yardbarker

NCAA Wiretap Headlines

Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - 12/13/12)

Moderators: miller31time, pineappleheadindc, LyricalRico, nate33, WizStorm

Post#1456 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:32 am by GhostsOfGil

I always viewed Monroe as a Mcgee type player in the sense that his poor defense outweigh his offensive production. He has the 2nd worst on/off in detroit at -10.
GhostsOfGil
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 8,318
And1: 790
Joined: Jul 5, 2006
Top

Post#1457 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:18 am by Mattya

Illuminaire wrote:I repeat: Khan is craaaaazy.

I'd also suggest that Minnesota could trade Rubio while receiving Wall. For all the hype, Rubio's production wasn't really that spectacular. Wall and Ricky's rookie years are very comparable, with a slight edge to Wall overall (imo).


So in essence you are saying Wall's rookie year wasn't that spectacular either?

Seriously though. Rubio's hype comes from his defense and how he helped a team win games. Not the typical things that are well seen on stat sheets.
Mattya


Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 6,871
And1: 909
Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Top

Post#1458 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:02 am by Illuminaire

Mattya wrote:
Illuminaire wrote:I repeat: Khan is craaaaazy.

I'd also suggest that Minnesota could trade Rubio while receiving Wall. For all the hype, Rubio's production wasn't really that spectacular. Wall and Ricky's rookie years are very comparable, with a slight edge to Wall overall (imo).


So in essence you are saying Wall's rookie year wasn't that spectacular either?

Seriously though. Rubio's hype comes from his defense and how he helped a team win games. Not the typical things that are well seen on stat sheets.


I am - if Wall's rookie year had been truly spectacular, then we wouldn't be entertaining the possibility of trading him. He was good. Very good. But he was an inefficient scorer... as was Rubio. Aside from defense (which Wall is actually pretty good at himself, most nights), what mysterious qualities does the Spanish Boy Wonder bring to the table that can't be seen on paper?

Regardless, we're just shooting out various trade ideas. Rubio is a good player, but he doesn't seem to have greatness in him (from where we're standing) while Wall still has that upside, and Love has already reached that point. That's the basis of a trade for all parties, but it really comes down to Khan slightly undervaluing Love and slightly overvaluing his ability to make more trades. :P

Probably not terribly realistic, but also not entirely impossible. *shrug*
Illuminaire
Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,435
And1: 101
Joined: Jan 4, 2010
Top

Post#1459 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:07 am by spaceman_E

nate33 wrote:
Nivek wrote:Okafor and Wall for Love and Roy?

I don't see Minnesota being particularly interested in Wall with Rubio already on the roster. It would have to involve a 3rd team.

Washington trades: Wall for Love
Other Team trades: Good Player for Wall
Minnesota trades: Love for Good Player


Which teams are a fit? I can see Hawks, Jazz, Lakers, Kings, and maybe Hornets as teams with the need and talent to send to Minn. We would have to add more though as most teams would just try to snag Love instead of Wall.
You don't win friends with salad.
spaceman_E
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,572
And1: 26
Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Top

Post#1460 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:50 am by payitforward

Illuminaire wrote:Khan is crazy like that though. He drafted Flynn, Rubio, AND Ty Lawson remember. He'll wheel and deal all day if they let him off his meds.

He *didn't* draft Ty Lawson -- the best of that bunch by far! He traded the pick to Denver (possibly the deal was formally structured in a way where he made the pick for them...?).

When we made the idiotic trade w/ him that same draft, I knew Ty Lawson was likely to be the best PG coming out and likely to be one of the top in the league for that matter (college numbers told me so). I was furious that our idiotic GM didn't manage to acquire that pick in the deal when it was obvious that Kahn was excited about Rubio and wouldn't give the later pick (#18, if I remember right) much value -- and that Lawson was pretty certain to be available at the spot.
People say I'm mellowing with age. Nah.

It is still not possible to formulate a counter-argument -- even if I say... Is so!
payitforward
Veteran
Posts: 2,979
And1: 401
Joined: May 1, 2012
Top

Post#1461 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:04 am by payitforward

Mattya wrote:...you are saying Wall's rookie year wasn't that spectacular either?

...Rubio's hype comes from his defense and how he helped a team win games. Not the typical things that are well seen on stat sheets.

Rubio ...doesn't seem to have greatness in him (from where we're standing) while Wall still has that upside....

Wall's rookie year ...was good. Very good.

No, not really. He produced at about an average level for a 20+ minute-a-game PG. No better. His year-2 WS40 showed an improvement but not a big improvement.

Rubio's rookie WS40 (yes, it's calculated off stat sheet numbers) was significantly better than Wall's rookie WS40 and also better than Wall's year-2 WS40.

Rubio is 5 weeks younger than John Wall -- why exactly doesn't he "seem to have greatness in him," given that he's been better than Wall (and was a year younger as a rookie, btw)?
People say I'm mellowing with age. Nah.

It is still not possible to formulate a counter-argument -- even if I say... Is so!
payitforward
Veteran
Posts: 2,979
And1: 401
Joined: May 1, 2012
Top

Post#1462 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:09 am by payitforward

payitforward wrote:
Mattya wrote:...you are saying Wall's rookie year wasn't that spectacular either?

...Rubio's hype comes from his defense and how he helped a team win games. Not the typical things that are well seen on stat sheets.


Illuminaire wrote:Rubio ...doesn't seem to have greatness in him (from where we're standing) while Wall still has that upside....

Wall's rookie year ...was good. Very good.

No, not really. He produced at about an average level for a 20+ minute-a-game PG. No better. His year-2 WS40 showed an improvement but not a big improvement.

Rubio's rookie WS40 (yes, it's calculated off stat sheet numbers) was significantly better than Wall's rookie WS40 and also better than Wall's year-2 WS40.

Rubio is 5 weeks younger than John Wall -- why exactly doesn't he "seem to have greatness in him," given that he's been better than Wall (and was a year younger as a rookie, btw)?
People say I'm mellowing with age. Nah.

It is still not possible to formulate a counter-argument -- even if I say... Is so!
payitforward
Veteran
Posts: 2,979
And1: 401
Joined: May 1, 2012
Top

Post#1463 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:11 am by payitforward

People say I'm mellowing with age. Nah.

It is still not possible to formulate a counter-argument -- even if I say... Is so!
payitforward
Veteran
Posts: 2,979
And1: 401
Joined: May 1, 2012
Top

Post#1464 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:29 am by nate33

payitforward wrote:Have you seen this...?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

Aaaargh!!!

Um... there's an entire thread about this. It's up to 6 pages already.
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
User avatar
Posts: 39,064
And1: 1,409
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
Top

Post#1465 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:34 am by Illuminaire

I've already shared my thoughts on WS as a measuring tool, PIF. You fall back on it every time... we're just going to have to disagree if that's your go to move, and I don't trust it as an accurate measure.
Illuminaire
Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,435
And1: 101
Joined: Jan 4, 2010
Top

Post#1466 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:08 pm by LyricalRico

A twist on nate's Nene-for-Bledsoe idea that includes Philly's desire for another scorer...

Wizards trade: Nene
Wizards receive: Bledsoe, Odom, and Kwame Brown

Clippers trade: Bledsoe, Odom, and Butler
Clippers receive: Nene, Dorell Wright, and PHI 2nd

Sixers trade: Wright, Brown, and 2nd
Sixers receive: Caron Butler

Maybe then follow that up with this:

Wizards trade: John Wall
Kings trade: Tyreke Evans and a pick

We end up with a young team and a cap that progressively clears over the next 2 seasons. Add a top 3 forward pick in next year's draft and we might have something.

Seraphin/Okafor
Booker/Singleton
Webster/Ariza
Evans/Beal
Bledsoe/Evans

(I'm assuming that Odom and Kwame would be bought out.)
LyricalRico


Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
User avatar
Posts: 28,483
And1: 247
Joined: May 22, 2002
Location: In Ernie We Trust!
Top

Post#1467 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:51 pm by nate33

After acquiring Bledsoe, I wouldn't necessarily follow by trading Wall. Both Bledsoe and Wall have the size to play SG so there really wouldn't be much problem playing them together.

If I traded Wall for Evans and a pick, that pick damn well better be Sacramento's unprotected 2013 pick.
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
User avatar
Posts: 39,064
And1: 1,409
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
Top

Post#1468 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:53 pm by nuposse04

^Cause yah know, Bledsoe's numbers aren't inflated by actually playing on a competent team. I Understand wanting to dumb Nene, but for all of Wall's issues I don't think Bledsoe, is, or ever will be better then him.
nuposse04


Head Coach
Posts: 7,218
And1: 1,257
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
Location: on a rock
Top

Post#1469 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:17 pm by Illuminaire

If only we had some way of knowing whether Bledsoe and Wall could work together as guards...
Illuminaire
Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,435
And1: 101
Joined: Jan 4, 2010
Top

Post#1470 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:02 pm by LyricalRico

Illuminaire wrote:If only we had some way of knowing whether Bledsoe and Wall could work together as guards...


:lol:

Touche
LyricalRico


Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
User avatar
Posts: 28,483
And1: 247
Joined: May 22, 2002
Location: In Ernie We Trust!
Top

Post#1471 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:35 pm by Dat2U

Illuminaire wrote:I've already shared my thoughts on WS as a measuring tool, PIF. You fall back on it every time... we're just going to have to disagree if that's your go to move, and I don't trust it as an accurate measure.


Agreed. Any statistical measure is going to have it flaws. It certainly can't be used as the lone piece to measure someone's value. IMO, you have to take into account a number of different statistical tools to get an overall picture of a players real impact.

Being solely dependent on one measuring tool and being so vociferous in your arguments to such is how one can wind up looking incredibly wrong and stupid in the long run.

Anyone knows how Landry Fields is doing up in Toronto these days?
Sig bet w/ ibraheim718 - I guarantee less than 20 wins for Lakers this year
Dat2U




RealGM
Posts: 16,654
And1: 904
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
Top

Post#1472 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:57 pm by dangermouse

fishercob mentioned in the Harden thread about trading for Gay.

I just wanted to say, no way. It would (probably) take us giving up our first. Right now we are playing on track to draft Shabazz, who I think could be as good as Gay, and with a much cooler name.
Fri Jul 5, 2013 4:36 am by dangermouse
dangermouse wrote:44 is my best guess.

I think we make the playoffs, no lower than 6th seed.
dangermouse
Assistant Coach
User avatar
Posts: 4,158
And1: 214
Joined: Dec 8, 2009
Top

Post#1473 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:02 pm by montestewart

Illuminaire wrote:I've already shared my thoughts on WS as a measuring tool, PIF. You fall back on it every time... we're just going to have to disagree if that's your go to move, and I don't trust it as an accurate measure.

I like the WS measure, but I agree with your premise. Like other measures, WS can slight some and over-reward others that happen to be overly strong or weak in a key area of the system. Still, you could legitimately arrive at the same conclusion about Wall using other means, including just looking at his shooting % from the 2 and 3 and his turnovers, especially coupled with the team's record. I still think Wall has the tools to be an all-star (maybe they could try surrounding him with some scorers), but right now I'd be happy to see him return healthy, and just work on being really good.
montestewart
General Manager
Posts: 8,057
And1: 1,022
Joined: Feb 24, 2009
Top

Post#1474 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:33 pm by Benjammin

dangermouse wrote:fishercob mentioned in the Harden thread about trading for Gay.

I just wanted to say, no way. It would (probably) take us giving up our first. Right now we are playing on track to draft Shabazz, who I think could be as good as Gay, and with a much cooler name.


I believe he was saying that would be a typical Wizards/Boulez short-term move that looks good on paper. It was by no means a good thing in his mind, I believe.
Benjammin
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,391
And1: 36
Joined: Jan 17, 2003
Location: Richmond VA
Top

Post#1475 Re: Official Trade Thread XX (6/22/12 - pres
Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:02 am by dangermouse

Yeah I kinda got that, just wanted to bring it over to this thread so I could formalise what I would think of said trade.
Fri Jul 5, 2013 4:36 am by dangermouse
dangermouse wrote:44 is my best guess.

I think we make the playoffs, no lower than 6th seed.
dangermouse
Assistant Coach
User avatar
Posts: 4,158
And1: 214
Joined: Dec 8, 2009
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Washington Wizards


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users