Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2

[Ruzious]

Nice trade by Memphis. Prince seems to be having a solid year, so hopefully he's got something left in the tank. And Ed Davis gives them a solid backup up front. So, Toronto has both Gay and Bargnani - probably not a great combo. I guess their next goal is to find a taker for Bargs. I think Amir Johnson and Jonas V could actually be a good combo up front for them next season.

[Induveca]

DeRozan/Gay/Bargnani? Ugh....won't be pretty.

[MikeTheKid]

^^^No defense whatsoever

[dangermouse]

Glad we didnt get Gay. No homophobe.

[FAH1223]

^^^No defense whatsoever

Rudy is a pretty good defender.. the others, SUCK.

This trade shows that Colangelo is worse than EG.

"Once Aaron Gray and Linas Kleiza pick up their player options for next season, the Raptors will be over the luxury tax featuring a core of Gay, DeMar DeRozan and Andrea Bargnani."

WOW.

Memphis is clearly the winner in this trade. Prince is still playing at a solid level and can still defend pretty good despite his lost athleticism. Daye gives that team a shooter which they lack... and Ed Davis will be a good understudy to Randolph and Gasol backing them up along with Arthur.

Grizzlies should have tried to get Ross but they'll probably make another move to get a scorer from the perimeter.

[verbal8]

^^^No defense whatsoever

Rudy is a pretty good defender.. the others, SUCK.

This trade shows that Colangelo is worse than EG.

"Once Aaron Gray and Linas Kleiza pick up their player options for next season, the Raptors will be over the luxury tax featuring a core of Gay, DeMar DeRozan and Andrea Bargnani."

WOW.

Memphis is clearly the winner in this trade. Prince is still playing at a solid level and can still defend pretty good despite his lost athleticism. Daye gives that team a shooter which they lack... and Ed Davis will be a good understudy to Randolph and Gasol backing them up along with Arthur.

Grizzlies should have tried to get Ross but they'll probably make another move to get a scorer from the perimeter.

The rumor was that Ross was off limits. I can't believe the raptors gave up assets to acquire Gay. Davis isn't a star but he is young, big and productive. And on a rookie deal to boot. Calderon isn't a star either but he is a playmaker.

I think the pistons got a fair deal. They got some flexibility without a huge sacrifice.

[Nivek]

DeRozan/Gay/Bargnani? Ugh....won't be pretty.

We now have an answer to the age-old question: Is there a GM at least as bad as Ernie Grunfeld?

Yep.

[Ruzious]

Thing is - as bad as Toronto's GM's choices have been, Toronto could easily be turned into one of the better young rosters in the East next season, imo.

[mohammed10]

DeRozan/Gay/Bargnani? Ugh....won't be pretty.

We now have an answer to the age-old question: Is there a GM at least as bad as Ernie Grunfeld?

Yep.

Well, at least DeRozan, Gay and Ross are all athletic - something that our squad so glaringly lacks

[Nivek]

What's kinda funny about your comment mohammed is that Leonsis and Grunfeld have talked publicly about how they're trying to build a team around guys who are good at running and jumping. Their theory being that they'll be good matches with Wall, who is good at running and jumping.

[nate33]

DeRozan/Gay/Bargnani? Ugh....won't be pretty.

We now have an answer to the age-old question: Is there a GM at least as bad as Ernie Grunfeld?

Yep.

Well, at least DeRozan, Gay and Ross are all athletic - something that our squad so glaringly lacks

That's ridiculous. Our squad does not lack athleticism. Our athleticism is fine, except for Nene because he is playing on one foot. Wall, Ariza and Booker are absolute freak athletes. Beal, Webster, Vesely and Seraphin have above-average athleticism for their position. Okafor, Price and Crawford are about average. Our squad lacks skill, not athleticism.

And, yes, what a terrible move by Toronto. That team peaks at 40 wins if everyone stays healthy, and they had to exceed the luxtax to do it.

[Nivek]

By the way, I agree with nate about the Wizards athleticism. There's nothing wrong with their athletic ability. Unfortunately, basketball is a game of skill AND athleticism. Having good athletes is a good thing -- so long as they're also skilled.

[montestewart]

Our athleticism is fine, except for Nene because he is playing on one foot. Wall, Ariza and Booker are absolute freak athletes. Beal, Webster, Vesely and Seraphin have above-average athleticism for their position. Okafor, Price and Crawford are about average. Our squad lacks skill, not athleticism.

The McGee for Nene trade is the primary move to balance athleticism with skill. The abundance of average to excellent athletes illustrates the shortcomings of run-and-jump ball, the shortcomings of Terd and Ernie's roster building skills, and the shallowness of Terd's repeated pronouncements regarding the squad. In a vacuum, acquiring Gay, Smith, or similar would add an exciting player, but it probably wouldn't go very far toward moving the squad toward contender status without extensive roster reconstruction

[mohammed10]

By the way, I agree with nate about the Wizards athleticism. There's nothing wrong with their athletic ability. Unfortunately, basketball is a game of skill AND athleticism. Having good athletes is a good thing -- so long as they're also skilled.

Fair enough. I can agree with athleticism AND skill.

[mohammed10]

That's ridiculous. Our squad does not lack athleticism. Our athleticism is fine, except for Nene because he is playing on one foot. Wall, Ariza and Booker are absolute freak athletes. Beal, Webster, Vesely and Seraphin have above-average athleticism for their position. Okafor, Price and Crawford are about average. Our squad lacks skill, not athleticism.

And, yes, what a terrible move by Toronto. That team peaks at 40 wins if everyone stays healthy, and they had to exceed the luxtax to do it.

nate - I often agree with your assessment of the team, as you and many other Wizards' fans have far more knowledge of all things Wizards. However, I wonder why our GM and Owner seem to think that skill and athleticism are mutually exclusive? Those players cost $$$. It is the hidden gem that is athletic, skilled AND on a rookie contract (or something close to it).

[pancakes3]

There is definitely diminishing returns on athleticism in the NBA. A step faster in football is the difference between a TD and an incomplete. In basketball, I don't think most players ever have to dead out sprint, or all-out jump for it to matter.

[Nivek]

There is definitely diminishing returns on athleticism in the NBA. A step faster in football is the difference between a TD and an incomplete. In basketball, I don't think most players ever have to dead out sprint, or all-out jump for it to matter.

I think size of the playing surface is important. On a football field there's enough space for small differences in speed, quickness, strength to become meaningful. On a basketball court, everything is compressed -- a fast break might take 3 seconds.

In basketball, I think "burst" -- that first step -- is far more important than full-court speed. Anticipation, positioning, strength, and the quickness of the jump is more important than how high a guy is able to leap.

Back to football, while "run and jump" athleticism can be more important there than in basketball, skill is tremendously important. Line play, for example, is a kind of martial art almost. A blazing fast receiver who can't make sharp cuts won't get separation. For a running back, agility and balance are probably more important than straight ahead speed.

[Dat2U]

The Wizards lack offensive skill. It's compounded by the fact Wall is still a raw developing PG with an insane amount of athleticism but his skill level needs to improve as well. Beal is a 19 yr that's learning on the job and his skills are still in development as well. But with both Wall & Beal the promise & work ethic appears is there so patience is a good virtue to have in this situation. In the right situation both could excel now even though they have not reached their ceiling and their skills are still being developed.

The problem is how the roster is constructed around these two. Outside of Martell Webster there's no one that defenses must account for on the perimeter. Crawford has his moments and has shown gradual improvement from last season but he's still not a reliable option from the perimeter and the shot selection is still horrible. Ariza is as inconsistent as always and none of our bigs can really step out beyond 15-18 ft, and even then... outside of Nene, none hit that shot with regularity. Defenses just pack the paint give all sorts of looks to Okafor, just begging him and any other big to take that 15 ft jumper.

Thusly there are absolutely no driving lanes for Wall in half court sets. Often he tries to create one where there isn't with mixed the results. He struggles to finish at the rim when he's trying to finish over 2/3 people like he was last night. I am also frustrated by the lack of range from 3. I'm really upset that coaches have been apparently telling him to focus more on the mid-range game. I think that's just plain stupid. A reliable 3 would have been much better.

I would think the lack of player development should be becoming apparent to Leonsis at some point. Booker looks to have regressed. And he's a solid rotation player when he's right. Seraphin has regressed after a nice burst the 2nd half of last season (which likely helped saved Wittman's job). Vesely & Singleton have made absolutely no progress from their nondescript rookie seasons. And your franchise player is in his 3rd season in a situation that is STILL completely ill-fitted for his talents.

Wall will be fine. Stardom might be delayed for him but he's going to have to get away from the 2nd worst front office in the league (cough, Raptors, cough) to make that happen.

[payitforward]

WOW.

Memphis is clearly the winner in this trade....

Detroit did well too. They took on a couple of million extra salary this year only and got rid of a $15m obligation to a guy whose skills are almost gone (no offense meant to a one-time good player who, like everyone else, got old). They gave up Daye, but he isn't a contributor anyway.

They have $27m guaranteed to 9 guys next year, and they have Villanueva too whom they can amnesty. 8 of the 9 are quite young. They are in a position to rebuild around Drummond who is looking like an absolute steal -- by far the best player in the draft so far and posting numbers like one of the top Centers in the league already.

[Rafael122]

My only gripe about this trade is that Memphis didn't have to do it this year. They were under the luxury tax. They could have gotten those same players in an offseason trade. They didn't necessarily have to do it now. You can talk about how Gay is overrated and overpaid, fine. But...IDK...Dat always talks about how there's only a handful of teams who are legit title contenders. I think Memphis now put themselves on that second, maybe even the third tier.

I will say this though, if this move has Hollinger's fingerprints on this, it could very well make or break him career wise. Woj got in a zinger on him in his article. Doesn't like Hollinger is highly regarded, but then again, if a numbers guy can say you can get more or equal production for less money, any owner would hire you.