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The 2012 Rookie Class

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Knighthonor
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#121 » by Knighthonor » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:41 am

is Beal a better pick than Harrison Barnes?
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#122 » by Illuminaire » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:32 am

Is it possible to know the answer to that question 8-9 games into each player's career?
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#123 » by The Consiglieri » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:44 am

Nivek wrote:NBA talent evaluation: Where the Big East Player of the Year becomes a 2nd round "sleeper" possibility for Rookie of the Year.


Everybody here seemed to nail that pick. I didn't know enough about him to make an accurate judgment, just realized on you guys, and you totally nailed it collectively and individually on many levels. I'm horrified at how horse crap NBA scouting is. It's like the NFL draft in the sixties, they really seem totally clueless. To hear that when it came to euro players, they simply assumed they sucked, then when Vlade, Drazen and friends blew up, they couldnt draft enough of them etc? Freaking morons. I am more than willing to admit my issues, and one of them is apparently giving too much respect to management. At times I distrust CCJ even with his track record, or you with your system, somewhat buying into the idea that they are doing the metrics, and in the business for a reason, and there's a reason we aren't, but at this point, I'm viewing most 50+ GM's as the equivalent of 1900-1970's style legacy IVY kids like W. Just idiots that managed to get in via some connection, and stay in through an old boys network, like how Loria was allowed to drop a nuke on the expos, and then basically piss all over Miami and treat their populace (admittedly not my favorite), as his own personal septic tank.

I gave EG the benefit of the doubt on Vesely even though i wanted a trade up for Valunciunas because I hated the Kansas twins, didnt think we'd go after Kawai, and figured we could get Faried, or somebody else in the teens. And now here we sit, with Vesely likely to go down as one of the worst picks of the 2011-2020 era when we're only 1.5 years into that era. Hugely embarrasing.

Even worse to see the satoranksy pick when there were at least 1-2 likely starters with potential stud about them available, and another 5-6 great sleepers available. Satoransky isn't the clusterflutch that Vesely appears to be, he could end up being valuable, but my god? What the hell is wrong with our F.O., and with the NBA in general? Its ridiculous. The NFL and MLB and even NHL are vastly more difficult to scout and evaluate, and yet they all do a better job than the NBA. It's pathetic.

Oh and btw, feeling very confident in my, "#$&&$T#@! Freaking Detroit got the steal of the draft! Thoughts from last summer. I cannot believe he fell into their freaking laps at that point in the draft. When a guy has a 50/50 chance at being a Dwight Howard type? It's inexcusable to allow him to nearly fall out of the top 10 entirely.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#124 » by The Consiglieri » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:51 am

Knighthonor wrote:is Beal a better pick than Harrison Barnes?



And it's also worth mentioning this:

Both Beal and Wall, the only picks that weren't disastrously idiotic in the first four years of the shouldabeenarebuildsince'09, got their start with inept, pathetic, disastrously bad supporting casts.

Wall was surrounded by me first, no BBIQ morons with little talent.

Beal is surrounded by a bunch of backups, and d leaguers, and total hacks at PG.

Both scenario's are highly likely to impact your productivity and effectiveness.

I am not even slightly worried about the kid. If he stinks with a healthy wizards team 150 games into his career, then I'll worry.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#125 » by closg00 » Thu May 2, 2013 3:17 am

closg00 wrote:
closg00 wrote:
dangermouse wrote:Its Davis' to lose really when you consider his time with Team USA etc. If Beal gets minutes I think he will be in that top 3 range for sure.


I would be surprised if Davis were to win ROY. Given the position that he plays and his current body-weight that he has, it could take him a couple of years to body-up NBA guys. Davis looks skinnier than Greg Monroe.

I would put Lillard as front-runner to win Roy, he has the easiest path to win if they give him the keys.


Lillard wins unanimously, it was an easy early call.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#126 » by montestewart » Thu May 2, 2013 4:20 am

^
Yep, and CCJ and a number of others called him right as a good pick. I'm quite happy with Beal though, not to hard to make a case as 3rd or 4th best rookie with plenty of room to grow. After Davis, Lillard, Beal, and Drummond, who had the 5th best rookie year? Barnes was unspectacular, but fairly solid for a rookie.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#127 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu May 2, 2013 2:09 pm

TNT shows this tweet:

"Bradley Beal ‏@RealDealBeal23 20h
Congrats on ROY @Dame_Lillard ! Well deserved, keep grindin' !!"

https://twitter.com/RealDealBeal23/stat ... 5155395587

Chuck - “I love that Bradley Beal.”
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#128 » by Zonkerbl » Thu May 2, 2013 2:38 pm

Wait... wasn't Lillard a "stretch" where he was picked?
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#129 » by FAH1223 » Thu May 2, 2013 2:42 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Wait... wasn't Lillard a "stretch" where he was picked?


It's cause he went to a small school and there was suspicions about the level of competition

But the kid is a baller, Portland definitely needed him and the Gerald Wallace trade was really good for them.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#130 » by Dat2U » Thu May 2, 2013 8:22 pm

Lillard won by default because of injuries but Andre Drummond & Anthony Davis are much better players.

Lillard winning is like Damon Stoudemire winning the year Garnett, Wallace, Stackhouse & McDyess came out.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#131 » by nate33 » Thu May 2, 2013 9:14 pm

Dat2U wrote:Lillard won by default because of injuries but Andre Drummond & Anthony Davis are much better players.

Lillard winning is like Damon Stoudemire winning the year Garnett, Wallace, Stackhouse & McDyess came out.

That's my take too. Lillard is no superstar. This isn't Kyrie Irving having a ROY performance. Lillard is merely a pretty solid, mature player who was thrust into a heavy-minute, heavy-usage role on a relatively bad team. He did an admirable job, but I don't think it's the start of a really impressive career. I think he's basically another Jameer Nelson type of player - a solid starter, but lacking in true upside.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#132 » by verbal8 » Fri May 3, 2013 1:01 pm

I think Steve Francis is another good comparison(guard won ROY at 22), although Francis may have had more potential to work with. Incidentally Okafor also won the ROY at age 22.

nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Lillard won by default because of injuries but Andre Drummond & Anthony Davis are much better players.

Lillard winning is like Damon Stoudemire winning the year Garnett, Wallace, Stackhouse & McDyess came out.

That's my take too. Lillard is no superstar. This isn't Kyrie Irving having a ROY performance. Lillard is merely a pretty solid, mature player who was thrust into a heavy-minute, heavy-usage role on a relatively bad team. He did an admirable job, but I don't think it's the start of a really impressive career. I think he's basically another Jameer Nelson type of player - a solid starter, but lacking in true upside.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#133 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat May 4, 2013 11:30 pm

Dat2U wrote:Lillard won by default because of injuries but Andre Drummond & Anthony Davis are much better players.

Lillard winning is like Damon Stoudemire winning the year Garnett, Wallace, Stackhouse & McDyess came out.


Not only are they much better, they are both three years younger than Lillard. A lot of rookies have talent but just didn't get the same favorable playing situation as Lillard.

IMO John Henson is better than Lillard, but he went to the wrong team with a terrible logjam at C.

Terrence Jones would produce huge numbers at SF for a team like the Wizards. I think I'd choose him over Lillard.

Jonas Valanciunas is a couple years younger, and possibly a better prospect than Lillard.

Two rookies who didn't play much but who are very solid are Arnett Moutrie and Quincy Acy. I wouldn't choose them over Lillard, but I bet either could start and be solid.

Patrick Beverly is 24 but technically is a rookie. He is tough and I think every bit as good a PG as Lillard.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#134 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat May 4, 2013 11:31 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Lillard won by default because of injuries but Andre Drummond & Anthony Davis are much better players.

Lillard winning is like Damon Stoudemire winning the year Garnett, Wallace, Stackhouse & McDyess came out.

That's my take too. Lillard is no superstar. This isn't Kyrie Irving having a ROY performance. Lillard is merely a pretty solid, mature player who was thrust into a heavy-minute, heavy-usage role on a relatively bad team. He did an admirable job, but I don't think it's the start of a really impressive career. I think he's basically another Jameer Nelson type of player - a solid starter, but lacking in true upside.


I think he's a more explosive player than Jameer Nelson, but I agree with your main premise.

Lillard can prove you wrong, however, by getting physically stronger, nate.
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Re: The 2012 Rookie Class 

Post#135 » by Higga » Mon May 6, 2013 6:41 pm

Beal will be the better player in the long run, and will be the second best player of the entire 2012 class IMO.

Grats to Lilly though I guess.
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