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Predict the Eastern Conference Standings

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Post#376 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:48 pm by hands11

There is a mile between not sucking and not having a great year.

I said the later.

Again, I am not bashing Booker in the least. I have always been a huge Booker fan. I never agree with people in the trade trade using him in trades this year or last.

His rookie year he showed some promising talent but it wasn't a great year. That's all I said.

He wasn't a good outside shooter so he didn't shoot much from out there which I agree was smart. He did other things. Not many thought he would improve as much as he did from mid range his second year. Now he looks like he has fixed his shoot even more.

Well you can say a lot of the same types of things about Ves in year one. He also couldn't shoot from outside and didn't. He also showed he could do other things to contribute. Lets hope he shows similar progress on a mid range like Book did. That would be a welcome sight.

For now, I have no idea what they will get from Ves. Once everyone is healthy, he could get pushed behind all of them. Its up to him to prove he deserves the minutes. The bus is leaving the station. This isn't a tank team anymore. Players need to step up and earn minutes. No free passes bases on salary or draft position.
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Post#377 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:02 pm by montestewart

hands11 wrote:There is a mile between not sucking and not having a great year.

I said the later.

Again, I am not bashing Booker in the least. I have always been a huge Booker fan. I never agree with people in the trade trade using him in trades this year or last.

His rookie year he showed some promising talent but it wasn't a great year. That's all I said.

He wasn't a good outside shooter so he didn't shoot much from out there which I agree was smart. He did other things. Not many thought he would improve as much as he did from mid range his second year. Now he looks like he has fixed his shoot even more.

Well you can say a lot of the same types of things about Ves in year one. He also couldn't shoot from outside and didn't. He also showed he could do other things to contribute. Lets hope he shows similar progress on a mid range like Book did. That would be a welcome sight.

For now, I have no idea what they will get from Ves. Once everyone is healthy, he could get pushed behind all of them. Its up to him to prove he deserves the minutes. The bus is leaving the station. This isn't a tank team anymore. Players need to step up and earn minutes. No free passes bases on salary or draft position.


You brought him up when I mentioned that last year's picks haven't yet lived up to their draft positions. I guess you were trying to say that none of the recent draft picks were great. The exchange is below:

hands11 wrote:
montestewart wrote:hands, I was just talking about the strike-shortened season, but you're right that Leonard and Faried came into better situations (better systems and mix of players) than our draft picks. I'm not giving up on them after one year, but as a group, they have yet to show they were worth their picks.


Fair enough Mont

I was just reminding you that Booker didn't look great his first year. Nor did Kevin. And their first years included summer camp and a preseason. And they came a bad team like Ves and C Singleton did.


And again, I disagree. I didn't say GOAT, I didn't say HOF, I didn't 1st Team All NBA. For a 23rd pick in a draft that was not and still is not considered exceptionally deep, for an undersized PF, for a rookie, and especially when compared to Seraphin, Vesely, Singleton, and Mack, Booker had a great rookie season. His advanced metrics were above average, and if you watched his games, you could see it. Bill Russell didn't have much of an outside shot. Neither did Rodman, Wilt, or Shaq. Neither does Dwight Howard. What's that got to do with a strong inside player whose inside strengths are strength and playing inside? Quit searching for words to rationalize grouping his rookie season with Seraphin's rookie season, because those words will fail you. Seraphin had a horrible rookie season. Booker had a great rookie season. Not an average rookie season, not a so so rookie season, not an okay rookie season. A GRRRRRREAT!!! rookie season.


Image Yup. That's what I said. Great.
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Post#378 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:17 pm by closg00

Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
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Post#379 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:45 pm by hands11

Tyson Chandler Sprains Right
76ers To Sit Bynum Until He Has No Pain In Knee

This should help level the playing field.
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Post#380 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:54 am by ntsap

1. Miami Heat
2. New York Knicks
3. Boston Celtics
4. Brooklyn Nets
5. Philadelphia 76ers
6. Chicago Bulls
7. Indiana Pacers
8. Milwaukee Bucks
9. Atlanta Hawks
10. Toronto Raptors
11. Cleveland Cavaliers
12. Orlando Magic
13. Washington Wizards
14. Detroit Pistons
15. Charlotte Bobcats
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Post#381 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:13 am by closg00

:rockon:
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
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Post#382 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:09 pm by Knighthonor

looking back at this thread, many of you all have to admit, you also believe EG's decisions on roster was a playoff run team.

So honestly, many of your have no idea how to read talent.
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Post#383 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:13 am by montestewart

Knighthonor wrote:looking back at this thread, many of you all have to admit, you also believe EG's decisions on roster was a playoff run team.

So honestly, many of your have no idea how to read talent.

I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man
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Post#384 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:50 pm by The Consiglieri

The Consiglieri wrote:]
by The Consiglieri on Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:03 am
........... Tier 4: 10. Toronto 11. Washington 12. Cleveland 3 teams that have been struggling to rebuild for several years with middling success, all have squandered key high draft picks with suspect selections and/or trades, but all three teams are ahead of the game compared to Dumars' Pistons, and Jordan's Bobcats. I am wishy washy about where we slot in amongst the 3, I think we could finish anywhere between 9 and 12 next april, i definitely do not think we're playoff bound, i think our ceiling next year is 36-37 wins. Toronto could be a good site better, and I think Cleveland is one more year away from being a playoff contender. Tier 5: 13. Detroit 14. Orlando 15. Charlotte Orlando screwed the pooch last summer/winter when they didn't get rid of Howard at the first scent of trouble. They never should have kept him, should have moved him while he was worth something, now he has all the power, and they have none other than to make him miserable for 1 more year. They aren't going to get squat in a trade and will be worse than Charlotte in '13-'14. Detroits basically a bug slamming into a window, but were unbelievably lucky to land Drummond at their slot. That was the steal of the draft in terms of value versus slot. Charlotte is screwed till '14-'15 but they made the right pick......
I'm very comfortable with what I said back in July, and now having been dealt injuries to Wall that cost him at least 20 games, I downgraded my expectation to my original floor (32 wins at best) in an October post in this thread. I've missed many projections over the years, but like a lot of cynical fans here, I've consistently won big betting the low end of win totals with the Wizards/Boulez. Knights Honor, a few of the fans here are just wild optimists, and some of us probably appear geniuses now in our low expectations though admittedly there will be a year someday when we are surprised and totally off in our expectations, even a broken clock is right twice a day afterall, I just don't expect that to happen soon. Also like that I nailed Drummond :). Loved him and I was incensed that the Pistons got that freaking lucky. Got a guy with a 50/50 shot at being the 2nd best player out of this draft, maybe the best, and a legit franchise player in Drummond at that freaking slot? So insane. Why don't we ever get that lucky?

Never ceases to amaze me how all fan bases have that same dynamic, at the redskins forum we are all celebrating RG3, but while I and some others never got too low during the October slump, or too high with the wins, other sets either always stayed hypercynical, or compmletely ride the roller coaster of ups and downs that come with wins and losses and as a result, now have playoff stars in their eyes (pure fantasy, the Colts schedule was so friendly in the second half, that in an article i wrote for the sports jam three weeks ago, i argued the Colts would shock the world and finish with the 6 seed by seasons end, the redskins schedule was and is just too difficult, and the defense simply sucks far too much to allow it). I tend to be a realist who can run a little too cynical, but when we landed RG3, I became essentially a positivist. I don't care what the record is in '12, with RG3, the future is assured, so long as the offseason player hauls aren't complete disasters the next several years. Why? Simple, QB play now dominates and dictates who wins and who doesn't in the league. Rules changes the past 15 years or so have gifted teams with franchise QB's playoff runs like clockwork, and franchise QB's have owned the final four and the super bowl participants year in and year out (it's darn near impossible to think of any NFL team w/o a franchise QB that didn't immediately start making the playoffs consistently within 2 years of drafting him). So now, one of the most cynical redskin fans on the planet is one of the rare positivists.

Why not with the Boulez? Well, like the rest of the Chicken Little Cynical Contingent, when I see a team consistently unlucky with the lottery, dumber than hell with draft day decisions, and absolutely moronic with trades, I tend to have exceptionally low expectations until I consistently see proof that that view is logically unreasonable.

A franchise that dumped a first rounder for 4 games from Mark Price, that went old and small for young and big twice, in franchise busting, all world dumb arse trades (Webber for Richmond, Wallace for Strick), that even ditched a future elite big man for an AARP big man ready to pack it in (Wallace for Austin), that traded Rubio/Curry for Minnesota's trash, and traded a massive pile of cap room for two of the worst ten contracts in the NBA?!?!?! Why on earth would anyone be won over to pollyana-ish expectations with a team this moronic, and hopeless, where from the HC, to management, to possibly scouts, and definitely ownership is hapless and hopeless, and possibly even worse than the Pollin regime (at least the Pollin regime wasn't even really trying, the idiots running this titanic into an iceberg every offseason appear to actually be trying).

Nah, at the end of the day to have any decent expectations for this disaster, i need a second offseason where good decisions are made during the rebuild (so far we are 1 for 4 in rebuild offseasons, with '09 being camouflaged by a halfwitted idiot trade which sabotaged year 1, '11 botched by the Vesely pick, and '12 at least half-botched by an equally idiotic trade as '09), and the idiots who are sinking the good ship lollipop every year heaved overboard so we can build anew with a YOUNG, HUNGRY, INTELLIGENT, HIGHLY MOTIVATED front office. Until then I have no faith in this disaster period.
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Post#385 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:32 pm by The Consiglieri

There is one positive so far anyway, and that's that we've maxed out in losses with Wall gone so far. An absolute disaster this year would have been a 37-40 win season where we stopped improving, and weren't attractive enough to lure free agents, or bad enough to land a difference maker in the draft. This doesn't feel like a draft where we'll land a franchise player, but it does appear to be one where we can land another second tier complimentary "good" and possibly "very good" player, there appear to be at least possibly five or six of them. The unfortunate reality though is that will we be bad enough with Wall and Nene to still hold onto a top 3-4 pick pre-lottery? I have my doubts, I still feel that with Nene and Wall, this team is basically a .400 to .450 team, which has me thinking the team will probably win 28-32 games if they stay healthy in the final 65 games or so. Unfortunately that would slot us 5-8 pre-lottery.
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Post#386 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:08 pm by montestewart

Yes! A great season would dump EG, get a new and bold GM who makes deadline deals to shed albatross contracts and procure future assets, while the on court play (due to injuries to Wall and Nene) insures a horrible record and good draft position, with wall and Nene returning @ 100% and Beal finding his game very late in the season, thus making Wall, Nene, Beal, and a top pick an attractive core to a difference making (as opposed to marquee) FA or two. I believe the single largest barrier to DC being an attractive NBA FA destination is the sports media documentation of the bumbling Wizards ownership/management.
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Post#387 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:44 pm by The Consiglieri

Pretty much, but there's also the fact that the team itself has sucked since Kobe was 9 years old. There is no "Wizards/Bullets" history to NBA players. It's a non-entity as a franchise to players. Any new player in the league basically views New York, Brooklyn, Boston, Miami, Philadelphia, Dallas, Chicago, San Antonio, and Los Angeles as the only teams that either have history or winning to recommend them. OKC is the new kid on the block. Washington is a colossal joke. The horrible history, lack of any reputation other than one analgous to the Bucs in football, Pirates and Indians in baseball, and Cardinals and Browns in football insures it isn't attractive, add to that player logic, they know the team is lined up to pick top 5-10 every single year save for '05-'08 since Reagan was president ('97 exempted), and the team is an abject joke.

Your FA strategy won't work, in the end, we just need to get another pair of good youong players via the draft, or one in the draft and one traded for, then we should move to mediocre, and we can start trying to market ourselves as something other than a place to retire with your last NBA paycheck.
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Post#388 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:35 pm by noworriesinmd

I'm tired of people saying Washington is not a destination.
We have a freakin Black President. Most of the league is African American. What team could get highly professional and mature basketball player a pickup game with the President? Only the Wiz.
A "Lebron-type/level" player comes to mind. I'm not talking about an immature player.
This is the top city for singles. Our Strip Club scene is getting better (ask Blatche). There is a lot of wealth.
They can either have a pimp pad in VA (Old Towne or Ashburn) or DC (Condo behind Ritz in Gtown).
A lot of good players have DMV connections (Durant). This is an International city that can help your brand.
I'm tired of people saying DC is not a destination.
Brooklyn used to be a joke until they got a Russian Billionaire and Jay-Z.
This franchise is a joke because the owner and FO all allow it to be.
I'm tired of hearing Dc can't be a FA destination...you just need the right swag.
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Post#389 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:10 pm by payitforward

montestewart wrote:
Nivek wrote:I think Booker suffers from the "he looks funny for a basketball player" malady. He looks more like a defensive end than a PF. His blockiness belies how quick/fast he is, and how well he jumps. I agree that he's a better player than he gets credit for.

Balzac on Booker:
How strange! In every great man whose portrait I have remarked, the neck is short. Perhaps nature requires that in them the heart should be nearer to the brain!

Spoken by the title character in Louis Lambert

How'd I miss this post?

You go Monte -- I'm a huge Balzac fan. I can't believe another living person in America has read Louis Lambert!
People say I'm mellowing with age. Nah.

It is still not possible to formulate a counter-argument -- even if I say... Is so!
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Post#390 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:58 am by Nivek

Ahem, there are at least two other living persons in America who has read Louis Lambert.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
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Post#391 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:43 am by montestewart

I'm guessing, based on this coincidence, that a club (with dues and such) is in order.

The line pulled didn't stick out too much in the array of observations In Balzac's novel, but was quoted in Crome Yellow also. It does seem to apply to Booker and similar players.
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Post#392 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:11 am by closg00

Detroit started the year a close second to us for worst team, now they are starting to gel, they had six players in double figures tonight, they could catch that 8th spot.
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
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Post#393 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:07 am by hands11

Wallbeliever Thu Jul 26, 2012 wrote:1. Miami
2. Indiana
3. New Jersey
4. New York
5. Boston
6. Chicago
7. Washington
8. Atlanta

9. Milwaukee
10. Orlando
11. Toronto
12. Philadelphia
13. Detroit
14. Cleveland
15. Charlotte


With the trade deadline just past, this is a good time to take a snap shot.

WB did a nice job or predicting where the top teams would be.

Washington would very likely be right up there at 7th if it wasn't for the Wall injury and Nene not resting up to heal his foot over the summer.

Missed a little more with the bottom group. Orlando started pretty strong but most predicted they would be bottom 2 along with Charlotte.

Trade deadline.

MIL made a trade to help them with their playoff push. They may actually make it.
TOR got Gay so that changes their projection up.

I didn't expect D Rose would play this year. If he does, clearly Chicago will get a boast. They have done really well consider Rose has been out.
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Post#394 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:39 am by closg00

Look at the Pacers over the last 12 games or so, they have been quietly kicking-ass, their losses have been OT losses and a 1-point loss.
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/ ... ana-pacers
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Post#395 Re: Predict the Eastern Conference Standings
Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:54 am by hands11

So what do folks have a second half predictions now that injuries are more clear and teams have new players.


I didn't expect D Rose back this year. Still not clear that he will return. Man, his older brother really put him in a bad spot.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/ ... tor-return
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