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Wizards Sign Martell Webster

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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#161 » by dandridge 10 » Wed Dec 5, 2012 1:52 pm

I like Martell a lot. Glad he realizes that fans are going to continue to come out to see the other teams until the Wiz start winning. If they want to change the atmosphere at games, they need to do it by starting to win.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#162 » by dobrojim » Wed Dec 5, 2012 6:29 pm

don't disagree with any of the above except that MIA fans were NOT
a majority last night or any other MIA@Wiz game I've attended.
Far too many MIA fans for my taste to be sure and too much applause
and cheers for good Heat plays but there were more Wiz fans and they
made more noise.

Martell is right about winning generating enthusiasm though. We could
definitely use more. Of BOTH!
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#163 » by queridiculo » Wed Dec 5, 2012 6:39 pm

The Wiz fans got loud late in the game but given the way this team likes to string its fans along for losses I am not surprised that Wizards fans were mostly reserved in the beginning.

Cheers for Miami plays were out of control the half or so it seemed, but after that I don't recall hearing too much anymore.

Love the way Webster has played all year, about time he gets into the starting lineup.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#164 » by jivelikenice » Thu Dec 6, 2012 4:38 pm

I'm excited to see what Martell can do with starter minutes. He seems to have the physical tools and skillset to be a very solid wing scorer, but I can't peg what i think his upside is. He has a good shot, attacks the rim off the pump & go game, and his defense has been ok. Can he become a 13-15ppg scorer as a starting 3? With him, he looks like he's solid all around, but just has to do it consistently and put it all together at once.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#165 » by TGW » Thu Dec 6, 2012 4:52 pm

He's okay...again he's a semi-bright spot on a terrible team. We have to be careful about heaping praise because he is in a contract year.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#166 » by Dat2U » Thu Dec 6, 2012 5:46 pm

TGW wrote:He's okay...again he's a semi-bright spot on a terrible team. We have to be careful about heaping praise because he is in a contract year.


Exactly. He's okay. Good for him. I hope he can parlay this in to a long term deal, with someone else.

While we focus on finding the next Martell on the cheap in free agency.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#167 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Thu Dec 6, 2012 5:53 pm

Very happy he is on our team. Smart guy and he plays hard. He should start at the SF spot, he gives us the outside shooting and hustle we need.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#168 » by jivelikenice » Thu Dec 6, 2012 6:59 pm

When Wall returns, I'd like to see how a Wall/Beal/Webster/Singleton/Nene lineup performs (With KS in w/ Nene against teams with bigger front lines.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#169 » by payitforward » Fri Dec 7, 2012 12:39 am

Dat2U wrote:
TGW wrote:He's okay...again he's a semi-bright spot on a terrible team. We have to be careful about heaping praise because he is in a contract year.


Exactly. He's okay. Good for him. I hope he can parlay this in to a long term deal, with someone else.

While we focus on finding the next Martell on the cheap in free agency.

If Webster were to keep playing at his current level over the next few years, he'd be a great long-term sign at a reasonable price.

Why don't GMs sign guys like this w/ a year-two option? I never understand that. Not just Ernie, btw -- see it all the time when the potential little bump in the cost of the current year makes the option a bargain. It's critical to put yourself in a position to benefit from positive surprises.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#170 » by AFM » Fri Dec 7, 2012 2:50 am

Wouldnt mind giving him a longer contract. Dude has earned more than the 1M a year we're paying him now
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#171 » by tontoz » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:36 pm

This team needs scoring from the wing badly. Resigning Webster might not be a bad idea given that he is unlikely to command a big deal even with a good year. Plus this team will have no cap space to sign a high profile 3.

They won't have anything but the MLE to sign guys with in the summer.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#172 » by nate33 » Sat Dec 8, 2012 5:19 pm

I'd like to see us treat Webster like how OKC treated Collison and Sefalosha. Both guys are quality role players who got locked into long term deals at good prices.

If we didn't make the stupid Okariza acquisition, we could front load Webster's contract so that he's dirt cheap in every successive year. It would be nice to sign him to a 4 year, $13M contract where we pay him $9M up front and a $1.3M a year thereafter. Chalk that up to another opportunity cost of the Okariza acquisition.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#173 » by hands11 » Sat Dec 8, 2012 6:13 pm

Webster was a huge let down in that game against ATL.

Seemed like everything was set up for him to really have and impact. He has been a solid leader off the bench and in the locker room throughout the tough start. This season, he has played a nice balanced game of hitting open shots and taking it to the basket. Trevor A was hurt. He got the start. This was his chance to step it up and be a leader. What did he do ? dud. nothing. he didn't even take a shoot in 10 minutes to start the game. Zero assist. Zero rebounds. Nothing. When you looked at his line after 10 mins the only number in the line was the 10. Everything else had a zero next to it. Not even a turnover or a foul.

Basically he totally chocked when asked to play a leader role as the primary scorer. I'm not going to draw a conclusion about the guy based on this one game but that is an important data point to remember.

Now personally, I think Randy put him in a bad situation as I think he has done to players all year. Putting him out there with Price, Beal, Singleton and Okafor was pretty much asking him to be the #1 scorer because clearly non of those other players are ready to be that. Which also shows how bad that line up is even with Trevor A in it. Singleton and Okafor were doing the best they could to pull their weight but Webster was a no show and that just can't happen. Specially not for 10 straight minutes. And who does Randy let this happen with out calling a play for him or changing the line up when he sees it wasn't working ?

This is a team of mostly compliment player for Wall and Nene that was designed for defense and running. There are a handful of legit scoring threats who are starter ready mentally. You HAVE TO have at least one of them in the starting line up and Randy isn't doing that.

You have Nene, Kevin, Crawford who fill that bill and then you have a couple player who may not be serious scoring threats but who are mentally ready to play as starters. Those players are Trevor A, Singleton and Livingston which Price on some nights. I would even add Baron to that group. So far, Webster has not proven he is fits in the starter group. He played with a back up mentality.

So if Nene isn't going to start because he isn't ready or randy can't figure out how to start him and pull him after 5 minutes ( which is easily doable ) then he has to start Crawford and Kevin. He just has to. No way his line up of back ups is going to work. There are plenty of ways to do this but he needs to pick one of them.

Price - short leash if he isn't getting it done.
Crawford - he has to play 30 plus minutes and has to start.
Singleton - he has been a reliable starter but needs the right players around him.
Kevin - he is there most reliable post scorer and can really catch fire. 35 minutes a game.
Okafor - I hate him starting. Nene should really be starting and if not him, try Baron.

One of Kevin or Nene has to start and Crawford has to start.

If not the above, then you start Crawford at PG with Webster at SG. Crawford was the PG when they went on that run. Match ups matter. Price is not enough of a driving treat to hold off a pressing active defense like ATL had. Crawford, Singleton, and Kevin is enough of a scoring bunch such that Price and Okafor can play their roles. Crawford, Webster, Singleton and Kevin would be even better. Webster is good in a compliment role and with that line up he would be that. But putting him out there with Price, Beal, Singleton and Okafor...that looks like failure waiting to happen and it did. You are asking him to be something he hasn't been and you didn't need to do that. The team did come back later in the game when Randy lined them up better but they were burned out after digging out of a whole the entire game. Beal is a fine player in the middle innings when he can play mentally lose. Asking him to start or close a game is stupid at this point of his career. It is putting him in a position to do more then he is ready to do and it isn't needed.

Let Beal do it thing between the 2nd to 6 min mark in the 4th. He showed he can do that yesterday. Let the kid learn off the bench. He shouldn't be starting.

Randy needs to get some consistent line ups out there and figure out which horses he is going to ride. Crawford and Kevin need to be better 35 minutes a night. Probably Singleton as well. If he does that, at least there will be some continuity out there. Right now, Randy changes line ups way to much and he puts players in positions to fail because they are not ready to be what he is asking them to be.

Yes, it is a challenging roster without Nene ready to start, with no Trevor A and no Wall. But Randy is making the least of it with what he is doing with the starters. They do have the highest scoring bench and they are in most games. The pieces are there to do better then he is.

Its almost like Randy is coaching them to tank. Getting Beal starter minutes seems more important then trying to win games. That is a tank move. Starting Okafor and trying to get him to produce to raise his value for a trade is more important then using him in a more limited roll where he is more solid. Tank move. Close games that you lose. Pure tank. But win one against the last years champs to keep moral high so you can lose some more.

Either Randy really sucks as a coach or he is following a tank plan because they have already thrown in the towel on this season because of the Wall and Nene injuries. But even if that is true, why not start Kevin S ? He is clearly a piece to develop. Its doesn't make sense and because it doesn't, I say it is just bad coaching.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#174 » by AFM » Sat Dec 8, 2012 8:49 pm

We have to start Okafor because we are paying him out the ass. It's like buying a Maserati and a Mini Cooper and realizing the Maserati is a piece of shiet but you drive it anyway to make yourself feel better. Cognitive dissonance.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#175 » by hands11 » Sat Dec 8, 2012 10:12 pm

Well then start this.

Price - short leash if he isn't getting it done.
Crawford - he has to play 30 plus minutes and has to start.
Singleton - he has been a reliable starter but needs the right players around him.
Kevin - he is there most reliable post scorer and can really catch fire. 35 minutes a game.
Okafor

or even better. Do this already. Nene doesn't have to play any more minutes then he already is.

Price
Crawford
Singleton
Nene - Pull him after 5 minutes. Then 5 to close the half. 5 to start the 3rd and 5 to close the game.
Okafor

That is a legit starting line up that should be able to compete to start the game so they won't be fighting out of a hole every game.

Play Kevin the other 28 minutes at PF with another 5-10 at center. He would step right in for Nene.
Beal gets back up minutes at SG. He would be much better off the bench after Craw sets the table.
Crawford get max minutes between SG and PG
Webster fills in at SG and SF. He is better with better players around him. Not a lead dog.

Thats your core 8 players. Lets just see it for one game. Okafor should look better with Nene or Kevin always out there at PF. If not, rolling in Barron as needed.

Randy has been blowing the line ups and rotations all year. If he would just start Nene, maybe that would helps him figure the rest out. But he is stubbornly starting Beal as well. Randy has been a huge disappointment as a game time coach so far.

Randy keep telling the players to just play their game but he keep putting out line ups that demand that they play much more then their game. I have yet to see him line up the players in a way they each can play their game in a way that the pieces compliment each other. Sure, he stumbles into it at some point in the game, but never to start the game. He is a stubborn fool so far.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#176 » by AFM » Sat Dec 8, 2012 10:21 pm

The worst thing Randy did was keep Beal on the bench after he went off in the 3rd last night.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#177 » by hands11 » Sat Dec 8, 2012 10:29 pm

AFM wrote:The worst thing Randy did was keep Beal on the bench after he went off in the 3rd last night.


I hardly count that as the worst he has done by a mile. Actually, for right now, I prefer he play him like that. He should be getting all his minutes between the 5 minute mark in the first and the 6 minute mark in the 4th to build up his game and confidence. You want to see what he does in down the stretch minutes, let him prove it going into the half first at some point.

This kid is 19 years old. They have thrown way to much on him way to early. Very poorly handled in my book. Same thing they did to Wall.

The minutes he got in the Miami game where perfect. Only he shouldn't have started. It was foul trouble that got him out of the game at the start of the first when it should be a coaching decision.

He shouldn't be starting. And he shouldn't be finishing games. Not yet.

Him blowing up in the 3rd is perfect. Let him do that for a while. Doesn't mean he should be closing games.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#178 » by TheBigThree » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:01 am

Just a short bump to say how much I like this guy.

Yeah, he's been a bit of a disappointment offensively, but I think he's a tremendous asset to the locker room.

Listening to his post-game interviews I just can't believe he never went to college. He's an extremely intelligent dude and I'd be shocked if he doesn't transition right into coaching whenever his playing career is done.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#179 » by hands11 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:27 pm

So what is it going to take to resign Martell

He can clearly play when he is healthy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tma02.html

In a dream world, we could get him for 2-3 years at 4M

But his is 26, these next 3 years are his best chance to get paid. Not that 4M a year isn't nice money.

Would be really nice to keep him around another year. Key would be to not overpay. I love having him on the team and he has produced nicely. Still looking for another gear from him. It might be something he doesn't have which is to create his own shot. He isn't a Batum starter type. But he is a solid guy to have on your team.
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Re: Wizards Sign Martell Webster 

Post#180 » by nate33 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:19 pm

I definitely want to keep him. I figure he is worth roughly what Brandon Rush was worth coming off his last season. Rush's numbers were a bit better, but his final season production was way above his baseline for his career. Rush is also a bit smaller.

Rush got a 2-year deal worth $4M a year, with the second year a player option.

One problem is that he isn't a RFA. We have no right to match. Indeed, we don't even have Bird Rights so we CAN'T match any offer that exceeds the MLE (unless we dump Okafor or Ariza). With so little leverage, there is a danger that Ernie will negotiate against himself and overpay. (Not a criticism. Ernie is in a bad spot. He can't wait to see what the market will offer, he has to guess.)

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