Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza-Part II

[Nivek]

A faster pace doesn't fix things -- pace doesn't cause efficiency or inefficiency. If the team is getting more transition baskets, their efficiency should improve overall. But, Wall is often a one-man fast break, not necessarily a guy who's pushing the ball and then dishing to a finisher.

Ariza and Okafor are extremely likely to play better -- significantly better -- than they've played so far regardless of when/if Wall and Nene return.

[GhostsOfGil]

Now that's what I call a ringing endorsement: "There's no way OkAriza plays this poorly, when Wall and Nene return.

Ben, Just trying to cling to some optimism while we drown in a sea of turds.

[LyricalRico]

Ariza and Okafor are extremely likely to play better -- significantly better -- than they've played so far regardless of when/if Wall and Nene return.

Yeah, baby!

[verbal8]

Ariza and Okafor are extremely likely to play better -- significantly better -- than they've played so far regardless of when/if Wall and Nene return.

Yeah, baby!

They will probably also play better after EG is fired

[tontoz]

Ariza and Okafor are extremely likely to play better -- significantly better -- than they've played so far regardless of when/if Wall and Nene return.

Yeah, baby!

It would certainly be hard for them to play much worse.

[hands11]

Well since you'll keep beating this dead horse, I will beat mine.

@ this from Mr. Like-I-have-been-saying, I-told-you-last-year, etc.

The point many of us made at the time of the trade was that shelling out so much money for mediocre players made no sense. I haven't seen anything that would contradict that point of view.

Do you remember the guy who said last year that Vesely would be our franchise player this season?

No, I don't remember who said that. Who was it ?

As for whoever said it was a trade for mediocre players, who would you rather they have traded the Lewis contract for that was something that was actually viable to happen ? Who else had something we could use that would have taken on that contract ?

[Halcyon]

I gotta say that I was dead wrong. I really didn't think these two would be this useless, but they have been. It would have been better to buy Shard out and not take on additional contracts for next year.

[tontoz]

Well since you'll keep beating this dead horse, I will beat mine.

@ this from Mr. Like-I-have-been-saying, I-told-you-last-year, etc.

The point many of us made at the time of the trade was that shelling out so much money for mediocre players made no sense. I haven't seen anything that would contradict that point of view.

Do you remember the guy who said last year that Vesely would be our franchise player this season?

No, I don't remember who said that. Who was it ?

As for whoever said it was a trade for mediocre players, who would you rather they have traded the Lewis contract for that was something that was actually viable to happen ? Who else had something we could use that would have taken on that contract ?

LOL it was you. You were ranting against Wall early last year and said time and again that Vesely would end up being the franchise player this season. Pretty selective memory.

They shouldn't have traded Shard at all. Just buy him out.

[hands11]

Like everyone else, I've been extremely disappointed with Ariza and Okafor but I think Hands has a point. Right now, The Wizards are ranked towards the bottom at 19th in Pace factor. When Wall returns our fast break will come alive and I expect Ariza to be the biggest beneficiary of that. There's no way OkAriza plays this poorly, when Wall and Nene return.

Thats all I'm trying to point out.

We know neither these guys was worth their contracts and that they were specialty players. Ted/EG know that also. I think they walked into this with their eyes open. Ted wanted to trade the Lewis contract and this is what he found he could get. Both will look better when they get a true PG which we have. Neither is slated to be here long term and neither is a core piece. Beating on how stupid a move or is this was at this point of the game when we have only seen the worst of it, smells of opportunistic beating of Ted/EG from people with that disposition already.

The way I see it, there are valid things to complain about. You can complain that Ted should have bought out the Lewis contract. But he didn't want to do that and didn't. His money. His call.

and

Given that, what better deal could they have gotten for the Lewis contract.

[hands11]

Now that's what I call a ringing endorsement: "There's no way OkAriza plays this poorly, when Wall and Nene return.

There's no hindsight here. The vast majority of the board hated the trade at the time, and nothing has changed. It was simply Ted's way to attempt to recoup a sunken cost in Lewis, but ironically enough sunk even more cost into two at best mediocre players.

Plus, I love when people talk about the Wizards being mediocre. Other than a few of the good Gil years, they haven't even been mediocre. They've sucked. Except for a few Webber years, they've sucked. Since the mid 80s they've consistently sucked.

No mediocrity here.

You speak of the Wizards as if they are this one thing. They are not. You have with Abe owning them Wizards and with Ted owning them Wizards. Same name. Same stadium. Different owner, players, and head coach.

Since Ted has owned them, they hit the hard reset button. He said he would and he did. I expected them to suck for a few years. So did they. They even did a planned tank to get high draft picks. Many people here welcomed that approach and excepted the short term pain.

Its not all one big mess of Wizards suck except for a few years.

I like this rebuild way better then what I saw when Abe owned them. ( yes, we all have different picks instead)
This rebuild has some legs. And it has some defense which many of us have wanted for years.
It has a real PG which I have wanted forever.
It has no problem knuckleheads which is refreshing.

Clearly this team is better then other Wizards teams we have seen regarding their defense and their defensive players.

Clearly Randy is a very good defensive coach.

Clearly they have added good young talent.

They are moving in the right direction. We are all anxious to see what the complete product will look like when we add back our two best players.

So two years of tank and now what looks to be a team that when healthy could be a playoff team and it still have a ton of young players and they are not in cap hell.

So what is all the complaining about except to complain. Objectively, things look a ton better then they did when Abe owned them. And its only been two years and 3 games.

Sure they have some current challenges. But its nothing they can't work through. They have been in all three games and doing so while very shorthanded. Its going to get better and its going to happen this year.

Wall and Nene are scheduled for another doctor appointment. Hopefully we get good news on both.

[TGW]

Ariza and Okafor are extremely likely to play better -- significantly better -- than they've played so far regardless of when/if Wall and Nene return.

Yeah, baby!

They will probably also play better after EG is fired

[tontoz]

Not sure why is always amazes me how people take things so out of context but it does tend to be the same posters who do it.

I said, This (Vesely) is our franchise player. This kid will be the heart of the team by next year. So until next year happen, stuff it. Besides, it is my gut feeling and I have been very frustrated by what have have seen from Wall this year. What the hell do you care. Its a prediction about next year.

If you think I really care what you think, think again. For you to tell me my post are laughable is laughable considering the bunk you post. I have tried to play polite with your post but if you are going to came at me like this, I'm not going to bother. You want to drag the board down with this kind of bickering between posters, then lets do it.

viewtopic.php?f=35&p=29763863

[hands11]

Show me where I said he would be the franchise player this year ?

Yes, I was complaining a lot about Wall early last year. CCJ and myself were all over that. The guy was driving me nuts with how he wasn't adapting his game by doing the most basic thing which was change of pace moves. He eventually learned to do that later in the year. Then he regressed. Then he discovered it again. Since then, I have been a Wall believer for the long term.

As for Ves, sure. I have pimped Ves. Specially back then when I was sick of the knuckleheads here. And I was responding to people saying he was a bust ( still happens today) when I could see he had some talent. I was anti trading the kid. But I talk about Ves long term and I still believe in him long term. Regarding franchiseness, that involved his marketability, not just what he was doing on the floor. Ves-e-ly Ves-e-ly Ves-e-ly. I like the kids mocky. I like his court awareness. But now they have Beal who is a top 2 pick. And Beal is a great kid with a great smile and the right personality. They will clearly market him. And they have Nene who is clearly the real deal. And now Keveeen has shown up. They didn't have all that early last year.

But calling him a franchise player this year ? Can't see me saying that. Specially after getting Nene. This year, I'm just hoping Ves starts to be able to hit a mid range this year. But longer term. Yeah. I'm pro Vesely. I think he is a piece of the pie. But the clear franchise players right now are Wall and Nene with Kevin looking like he is in the mix and clearly they hope Beal will be one of those pieces.

Now if that is the best you got to try to hold over my head with the amount of crap overacting stuff and down right wrong projections I read tossed around here all the time, that's pretty weak.

[tontoz]

Show me where I said he would be the franchise player this year ?

I just did lol.

viewtopic.php?f=35&p=29763863

I said, This (Vesely) is our franchise player. This kid will be the heart of the team by next year.

[verbal8]

In Lewis' first 5 games with the Heat(and 93 minutes) he has more win-shares than he did in 28 games(700+ minutes) with the Wizards last season.

[tontoz]

I like the kids mocky.

Not sure what to make of that.

[hands11]

Not sure why is always amazes me how people take things so out of context but it does tend to be the same posters who do it.

I said, This (Vesely) is our franchise player. This kid will be the heart of the team by next year. So until next year happen, stuff it. Besides, it is my gut feeling and I have been very frustrated by what have have seen from Wall this year. What the hell do you care. Its a prediction about next year.

If you think I really care what you think, think again. For you to tell me my post are laughable is laughable considering the bunk you post. I have tried to play polite with your post but if you are going to came at me like this, I'm not going to bother. You want to drag the board down with this kind of bickering between posters, then lets do it.

viewtopic.php?f=35&p=29763863

Context is your friend. Go a few pages earlier and read and keep reading the rest of the thread the next 5-10 pages. There were plenty of Ves love and it wasn't me being the loudest voice.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:06 pm from the Vesely Thread
sfam wrote:I may the only one left who is excited to see what this kid can do. Most seem to have already declared him a bust. I don't get it. Give the kid a chance - he might be the next coming of, well, Vesely.

Hands11
Nope. I am jazzed to see the kid play. From what I saw in limited action in that one game, I think he has great court awareness and he knows how to cover his man defensively. And he showed good form on the one outside shot he took. A player with good to great basketball IQ at the 4 is something this team really needs.

I think he is really going to help this team. And not just with skills on the court. I think he brings something with his personality. I think the fans are going to love him. I predict he will take some of the star attention from Wall and I think that will be good for Wall.

Wall has had way to much of a spot light on him. Some diverted attention will be good for him so he can focus on his game and calm down some. And Wall to Vesely and McGee is going to be pretty cool to watch.

The fun basketball is still ahead of people. I know people are frustrated but I predict we will get to see something that we can get excited about before the season is over.

Vesely, Singleton and Mack are all key to the culture change and all seem like solid people and players with basketball IQ. Add Mason, Mo and Ronny and this team will show a lot more maturity. Plus they have Lewis who is mature.

I don't believe what we have seen the first two games is going to resemble what they will look after they have 10-20 games under their belts.

[tontoz]

Context from a post that was made 4 days earlier? LOL

[hands11]

Give it 10-20 games and I think we could see some major adjustment. We could see Dray or McGee or both coming off the bench.

Ves could start with Dray at center. Or with McGee or with Ronny.

Only time will tell.

But that is what is ahead for this team. The only known starter in my book for the year are Wall and Nick. Singleton could do it whenever but he can also come off the bench. Lots to figure out.

no D in Hibachi
Anyone have any updates on Jan? I'm looking for him to be the glue guy to bring together this mess.

---
hands11 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:13 am
Vesely Vesely Vesely

Where is that video ?

---
The kid hadn't even played his first game and the strike was just over. Hell yeah I was pumped to see him play. The team started 1-12. And this was right in the middle of Wall playing hero ball after and off season of playing those pick up games instead of working on actual skills.

--- so then I posted.

Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:48 pm
This is our franchise player. This kid will be the heart of the team by next year.

Very solid choice by Ted/EG and the right pick at #6.

Players like Kemba, Brooks and several other would have been solid picks but when you can get a 6-11 that has that heart, fire and skill, you go for that. They are the ones harder to find.

Another draft of solid personalities like we had last draft and this team will be in a lot better shape. If you can get them in trade, do that also.


--
5 games into the season with the team 0-5 and looking like ass.

So would I posts that again at that time with the players they had and how they were playing. Yeep.
At that point, I wasn't even sold that they would keep Wall since I saw no sign of improvement in his approach. Now that was maybe short sighted but that was my position and IIRC CCJ as well. Maybe some others. So no, I will not run from that post at that time in that context.

[tontoz]

You said Vesely would be our franchise player before he had even played his first regular season game.