shooting. Adjusted for pace, Ariza is a shade below average in rebounding, and is better than average in assists, steals, blocks, turnovers and fouls. In other words, he does a lot of stuff well. I'd expect his overall rating to moderate as his extremely high steal rate (4.5 pace adjusted steals per 36 minutes) comes down."
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Post#1176 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:13 pm by LyricalRico

Posted this about a week ago.

LyricalRico wrote:Okafor+Crawford to DET for Stuckey+Prince? Saves the Pistons some longterm money and gives the Wiz a combo guard that could be a good compliment to Wall/Beal. Prince also helps us at SF.

Seraphin/Vesely
Nene/Booker/Singleton
Prince/Webster/Ariza
Beal/Stuckey
Wall/Stuckey
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Post#1177 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:36 pm by Dat2U

I hope Ariza keeps it up. Build that trade value!

CCJ, your right in the point that Stuckey is better than anything else we have outside of the potential of Wall/Beal. To get him on the cheap (and dumping Ariza/Craw would be nice), rehab his value as another potential trade chip down the line... makes a lot sense. You sold me.

As far as trades go, I am at the point that no one is untouchable. Even Wall. Not actively pursuing a deal but at least I'm willing to listen with him. When your this bad, there's no reason why anyone should be untouchable.

If I was GM and taking over this mess, I'd be in ultra aggressive cap clearing mode right now. Get Nene back on the court and producing and trade him to the first buyer, even with assets if necessary. Sell off a Vesely or Booker to dump Okafor if possible. Who wants Ariza & Singleton for an expiring?

All I would care about is Wall, Beal and possibly Seraphin. Although if Seraphin helps move Nene that would be very tempting, almost too tempting to pass up. We'd also have a top 5 2013 pick coming. If I have a healthy Wall (no rush in having him return), an improving Beal, a top 5 pick and a ton of cap room (Nene, Okafor, Ariza gone) going into the 2013 off-season I'd very happy. I would have undid all of Grunfeld's damage in one year. :lol:
hands11 wrote:Of course Dray was an idiot. So were the fans for endlessly booing him. Had they not done that, they could have actually keep him around and traded him when his value wasn't rock bottom.
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Post#1178 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:29 pm by nate33

What would be the rationale for acquiring cap room? Is there anyone in particular you are eyeing as a free agent? If not, then I suggest retaining Nene for longer and hoping he eventually gets fully healthy and improves his trade value.

If we're talking about a rebuild here, then I think a better option would be to target Summer 2014 when Okafor and Ariza come off the books. We can try to move Booker and Crawford by then (since we wouldn't be planning on resigning them) and see if Nene's trade value peaks sometime in the next two seasons.

The real question is: what to do with Seraphin and Wall. By 2014, we probably wouldn't have enough talent for it to make sense to resign both guys to a very large deal. Seraphin might not cost much, but Wall will probably cost the max. Do we pay him that? If not, then we should look to move him immediately.
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Post#1179 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:35 pm by Nivek

At this point, we don't have enough information to make a decent decision on whether or not Wall should get the max in 2014. Based on what he's done in his first two seasons -- no. It would be a preposterously bad decision. If he comes back with an improved jumper and with reduced turnovers -- he could well be worth a max salary.
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Post#1180 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:12 pm by Dat2U

nate33 wrote:What would be the rationale for acquiring cap room? Is there anyone in particular you are eyeing as a free agent? If not, then I suggest retaining Nene for longer and hoping he eventually gets fully healthy and improves his trade value.

If we're talking about a rebuild here, then I think a better option would be to target Summer 2014 when Okafor and Ariza come off the books. We can try to move Booker and Crawford by then (since we wouldn't be planning on resigning them) and see if Nene's trade value peaks sometime in the next two seasons.

The real question is: what to do with Seraphin and Wall. By 2014, we probably wouldn't have enough talent for it to make sense to resign both guys to a very large deal. Seraphin might not cost much, but Wall will probably cost the max. Do we pay him that? If not, then we should look to move him immediately.


1. Dwight Howard
2. I believe Nene is damaged goods and will never be fully healthy
3. 2014 could be an option as well, but cap room in 2013 allows for flexibility in acquiring additional assets (picks, BOYD deals)
4. I haven't seen enough evidence on Seraphin yet to truly form an opinion about being an invaluable piece.
5. Wall about $10 mil per based on what I've seen thus far but i suspect in time he'll improve and will be able to command more when the time comes to address his situation.
hands11 wrote:Of course Dray was an idiot. So were the fans for endlessly booing him. Had they not done that, they could have actually keep him around and traded him when his value wasn't rock bottom.
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Post#1181 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:04 pm by nate33

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:What would be the rationale for acquiring cap room? Is there anyone in particular you are eyeing as a free agent? If not, then I suggest retaining Nene for longer and hoping he eventually gets fully healthy and improves his trade value.

If we're talking about a rebuild here, then I think a better option would be to target Summer 2014 when Okafor and Ariza come off the books. We can try to move Booker and Crawford by then (since we wouldn't be planning on resigning them) and see if Nene's trade value peaks sometime in the next two seasons.

The real question is: what to do with Seraphin and Wall. By 2014, we probably wouldn't have enough talent for it to make sense to resign both guys to a very large deal. Seraphin might not cost much, but Wall will probably cost the max. Do we pay him that? If not, then we should look to move him immediately.


1. Dwight Howard
2. I believe Nene is damaged goods and will never be fully healthy
3. 2014 could be an option as well, but cap room in 2013 allows for flexibility in acquiring additional assets (picks, BOYD deals)
4. I haven't seen enough evidence on Seraphin yet to truly form an opinion about being an invaluable piece.
5. Wall about $10 mil per based on what I've seen thus far but i suspect in time he'll improve and will be able to command more when the time comes to address his situation.

I just don't see how we could acquire Howard at this point. Moving Okafor and Ariza off the books will probably cost some assets, and I don't see Howard choosing to play here with Wall, Beal and a bare cupboard - not at this stage of his career.
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Post#1182 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:03 pm by mhd

OKC liked Seraphin in the draft. A Seraphin+Ariza for Perkins+PJ3+Toronto pick makes sense for both sides. Ariza gives OKC a defender to throw at Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc. Seraphin gives them a cheap big who can score and shoot FTs. He's also beefy enough to guard the Zach Randolphs of the world.


I'd look to flip Perkins to anyone who wants him. Stuckey for Perkins makes some sense. Detroit gets a badly needed 3rd big to allow Drummond to develop. We get a combo guard who expires a year sooner.
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Post#1183 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:31 pm by fugop

I know he can't shoot, but Kendall Marshall hasn't seen any time for Phoenix. They resigned Dragic after drafting him, and have given all the backup minutes to Telfair.

They also lack a defensive 4 man, with Beasley and Morris their top guys in the rotation.

Vesely for Kendall Marshall? At least we'd have a guy who could conceivably pass the ball.
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Post#1184 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:33 pm by mhd

fugop wrote:I know he can't shoot, but Kendall Marshall hasn't seen any time for Phoenix. They resigned Dragic after drafting him, and have given all the backup minutes to Telfair.

They also lack a defensive 4 man, with Beasley and Morris their top guys in the rotation.

Vesely for Kendall Marshall? At least we'd have a guy who could conceivably pass the ball.



I'd LOVE to do that deal. Marshall would be an excellent cheap backup PG for the next 4 years. Excellent trade idea.
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Post#1185 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:07 am by miller31time

mhd wrote:
fugop wrote:I know he can't shoot, but Kendall Marshall hasn't seen any time for Phoenix. They resigned Dragic after drafting him, and have given all the backup minutes to Telfair.

They also lack a defensive 4 man, with Beasley and Morris their top guys in the rotation.

Vesely for Kendall Marshall? At least we'd have a guy who could conceivably pass the ball.



I'd LOVE to do that deal. Marshall would be an excellent cheap backup PG for the next 4 years. Excellent trade idea.


While I think we can all agree that the Wizards could use Marshall a lot more than Vesely (and that it's not a bad trade at all), I'd hope Jan had more "perceived" trade value.
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Post#1186 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:12 am by fugop

I'm sure Marshall actually has more perceived value. He was the 12th pick in a good draft, and hasn't had the chance to prove that he can't play in the league.
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Post#1187 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:49 am by Dat2U

Here's some trades I came up with to fix the Wizards current situation:

Wizards trade: SF Trevor Ariza & PF Trevor Booker
Clippers trade: PF Lamar Odom (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: CE Emeka Okafor & Jan Vesely
Spurs trade: PF Matt Bonner, PF Dejuan Blair & SF Stephen Jackson (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: PF Nene (after he gets back on the court) & SG Jordan Crawford
Celtics trade: SG Leandro Barbosa, PF Brandon Bass

Wizards cut: PG Jannero Pargo (lol)

New roster:
PF Brandon Bass / Chris Singleton / Matt Bonner / Dejuan Blair (FA)
SF Martell Webster (FA) / Cartier Martin (FA)
CE Kevin Seraphin / Earl Barron (FA)
SG Bradley Beal / Leandro Barbosa (FA)
PG John Wall / A.J. Price (FA)

Key points: Only guys under contract for next season are Wall, Beal, Seraphin, Bass, Singleton & Bonner. Likely top 5 pick coming. Add in a quality prospect like Muhammad, Zeller or Len and with enough cap space for 2 near max free agents, the future wouldn't look so bad after all.
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Post#1188 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:17 am by montestewart

Now you just have to get Terd to fire Ernie and let you take over.
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Post#1189 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:03 pm by nuposse04

Ersan is taking a dive in Bucks land....maybe we can have em for Okafor+jan? :/

*we'd still need to offload Nene somehow with Seraphin and Wall up for extensions sooner than later.
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Post#1190 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:04 pm by nate33

Dat2U wrote:Here's some trades I came up with to fix the Wizards current situation:

Wizards trade: SF Trevor Ariza & PF Trevor Booker
Clippers trade: PF Lamar Odom (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: CE Emeka Okafor & Jan Vesely
Spurs trade: PF Matt Bonner, PF Dejuan Blair & SF Stephen Jackson (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: PF Nene (after he gets back on the court) & SG Jordan Crawford
Celtics trade: SG Leandro Barbosa, PF Brandon Bass

Wizards cut: PG Jannero Pargo (lol)

New roster:
PF Brandon Bass / Chris Singleton / Matt Bonner / Dejuan Blair (FA)
SF Martell Webster (FA) / Cartier Martin (FA)
CE Kevin Seraphin / Earl Barron (FA)
SG Bradley Beal / Leandro Barbosa (FA)
PG John Wall / A.J. Price (FA)

Key points: Only guys under contract for next season are Wall, Beal, Seraphin, Bass, Singleton & Bonner. Likely top 5 pick coming. Add in a quality prospect like Muhammad, Zeller or Len and with enough cap space for 2 near max free agents, the future wouldn't look so bad after all.

I don't see the point. Yeah, you've cleared cap room, but no decent free agent will want to join that squad. We'll end up overpaying for more overpriced free agents like Okafor. A BOYD plan is not viable because there are too many other under-the-cap teams, which will drive down the value of our cap room.

I'm more than happy to dump Okafor and Ariza, but I'm not giving up value to make it happen. That's just throwing good money after bad. I think we're better off shopping Booker and/or Vesely directly for late draft picks, than we would be to use them to acquire cap room, and then use the cap room to acquire picks.

If Ariza keeps playing the way he has been playing, he might be tradeable for an expiring contract if a contender is in need of a defensive SF. Likewise with Okafor. We need to be patient. When Wall and Nene get back and we start playing like a marginally competent basketball team, some of our dead weight will start to look a bit more appealing.

I definitely wouldn't trade Nene yet. If we dump Okafor and Ariza, we'll have $17M in cap room next summer. - even more if we ended up dumping Vesely, Crawford or Booker in the process. I'd rather have Nene plus $20M in cap room than no Nene and $33M in cap room. Players might actually be interested in joining a team with Wall, Nene, Beal and Seraphin. They won't join a team with just Wall, Beal and Seraphin.
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