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Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1161 » by LyricalRico » Tue May 28, 2013 10:45 pm

Looks like a flurry of head coach hirings. Charlotte continues to hire guys nobody has ever heard of.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1162 » by verbal8 » Wed May 29, 2013 3:07 am

LyricalRico wrote:Looks like a flurry of head coach hirings. Charlotte continues to hire guys nobody has ever heard of.


He is apparently a well-regarded assistant. It is a little strange that his head coaching experience is 4 years at Division II. It is true they were pretty successful(20+ wins), but that is a bit of a jump.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1163 » by Liver_Pooty » Wed May 29, 2013 6:17 am

LyricalRico wrote:Looks like a flurry of head coach hirings. Charlotte continues to hire guys nobody has ever heard of.


Rick Bonnell ‏@rick_bonnell 13h
Stan Van Gundy told me Clifford was ready to be NBA coach before Stan hired him. Much more in tomorrow's Observer.

Rick Bonnell ‏@rick_bonnell 13h
Tom Thibodeau texted Stan Van Gundy "This is a great day for all of us" regarding Bobcats hiring Steve Clifford.

Rick Bonnell ‏@rick_bonnell 27 May
Jeff Van Gundy on Steve Clifford: "This guy has It. When he gets his opportunity, he'll knock it out of the park."


I had never heard of him either, but he is extremely well respected among inner NBA circles.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1164 » by verbal8 » Wed May 29, 2013 11:40 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:I had never heard of him either, but he is extremely well respected among inner NBA circles.


It looks like Thibodeau was never a head coach before the Bulls. It looks like that worked out ok. Probably a better idea to try and find the next Tom Thibodeau, than to hire a re-tread.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1165 » by pancakes3 » Wed May 29, 2013 3:33 pm

verbal8 wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:I had never heard of him either, but he is extremely well respected among inner NBA circles.


It looks like Thibodeau was never a head coach before the Bulls. It looks like that worked out ok. Probably a better idea to try and find the next Tom Thibodeau, than to hire a re-tread.


Thibs was the highly sought-after defensive coordinator of the '08 Celtics (statistically the greatest defense of all time). It's similar to but not exactly how Eddie Jordan was a mildly sought-after offensive coordinator of the '03 Nets (statistically a middle-of-the-pack offense that season).
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1166 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed May 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Looking back at the contract Larry Hughes got from Cleveland based in on his offensive numbers as a Wizards, EJ's reputation was earned. Jamison and Butler played in AS games as Wizards. Jeffries had his two best offensive seasons playing on EJ's Wizards.

Washington advanced to round two of the playoffs a year after going 25-57 under EJ. No other Bullets/Wizards team has been to round two since 1978. EJ made the playoffs 4 straight seasons. After making the playoffs with Gilbert injured almost the whole season, EJ was fired. Four straight seasons EJ coached them to 40+ wins and second in the Southeastern Division. Since EJ they were fifth (out of 5) three straight seasons. Win totals have been 19, 26, 23, 20 and 29.

Ernie Grunfeld has held on to his job after firing EJ 12 regular season games after a playoff loss.

I think Eddie coached his best without Arenas. I enjoyed the much-maligned Princeton offense that had Daniels, Stevenson, and Mason Jr. make it to the playoffs. Over seveal seasons on DC, EJ's roster was severely depleted by injuries or he would have had a couple 50-win teams . (How many times did Butler miss playoff or regular season games? And Gilbert?). I get sick of people knocking a guy who BY FAR had the best coaching run of any Washington coach the last 35 years.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1167 » by nate33 » Wed May 29, 2013 6:10 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Looking back at the contract Larry Hughes got from Cleveland based in on his offensive numbers as a Wizards, EJ's reputation was earned. Jamison and Butler played in AS games as Wizards. Jeffries had his two best offensive seasons playing on EJ's Wizards.

Washington advanced to round two of the playoffs a year after going 25-57 under EJ. No other Bullets/Wizards team has been to round two since 1978. EJ made the playoffs 4 straight seasons. After making the playoffs with Gilbert injured almost the whole season, EJ was fired. Four straight seasons EJ coached them to 40+ wins and second in the Southeastern Division. Since EJ they were fifth (out of 5) three straight seasons. Win totals have been 19, 26, 23, 20 and 29.

Ernie Grunfeld has held on to his job after firing EJ 12 regular season games after a playoff loss.

I think Eddie coached his best without Arenas. I enjoyed the much-maligned Princeton offense that had Daniels, Stevenson, and Mason Jr. make it to the playoffs. Over seveal seasons on DC, EJ's roster was severely depleted by injuries or he would have had a couple 50-win teams . (How many times did Butler miss playoff or regular season games? And Gilbert?). I get sick of people knocking a guy who BY FAR had the best coaching run of any Washington coach the last 35 years.

Meh, Eddie Jordan's offense only worked when he put four or five skilled offensive players on the floor, which is unimpressive because any offense works with that much offensive talent. The trick is to make an offense work with just 2 or 3 good offensive players so that you can have room for a couple of elite defenders in the lineup as well.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1168 » by closg00 » Wed May 29, 2013 6:38 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Looks like a flurry of head coach hirings. Charlotte continues to hire guys nobody has ever heard of.


.....and a flurry of GM firings also :D
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1169 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed May 29, 2013 6:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Looking back at the contract Larry Hughes got from Cleveland based in on his offensive numbers as a Wizards, EJ's reputation was earned. Jamison and Butler played in AS games as Wizards. Jeffries had his two best offensive seasons playing on EJ's Wizards.

Washington advanced to round two of the playoffs a year after going 25-57 under EJ. No other Bullets/Wizards team has been to round two since 1978. EJ made the playoffs 4 straight seasons. After making the playoffs with Gilbert injured almost the whole season, EJ was fired. Four straight seasons EJ coached them to 40+ wins and second in the Southeastern Division. Since EJ they were fifth (out of 5) three straight seasons. Win totals have been 19, 26, 23, 20 and 29.

Ernie Grunfeld has held on to his job after firing EJ 12 regular season games after a playoff loss.

I think Eddie coached his best without Arenas. I enjoyed the much-maligned Princeton offense that had Daniels, Stevenson, and Mason Jr. make it to the playoffs. Over seveal seasons on DC, EJ's roster was severely depleted by injuries or he would have had a couple 50-win teams . (How many times did Butler miss playoff or regular season games? And Gilbert?). I get sick of people knocking a guy who BY FAR had the best coaching run of any Washington coach the last 35 years.

Meh, Eddie Jordan's offense only worked when he put four or five skilled offensive players on the floor, which is unimpressive because any offense works with that much offensive talent. The trick is to make an offense work with just 2 or 3 good offensive players so that you can have room for a couple of elite defenders in the lineup as well.


It worked with Daniels, Stevenson, Butler, Jamison, and Songaila. There was one elite defender on the roster, Brendan Haywood. Jamison AVERAGED 32 and 10 during the playoffs.

That is not a bunch of talent.

Four straight playoffs and in the five seasons since Washington has not even managed to win 30 games. Talk about EJ all you want...
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1170 » by nate33 » Wed May 29, 2013 7:10 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:It worked with Daniels, Stevenson, Butler, Jamison, and Songaila. There was one elite defender on the roster, Brendan Haywood. Jamison AVERAGED 32 and 10 during the playoffs.

That is not a bunch of talent.

Four straight playoffs and in the five seasons since Washington has not even managed to win 30 games. Talk about EJ all you want...

It's a bunch offensive talent. Jamison was a great offensive player. So was Butler that year. Songaila was a very good offensive player who never missed open shots.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1171 » by fishercob » Wed May 29, 2013 7:31 pm

Eddie deserves credit. Eddie deserves blame.

I think we can all agree that the roster he was given was fatally flawed; one common thread in the Wizards misery over the past decade has been Ernie Grunfeld.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1172 » by nate33 » Wed May 29, 2013 7:37 pm

The other common thread is that Eddie has pretty much failed wherever else he has gone. His stint in Philadelphia was an unmitigated disaster.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1173 » by LyricalRico » Wed May 29, 2013 7:55 pm

fishercob wrote:Eddie deserves blame.


Speaking of finding the next Tom Thibodeau, let's not forget that Ernie found the FIRST Tom Thibodeau and actually hired him. But EFJ (hired by Abe, not Ernie) ran him out of town after like a week.

:nonono:
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1174 » by Ruzious » Wed May 29, 2013 8:47 pm

Fwiw, for those interested in the Bux, this is from Mark Stein of ESPN:
There is a rising belief among NBA executives that the Milwaukee Bucks prefer to re-sign Monta Ellis over Brandon Jennings this offseason, when likely both will be free agents.

Ellis will become an unrestricted free agent if he opts out of the one season left on his contract.

Jennings will be a restricted free agent on July 1.

There is a sense the Bucks prefer Ellis and J.J. Redick in their backcourt moving forward.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1175 » by fishercob » Wed May 29, 2013 8:51 pm

Does Dallas have enough cap room to S&T for Jennings and sign Duh-wight?
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1176 » by LyricalRico » Wed May 29, 2013 10:44 pm

fishercob wrote:Does Dallas have enough cap room to S&T for Jennings and sign Duh-wight?


Assuming they use Marion's $9M+ expiring deal and Jennings accepts less than the max, then they could do it. But I don't think that's the way they should go, though. Dwight and Dirk both need a PG IMO, which Jennings is not. I think they'd be better off signing Chris Paul and building the rest of the team around him.

Hmmm, what about the other PG on LAC's roster? Marion's expiring and their pick for Bledsoe+Jordan? Then they would still have max cap space to sign or trade for a perimeter scorer. Maybe they lure Ellis away, pick up a floor spacer like Korver, and bring back some of their existing depth on the cheap?

Jordan/Wright
Dirk/Brand
Korver/Carter
Ellis/Mayo
Bledsoe/Akognon

Not great defensively, but pretty solid IMO. To contend again, though, they'd be banking on Bledsoe becoming a star.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1177 » by sfam » Thu May 30, 2013 1:06 am

My favorite headline of the day:
Cavaliers, Mavericks, Bobcats Interested In DeMarcus Cousins

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/227888/Cavaliers-Mavericks-Bobcats-Interested-In-DeMarcus-Cousins

Why is it my favorite? Because the Wizards aren't mentioned as being interested in this cancerous team-killing, but talented train wreck!
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1178 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 30, 2013 2:28 am

LyricalRico wrote:
fishercob wrote:Eddie deserves blame.


Speaking of finding the next Tom Thibodeau, let's not forget that Ernie found the FIRST Tom Thibodeau and actually hired him. But EFJ (hired by Abe, not Ernie) ran him out of town after like a week.

:nonono:


That happened in July, 2007. I remember thinking it was a very bad turn of events. EJ ran off the help he needed defensively. Either he knew that was EG's replacement for him, or he was very loyal to O'Koren.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1179 » by TGW » Thu May 30, 2013 1:52 pm

It looks like Toronto is going to land Ujiri. That sucks...I have no doubt Toronto is going to be a much improved team in the next few years. If we're still stuck with Grunfeld, we're really going to be left behind in the EC.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2 

Post#1180 » by FAH1223 » Thu May 30, 2013 2:38 pm

TGW wrote:It looks like Toronto is going to land Ujiri. That sucks...I have no doubt Toronto is going to be a much improved team in the next few years. If we're still stuck with Grunfeld, we're really going to be left behind in the EC.


hey, if we're in the lottery next year its a win-win :D new GM, new coach, a solid pick..maybe even Wall already re-signed.
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