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Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - 12/13/12)

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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1441 » by montestewart » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:26 am

Nivek wrote:Ariza is a bad shooter who does everything else on the floor at least decently. Ideally, he'd cut his usage from its current level (about 19% of the team's possessions while on the floor) to something closer to 10% (basically shooting layups and wide-open looks). At that point, his inefficiency would hurt a lot less and teams could use the rest of his contributions.

When Ariza was first with the Wizards in preseason and the first few games, he looked really lethargic, not just out of shape, but like he was in shock that he was playing for the Wizards. He seemed to recover pretty quickly and started to show his all around game. If Ariza drops his usage, his game looks a little closer to the Ariza of 2006-09, which was pretty good.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1442 » by dangermouse » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:17 am

Man, the Kings really suck. Maybe they would trade Cousins.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1443 » by TGW » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:51 pm

dangermouse wrote:Man, the Kings really suck. Maybe they would trade Cousins.


Cousins is a big reason why they suck. He's sloppy with the basketball, and is a piss poor defender. He does one thing well--rebound--and that's really about it. He's like Jordan Crawford on offense.

Any team that trades for this guy is just going to end up disappointed.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1444 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:56 pm

TGW wrote:
dangermouse wrote:Man, the Kings really suck. Maybe they would trade Cousins.


Cousins is a big reason why they suck. He's sloppy with the basketball, and is a piss poor defender. He does one thing well--rebound--and that's really about it. He's like Jordan Crawford on offense.

Any team that trades for this guy is just going to end up disappointed.

Our team is in dire need of talent, and Cousins has talent. I'd definitely trade for him if the asking price wasn't too big. Something like Seraphin + Vesely for Cousins seems pretty reasonable to me. I'm not sure if Sacramento is ready to bail on Cousins just yet, but if they do, I'd be ready with that offer. I wouldn't give up a future 1st rounder for him unless there was protection. There's too much risk.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1445 » by Nivek » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:07 pm

Someone in Sacramento doesn't understand the concept of efficiency. Cousins has an astronomical usage rate despite a persistently low shooting percentage and high turnovers. He can rebound, but he shouldn't be a first option on offense. Consider: 259 players have at least 250 total minutes this season. Among those 259 players, Cousins has the 5th highest usage rate and ranks 215th in offensive rating (points produced per 100 possessions). Now in his third season, he needs to either boost his efficiency or reduce his usage.

The combination of high usage and low efficiency handicaps his team. He's still extremely young and might improve. But he's going to have to change SOMETHING if he wants to help a team win.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1446 » by Induveca » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:47 pm

I'd bring in Cousins, realize he'll bring the same vibe to DC THIS year, and draft a scorer at SF for next year. Between Beal/Wall's hopeful shooting improvement and a shooting SF it SHOULD reduce Cousins' desire to jack up shots.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1447 » by Nivek » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:50 pm

Cousins had a very high usage rate in college too. His 2pt% was actually on the low side for a big man, and he had a lot of turnovers. Sorta sounds familiar. Still, overall he was reasonably efficient at Kentucky. Man that was a BEAST on the boards in college.

Check out Wojo's piece on Kevin Love and the Twolves. Love pretty much lays out that he's unhappy, the exact reasons why, and how he plans to remember it when his contract comes up.

Anyone up for a Nene and Wall for Love and Roy deal?

Okafor and Wall for Love and Roy?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1448 » by Illuminaire » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:05 pm

........

I had to search my soul, but the answer is yes. I'd prefer to give up Okafor/Wall, then package Nene to the Clippers for Eric Bledsoe.

I would feel pretty darned good about a Bledsoe/Love/Beal/2013 top 5 core. (We had better finish the year tanking like bouses, lol)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1449 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:36 pm

Nivek wrote:Cousins had a very high usage rate in college too. His 2pt% was actually on the low side for a big man, and he had a lot of turnovers. Sorta sounds familiar. Still, overall he was reasonably efficient at Kentucky. Man that was a BEAST on the boards in college.

Check out Wojo's piece on Kevin Love and the Twolves. Love pretty much lays out that he's unhappy, the exact reasons why, and how he plans to remember it when his contract comes up.

Anyone up for a Nene and Wall for Love and Roy deal?

Okafor and Wall for Love and Roy?

Either of those in a ny minute. Twice if possible. :)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1450 » by TGW » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:36 pm

Nivek wrote:Cousins had a very high usage rate in college too. His 2pt% was actually on the low side for a big man, and he had a lot of turnovers. Sorta sounds familiar. Still, overall he was reasonably efficient at Kentucky. Man that was a BEAST on the boards in college.

Check out Wojo's piece on Kevin Love and the Twolves. Love pretty much lays out that he's unhappy, the exact reasons why, and how he plans to remember it when his contract comes up.

Anyone up for a Nene and Wall for Love and Roy deal?

Okafor and Wall for Love and Roy?


I'm a Wall fan, but I'd be all over that. Kevin Love is a fantastic basketball player. Don't think they'd do it with Rubio in the picture, however.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1451 » by Illuminaire » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:42 pm

Khan is crazy like that though. He drafted Flynn, Rubio, AND Ty Lawson remember. He'll wheel and deal all day if they let him off his meds.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1452 » by nate33 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:45 am

Nivek wrote:Okafor and Wall for Love and Roy?

I don't see Minnesota being particularly interested in Wall with Rubio already on the roster. It would have to involve a 3rd team.

Washington trades: Wall for Love
Other Team trades: Good Player for Wall
Minnesota trades: Love for Good Player
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1453 » by Illuminaire » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:12 am

I repeat: Khan is craaaaazy.

I'd also suggest that Minnesota could trade Rubio while receiving Wall. For all the hype, Rubio's production wasn't really that spectacular. Wall and Ricky's rookie years are very comparable, with a slight edge to Wall overall (imo).
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1454 » by Severn Hoos » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:14 am

Would you trade the pick this summer for Greg Monroe, if the Pistons are looking to promote Drummond by the end of the season? Would they do that trade? Would it matter if it was #1 or #5?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1455 » by nate33 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:10 am

Severn Hoos wrote:Would you trade the pick this summer for Greg Monroe, if the Pistons are looking to promote Drummond by the end of the season? Would they do that trade? Would it matter if it was #1 or #5?

I don't think so. For all the hype that Monroe gets, that Detroit team still sucks. He can't be THAT good.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1456 » by GhostsOfGil » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:32 am

I always viewed Monroe as a Mcgee type player in the sense that his poor defense outweigh his offensive production. He has the 2nd worst on/off in detroit at -10.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1457 » by Mattya » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:18 am

Illuminaire wrote:I repeat: Khan is craaaaazy.

I'd also suggest that Minnesota could trade Rubio while receiving Wall. For all the hype, Rubio's production wasn't really that spectacular. Wall and Ricky's rookie years are very comparable, with a slight edge to Wall overall (imo).


So in essence you are saying Wall's rookie year wasn't that spectacular either?

Seriously though. Rubio's hype comes from his defense and how he helped a team win games. Not the typical things that are well seen on stat sheets.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1458 » by Illuminaire » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:02 pm

Mattya wrote:
Illuminaire wrote:I repeat: Khan is craaaaazy.

I'd also suggest that Minnesota could trade Rubio while receiving Wall. For all the hype, Rubio's production wasn't really that spectacular. Wall and Ricky's rookie years are very comparable, with a slight edge to Wall overall (imo).


So in essence you are saying Wall's rookie year wasn't that spectacular either?

Seriously though. Rubio's hype comes from his defense and how he helped a team win games. Not the typical things that are well seen on stat sheets.


I am - if Wall's rookie year had been truly spectacular, then we wouldn't be entertaining the possibility of trading him. He was good. Very good. But he was an inefficient scorer... as was Rubio. Aside from defense (which Wall is actually pretty good at himself, most nights), what mysterious qualities does the Spanish Boy Wonder bring to the table that can't be seen on paper?

Regardless, we're just shooting out various trade ideas. Rubio is a good player, but he doesn't seem to have greatness in him (from where we're standing) while Wall still has that upside, and Love has already reached that point. That's the basis of a trade for all parties, but it really comes down to Khan slightly undervaluing Love and slightly overvaluing his ability to make more trades. :P

Probably not terribly realistic, but also not entirely impossible. *shrug*
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1459 » by spaceman_E » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:07 pm

nate33 wrote:
Nivek wrote:Okafor and Wall for Love and Roy?

I don't see Minnesota being particularly interested in Wall with Rubio already on the roster. It would have to involve a 3rd team.

Washington trades: Wall for Love
Other Team trades: Good Player for Wall
Minnesota trades: Love for Good Player


Which teams are a fit? I can see Hawks, Jazz, Lakers, Kings, and maybe Hornets as teams with the need and talent to send to Minn. We would have to add more though as most teams would just try to snag Love instead of Wall.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - present) 

Post#1460 » by payitforward » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:50 pm

Illuminaire wrote:Khan is crazy like that though. He drafted Flynn, Rubio, AND Ty Lawson remember. He'll wheel and deal all day if they let him off his meds.

He *didn't* draft Ty Lawson -- the best of that bunch by far! He traded the pick to Denver (possibly the deal was formally structured in a way where he made the pick for them...?).

When we made the idiotic trade w/ him that same draft, I knew Ty Lawson was likely to be the best PG coming out and likely to be one of the top in the league for that matter (college numbers told me so). I was furious that our idiotic GM didn't manage to acquire that pick in the deal when it was obvious that Kahn was excited about Rubio and wouldn't give the later pick (#18, if I remember right) much value -- and that Lawson was pretty certain to be available at the spot.
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