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Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - 12/13/12)

Moderators: WizStorm, miller31time, LyricalRico, pineappleheadindc, nate33

Post#1186 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:12 am by fugop

I'm sure Marshall actually has more perceived value. He was the 12th pick in a good draft, and hasn't had the chance to prove that he can't play in the league.
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Post#1187 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:49 am by Dat2U

Here's some trades I came up with to fix the Wizards current situation:

Wizards trade: SF Trevor Ariza & PF Trevor Booker
Clippers trade: PF Lamar Odom (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: CE Emeka Okafor & Jan Vesely
Spurs trade: PF Matt Bonner, PF Dejuan Blair & SF Stephen Jackson (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: PF Nene (after he gets back on the court) & SG Jordan Crawford
Celtics trade: SG Leandro Barbosa, PF Brandon Bass

Wizards cut: PG Jannero Pargo (lol)

New roster:
PF Brandon Bass / Chris Singleton / Matt Bonner / Dejuan Blair (FA)
SF Martell Webster (FA) / Cartier Martin (FA)
CE Kevin Seraphin / Earl Barron (FA)
SG Bradley Beal / Leandro Barbosa (FA)
PG John Wall / A.J. Price (FA)

Key points: Only guys under contract for next season are Wall, Beal, Seraphin, Bass, Singleton & Bonner. Likely top 5 pick coming. Add in a quality prospect like Muhammad, Zeller or Len and with enough cap space for 2 near max free agents, the future wouldn't look so bad after all.
hands11 wrote:Of course Dray was an idiot. So were the fans for endlessly booing him. Had they not done that, they could have actually keep him around and traded him when his value wasn't rock bottom.
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Post#1188 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:17 am by montestewart

Now you just have to get Terd to fire Ernie and let you take over.
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Post#1189 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:03 pm by nuposse04

Ersan is taking a dive in Bucks land....maybe we can have em for Okafor+jan? :/

*we'd still need to offload Nene somehow with Seraphin and Wall up for extensions sooner than later.
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Post#1190 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:04 pm by nate33

Dat2U wrote:Here's some trades I came up with to fix the Wizards current situation:

Wizards trade: SF Trevor Ariza & PF Trevor Booker
Clippers trade: PF Lamar Odom (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: CE Emeka Okafor & Jan Vesely
Spurs trade: PF Matt Bonner, PF Dejuan Blair & SF Stephen Jackson (to be bought out and released)

Wizards trade: PF Nene (after he gets back on the court) & SG Jordan Crawford
Celtics trade: SG Leandro Barbosa, PF Brandon Bass

Wizards cut: PG Jannero Pargo (lol)

New roster:
PF Brandon Bass / Chris Singleton / Matt Bonner / Dejuan Blair (FA)
SF Martell Webster (FA) / Cartier Martin (FA)
CE Kevin Seraphin / Earl Barron (FA)
SG Bradley Beal / Leandro Barbosa (FA)
PG John Wall / A.J. Price (FA)

Key points: Only guys under contract for next season are Wall, Beal, Seraphin, Bass, Singleton & Bonner. Likely top 5 pick coming. Add in a quality prospect like Muhammad, Zeller or Len and with enough cap space for 2 near max free agents, the future wouldn't look so bad after all.

I don't see the point. Yeah, you've cleared cap room, but no decent free agent will want to join that squad. We'll end up overpaying for more overpriced free agents like Okafor. A BOYD plan is not viable because there are too many other under-the-cap teams, which will drive down the value of our cap room.

I'm more than happy to dump Okafor and Ariza, but I'm not giving up value to make it happen. That's just throwing good money after bad. I think we're better off shopping Booker and/or Vesely directly for late draft picks, than we would be to use them to acquire cap room, and then use the cap room to acquire picks.

If Ariza keeps playing the way he has been playing, he might be tradeable for an expiring contract if a contender is in need of a defensive SF. Likewise with Okafor. We need to be patient. When Wall and Nene get back and we start playing like a marginally competent basketball team, some of our dead weight will start to look a bit more appealing.

I definitely wouldn't trade Nene yet. If we dump Okafor and Ariza, we'll have $17M in cap room next summer. - even more if we ended up dumping Vesely, Crawford or Booker in the process. I'd rather have Nene plus $20M in cap room than no Nene and $33M in cap room. Players might actually be interested in joining a team with Wall, Nene, Beal and Seraphin. They won't join a team with just Wall, Beal and Seraphin.
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Post#1191 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:25 pm by verbal8

nuposse04 wrote:Ersan is taking a dive in Bucks land....maybe we can have em for Okafor+jan? :/

*we'd still need to offload Nene somehow with Seraphin and Wall up for extensions sooner than later.


I think Vesely still has some trade value. I would rather deal Ariza and Vesely for Ersan. It is a longer commitment, but I think Ersan has the best chance of being a good player. I don't know that the Bucks would be too eager to add those players.

I think Nene for Ersan and filler could have an appeal to both sides. For the WIzards the long-term obligations are cut in half. For the Bucks, they get the player who is better right now. A championship is a long shot, but a deep play-off run might be possible with a core of Ellis/Jennings/Nene and a decent supporting cast.
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Post#1192 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:30 pm by Dat2U

nate33 wrote:I don't see the point. Yeah, you've cleared cap room, but no decent free agent will want to join that squad. We'll end up overpaying for more overpriced free agents like Okafor. A BOYD plan is not viable because there are too many other under-the-cap teams, which will drive down the value of our cap room.

Dat's comment: You sound like Ernie & Ted. "But, no one wants to come here". Well I feel that's a bunch of crap. Free agents still like money. Also if you have a cap room to bring in two difference makers then there may be the appeal of free agents teaming up and coming to one location. DC is a metropolitan city, players love it here.

I'm more than happy to dump Okafor and Ariza, but I'm not giving up value to make it happen. That's just throwing good money after bad. I think we're better off shopping Booker and/or Vesely directly for late draft picks, than we would be to use them to acquire cap room, and then use the cap room to acquire picks.

Dat's comment: What value? Vesely cannot play. He's not a big loss. Booker is backup PF, he's easily replaceable. Everyone is easily replaceable. Why are we so fixed on holding to mediocre assets?

If Ariza keeps playing the way he has been playing, he might be tradeable for an expiring contract if a contender is in need of a defensive SF. Likewise with Okafor. We need to be patient. When Wall and Nene get back and we start playing like a marginally competent basketball team, some of our dead weight will start to look a bit more appealing.

Dat's comments: Again, i see no reason to delay the inevitable. If I felt guys like Booker, Crawford, Vesely & Singleton where really worth it, then I'd be more hesitant. Of course, I wouldn't start off offering those players, but if they help get deals done or get something respectable in return then I'm all for it.


I definitely wouldn't trade Nene yet. If we dump Okafor and Ariza, we'll have $17M in cap room next summer. - even more if we ended up dumping Vesely, Crawford or Booker in the process. I'd rather have Nene plus $20M in cap room than no Nene and $33M in cap room. Players might actually be interested in joining a team with Wall, Nene, Beal and Seraphin. They won't join a team with just Wall, Beal and Seraphin.

Dat's comments: Well Nene would have to get back on the court first, but I have no expectation that Nene can stay healthy at this stage in his career. To me, he's the trade priority. I couldn't care less about his level of performance or his leadership, if he's not on the court, his presence doesn't matter.

And I disagree with you, a gimpy Nene isn't enticing anyone to come play with us. Your also forgetting that top 5 pick we'd have as well. Wall, Beal, Seraphin and a Zeller or Muhammad along with $30+ mil in cap room seems like an exciting option to me. Far, far better than where we all right now.


There are all sorts of opportunities available under that scenario.

hands11 wrote:Of course Dray was an idiot. So were the fans for endlessly booing him. Had they not done that, they could have actually keep him around and traded him when his value wasn't rock bottom.
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Post#1193 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:47 pm by Nivek

I lean much more to Dat's view on this roster. There's no one on this roster who's difficult to replace. Wall and Beal are POTENTIALLY difficult to replace, depending on how they develop.

This roster was a bad idea from the outset -- even if they had a few wins at this point. It's an accumulation of mediocre (and worse) players. There's just no reason to cling to these guys. I'd rather clear the decks and rebuild around Wall and Beal (HOPING they put in the work to develop) than stay the course with what they have.
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Post#1194 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:51 pm by Jajwanda

What's the price on Webster?
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Post#1195 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:57 pm by mhd

My latest:

Wiz trade Nene for Barnes+Biedrins
Philly trades Turner+Thad Young for Nene
GSW trades Biedrins+Barnes for Thad Young+Turner

NEW LINEUPS:
Philly:
PG: Holliday/Ivey
SG: Richardson/Young
SF: Wright/Young
PF: Nene/Moultrie
C: Bynum/Hawes

GSW:
PG: Curry/Jack
SG: Thompson/Turner
SF: Young/Jefferson
PF: Lee/Landry
C: Bogut/Ezeli

Wiz:
PG: Wall/Price
SG: Beal/Crawford
SF: Barnes/Webster
PF: Booker/Singleton
C: Seraphin/Emeka

WHY FOR THE 76ers?
1) Nene is slated to come back in around 3 weeks. They want to win now. To do so, they decide to go big and play Nene with Bynum when both return.

WHY FOR THE WARRIORS?
1) Turner needs the ball in hands to be effective. Curry and Thompson are excellent shooters who can play off of Turner when he's on the floor. Thompson can also slide to the 3.
2) Thad Young is an explosive combo forward.
3) They get rid of Biedrins who is useless.

WHY FOR THE WIZARDS?
1) They build around a Wall-Beal-Barnes set with Seraphin manning the middle. They also slice 2 years off of Nene's deal.
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Post#1196 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:59 pm by mhd

BTW, I think a Nene for Thad Young+Turner deal would also be on the table b/c I think Philly does that deal in a heartbeat.
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Post#1197 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:55 pm by LyricalRico

mhd wrote:BTW, I think a Nene for Thad Young+Turner deal would also be on the table b/c I think Philly does that deal in a heartbeat.


Not sure they go for it. They could then have two bigs with health concerns. Maybe over the summer after Nene (hopefully) shows he can come back and healthy every night. But at that point, why trade him? Or at least why trade him for solid but not great swingmen?
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Post#1198 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:37 am by rockymac52

So I was thinking about potential trades for us, which eventually led me to the Jazz message board, and now I'm focusing on working out a trade with them.

Here's the low-down:

The Jazz, as constructed, are decent. Not good, not bad. Same as last year for the most part. The West is incredibly deep this year, so they may not sneak in as an 8 seed this year, even though they're just as good, if not better than they were a year ago. They are aware of this, however, and while they are a competitive team as is, they know they are building for the future still. The Jazz are in a really interesting situation this year, with a big man rotation of Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, Derrick Favors, and Enes Kanter. Obviously Favors and Kanter are their future down low. But at the same time, Jefferson and Millsap are both damn good players in their own right at the moment, and they still start for the Jazz. Not only do the Jazz have a surplus of talented big men on their roster, and a need for a better back court, but Jefferson and Millsap's contracts both happen to expire this season.

So if they don't trade one or both of them (or one or both of Favors and Kanter, to be fair) by season's end, then they'll hit free agency. The Jazz could decide to try and re-sign one or both of them, but bringing back both seems illogical seeing as it's going to cost a ton of money, and they'll still have the issue of not having enough minutes in the front court to go around. It is more possible that they'll try to re-sign one of them though, although it remains to be seen if they have a strong preference one way or another as to which one of them they keep. It's also possible they don't re-sign either of them, either because they choose not to, or because the players decide to sign elsewhere (a very possible outcome, because they are well aware of the surplus of big men in Utah, and they want to be somewhere that they know they'll play).

So the logical decision for the Jazz would be to trade one or both of them (Millsap and Jefferson, that is) at some point this season to acquire an asset or two, as opposed to losing them for nothing, or possibly sign and trading them away for a Trade Exception.

Currently they need to bolster their other three positions.

Right now here's what they've got:
PG: Mo Williams/Jamaal Tinsley/Earl Watson
SG: Randy Foye/Alec Burks/Raja Bell
SF: Marvin Williams/Gordon Hayward

Hayward plays a decent amount at SG as well, I believe.

So as you can see, it's a weak spot. A SF rotation of Williams and Hayward is actually pretty solid though. But outside of those two players, there really isn't much of anything talent-wise. Mo Williams is okayyy, but he's expiring, and he's clearly not ideally anyone's starting PG at this point in his career. Tinsley, Watson, and Bell are worthless. Foye is, well, we know Randy. And Burks is looking like a journeyman at best, although Jazz fans seem to be a little more optimistic that he's their SG of the future. I'm not so sure though.

In addition to their own 1st round pick in this coming draft, they also have Golden State's 1st round pick (top 6 protected). So that's most likely 2 1st round picks in the 7-16 range, IMO.


Anyways, I thought their unique situation might result in a possible trade opportunity for us, so I checked out their message board. Who knows if their message board is very representative at all of what the Jazz organization actually thinks, but they seem to be more than ready to part ways with Jefferson and/or Millsap. They expect Jefferson is going to cost about 4 years/$50 million on the open market, and they seem to agree that it's not worth it to them. They expect Millsap is going to cost about 4 years/$40 million, and they're more open to that, but still not that thrilled. Personally, I'd take Millsap over Jefferson any day of the week, especially if he's $10 million cheaper.

So I'm working on trades that would send Millsap to the Wizards.

Outside of our draft pick, and a few so-so prospects that we could throw together, we don't really have much to offer the Jazz for Millsap (because we're not trading Wall or Beal). So unless they get really desperate and no one is offering them anything, I can't see it working out.

But I did find one 3 way trade that I think makes a lot of sense for everybody involved.


TOR Out: Jose Calderon
TOR In: Emeka Okafor + UTA 2013 1st round pick

UTA Out: Paul Millsap + UTA 2013 1st round pick
UTA In: Jose Calderon + Jan Vesely + WAS 2013 1st round pick

WAS Out: Emeka Okafor + Jan Vesely + WAS 2013 1st round pick
WAS In: Paul Millsap

Why for Toronto: Calderon is expiring this year, and he's currently their backup PG. Toronto fans (who I have gathered are beyond delusional) would be willing to re-sign Calderon for about 3 years/$15 million or so. Personally I think Calderon will get more than that. And if he doesn't, then he might as well go to a contender instead of being the backup PG in Toronto. So basically, Calderon's almost definitely a goner after this season. They'd pick up Okafor who could be a decent addition down low, and he's only on the books for 1 more year, so it doesn't hurt them too much. They pick up Utah's 1st round pick (this could also be Golden State's pick instead) in the process. Utah's pick after making this trade is probably in the 10-14 range, IMO. So the Raptors rent a capable veteran big man for the next year, and they pick up a late lottery pick, just for giving up a guy who is almost definitely leaving anyways.

Why for Utah: Like I alluded to before, they have a surplus of big men, and Millsap is expiring this year. They don't need him because of their depth down low, and they might as well get something in return for him while they can. They could get Calderon for this season, and hopefully they'd agree on an extension for a reasonable amount of money. Calderon isn't a stud PG by any means, but he's a huge upgrade over Mo Williams. They'd also pick up Vesely in the process, who would simply be a backup big man for depth after losing Millsap (and possibly Jefferson). We could probably change Vesely to Booker or Singleton, if need be. And it got tricky predicting which of the draft picks are likely the most valuable, especially after factoring this trade, but I figured the Jazz would rather have the Wizards pick than their own. Yes, the Wizards would be better with Millsap, and if you add a healthy Wall and Nene back into the mix soon, then maybe they turn it around quickly and the pick ends up late lottery or so, but there's also the very real chance that they continue to be terrible, and it could easily be a top 5 pick.

Why for Washington: Emeka Okafor is solid, but he's nothing more than average. He's very replaceable. There's no denying that Millsap is a huge upgrade over Okafor. Same goes for Vesely, even if you buy into his potential down the road. Wizards would have Millsap and Nene starting down low. That's a great duo, and actually a fantastic combination, considering their strengths and weaknesses. We give up what could be a very high pick, but this draft class might not be that strong, and regardless, we clearly have had our issues with drafting the best players, not to mention developing them afterwards. At this point, I'll give up our high draft pick for a guy as good and relatively young as Millsap. This all, of course, hinges on Millsap's agreement to sign an extension with the Wizards at the time of the trade. If the Jazz fans are right, and we can get him at 4 years/$40 million I'd be THRILLED. But even if they're wrong, and it's more like 4 years/$50 million, I think Millsap's a guy who's worth it. Especially when you consider that we'd still be shedding salary by getting rid of Okafor and Vesely, at least in this coming year. And then we've got our core of Wall/Beal/Nene/Millsap. That's potentially a pretty damn good crew.

Thoughts?
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Post#1199 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:55 pm by miller31time

I like the idea but that 2013 1st rounder is simply too much to give up. You're correct that this draft is weak but the top of it is strong and we're projected to be around the top (especially if Wall and Nene are out longer than the Wizards expect -- which I fully expect).

Cody Zeller, Shabazz Muhammed or Nerlens Noel would all help this team significantly and potentially be game-changers in a way a complementary player like Bradley Beal cannot.
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Post#1200 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:07 pm by rockymac52

miller31time wrote:I like the idea but that 2013 1st rounder is simply too much to give up. You're correct that this draft is weak but the top of it is strong and we're projected to be around the top (especially if Wall and Nene are out longer than the Wizards expect -- which I fully expect).

Cody Zeller, Shabazz Muhammed or Nerlens Noel would all help this team significantly and potentially be game-changers in a way a complementary player like Bradley Beal cannot.


I understand that there's some risk involved, for precisely this reason. However, I think it's still a move worth making.

Even if we continue to be terrible, with or without Wall and/or Nene, and come lottery night we get lucky and get one of the top picks, I'm just not that impressed with anyone in the draft yet. There's guys I like, but no one strikes me as a star. It's early on in the season, very early, and I obviously haven't been able to see Muhammed play yet because he's ineligible at the moment, and there's still plenty of time for them or other players to impress us. However, I don't feel comfortable saying that any of those players are necessarily in a talent-class any higher than Beal was/is. Who's to say that these guys are going to be stars (or for that matter, that Beal isn't going to be one)? I wouldn't be shocked to see all of them end up as just role players, or average starters.

Meanwhile, this would help us get a 27 year old big man, probably on a very reasonable contract considering how good he is. There are very few opportunities in the NBA to acquire an established all-star caliber player, especially at the ripe age of 27.

It also takes all of the uncertainty and guess-work out of it all. We don't have to rely on Ernie to draft the right guy, or our coaching staff to properly develop said player. We don't have to wait around for a season or two or three while that player (theoretically) develops. Instead, we can have someone who we KNOW is good, from day one.

I'd much rather have Millsap right now, pairing him with Wall, Beal, and Nene to form a really strong core, than once again wait another year or two for a player to hopefully develop, and very possibly not even develop. You know how some people weren't convinced we were a playoff team at the start of this season with the current squad? You add Millsap onto this roster, and there is no doubt we are a playoff team. That sounds pretty damn good to me!
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Post#1201 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:11 pm by Prokys Nets

Hey guys Nets fan here. Would you guys be open to the idea of a Nene for a Humphries/Brooks swap?
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Post#1202 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:19 pm by montestewart

Prokys Nets wrote:Hey guys Nets fan here. Would you guys be open to the idea of a Nene for a Humphries/Brooks swap?

Yes.
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Post#1203 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:16 pm by noworriesinmd

In a heart beat
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Post#1204 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:29 am by Knighthonor

trade Nene, Vesely, Booker, for a lotto pick of 2014.

that way the Wizards could possibly get both Wiggens and Parker
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Post#1205 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:32 pm by Wizardspride

Knighthonor wrote:trade Nene, Vesely, Booker, for a lotto pick of 2014.

that way the Wizards could possibly get both Wiggens and Parker

Wiggins and Parker? They play the same position.

Heck, I'll be satisfied with Muhammad in 2013.
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