Wall out 8 weeks with injury to patella

[DCZards]

Perhaps. Or perhaps his knee explodes and he never gets a jump shot. He's had two seasons, not one to show hate he is made of. Last season he made 3 threes the entire season.

ccj, you always seem to want to point to Wall's shortcomings, especially his terrible 3 pt shooting. But what about the impressive assist numbers he's put up despite playing wiht a bunch of mediocre shooters? What about the fact that he's a big, fast and strong guard who can get to the rim and the free throw line? What about the fact that he has the potential to be one of the best shotblocking/rebounding PGs of his generation? What about his superior athleticism and his potential to be an outstanding defender?

I realize Wall's shooting is still a major issue, but I'm not willing to throw in the towel on that aspect of his game.

[Nivek]

How many other young PGs have had a knee concern this early in their career?

I'd be willing to trade Wall for the right package of picks and players.

As for the question, Magic Johnson immediately springs to mind. He missed 45 games his 2nd season with a knee injury.

Not a knee and not a PG, but Michael Jordan missed 64 games his 2nd season with a broken foot.

Of course, neither of those guys had the handicap of being treated by the Wizards medical staff.

[Dat2U]

CCJ, I remain perplexed by your definition of blue-chip talent. Carter scores inefficiently. For comparison sake, Wall was better from 2-pt range, 3-pt range, and shot about the same from the FT line (while getting there twice as often). Yeah, he does some things very well. He also does some things quite poorly... I don't see "transcendental" in his game at all.

The grass ain't always greener, bro. Sometimes it's just more grass.

It's not Wall for Carter-Williams, though I believe a guy like Carter-Williams might come in the league a better floor general than Wall. The guy seems like he can really get after it on the defensive end, too. I never would trade Wall for him or McCollum one-for-one, even though I can see either guy being more of a winner than John.

I have not been a huge Wall fan ever. He is extremely overrated. When I suggested trading Wall for the rights to Kyrie Irving and a later pick, people thought I was crazy. I respect Dat's knowledge of the draft more than anyone else. He couldn't get past Wall's athletic gifts. I say the other guy is a real good shooter, a natural leader, and a very sharp young man. Some people are a quick study and he is one. John is not. (OTOH Irving's durability and his turnovers are both cause for concern.) I look at players' leadership and whether they can make others better. I have to watch MCW more but i"m sold on McCollum.

I have also seen enough of John Wall to know he's really, really fast in transition. He's also not a great PG, YET. His form on the jumper looks improved but I'm alarmed about his knee injury. How many other young PGs have had a knee concern this early in their career? I would get him back, let him put up some numbers and be very willing to sell on John Wall while I could.

Maybe I am wrong this time, but I haven't been about Gil or Nene. Nothing about John Wall's past leads me to believe he is going to live up to the hype.

I think you overrate certain skills. I remember Gil had struggled after the first game of his 2nd year with us and many people including yourself were calling to trade Gil because Steve Blake was a "true" PG and had played well in the season opener.

You've also made mention of how A.J. Price was a better shooter than Wall and somehow the offense could run more efficiently than Wall because of that aspect. I just think that just seriously undervalues all the positive traits that a unique talent like Wall brings.

I also don't know how we can truly question Wall's PG skills like your so willing to do. What exactly has he had to work with in DC? Who's the best player he's played with? Nene for like 40 minutes total? I think it's asking too much to expect Wall to look like a star and raise the level of teammates considering the situation Ernie has placed him into.

IMO, you've just never liked Wall. You'll suggest dumping him at any and every opportunity no matter what and you'll suggest any deal that pimps your ability to scout (like suggesting trades for a pick to draft McCollum).

if McCollum is so good, why not Wall & McCollum? I have no problem saying I like McCollum too but I think he's much less of a PG than Wall is and these other names like Carter-Williams, your mentioning as possible replacements is plain laughable.

[Dat2U]

As great as a shot maker as Kyrie Irving has proven to be, he sure doesn't help Cleveland win. Varejao seems to be the real difference maker in that aspect.

Secondly, Kyrie has been mentioned in more than one article/publication as being one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league. Not sure why that's the case but he'll need to address that issue to really become a difference maker.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah, Dat, I was very wrong to want Blake over Gil. That was about as bad as an EG trade or worse. I am guilty as charged on that. I even thought before the draft Vasquez would be better than Wall, and Evan Turner, too. I hope I learned something about underestimated physical tools. I value them more now.

John Wall seemed to me to make the Wizards worse more times than not. I've never really been on board with him but he has had a few tremendous games.

Nivek, Magic and Michael exploded on the NBA scene their rookie seasons. I recall the old joke that the only guy who could hold MJ under 20 points per game was Dean Smith. MJ was scoring 30 a night almost instantly. Magic won the NBA championship playing ever thing from PG to C in the Finals as a rookie. John Wall is someone I HOPE can make a leap like Russell Westbrook. He doesn't have Derrick Rose in him. John Wall could very well have Gary Payton meets Westbrook in him, but the injury has me concerned.

I am probably just overreacting to Gilbert and Nene's injuries. But note my MAJOR concern is John Wall is coming up on a contract year. I really don't see max contract player in him. This was supposed to be the year to evaluate Wall moving forward.

Nivek, thanks for posting about Magic. I recalled MJ's foot. Neither worry me like the knee. This is very similar to Danny Granger's injury. Jason Kidd and Zach Randolph have come back from microfracture surgery on their knees, but I don't want to see Wall have to do that and then come up for a contract.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I remain perplexed by your definition of blue-chip talent. Carter scores inefficiently. For comparison sake, Wall was better from 2-pt range, 3-pt range, and shot about the same from the FT line (while getting there twice as often). Yeah, he does some things very well. He also does some things quite poorly... I don't see "transcendental" in his game at all.

The grass ain't always greener, bro. Sometimes it's just more grass.

It's not Wall for Carter-Williams, though I believe a guy like Carter-Williams might come in the league a better floor general than Wall. The guy seems like he can really get after it on the defensive end, too. I never would trade Wall for him or McCollum one-for-one, even though I can see either guy being more of a winner than John.

I have not been a huge Wall fan ever. He is extremely overrated. When I suggested trading Wall for the rights to Kyrie Irving and a later pick, people thought I was crazy. I respect Dat's knowledge of the draft more than anyone else. He couldn't get past Wall's athletic gifts. I say the other guy is a real good shooter, a natural leader, and a very sharp young man. Some people are a quick study and he is one. John is not. (OTOH Irving's durability and his turnovers are both cause for concern.) I look at players' leadership and whether they can make others better. I have to watch MCW more but i"m sold on McCollum.

I have also seen enough of John Wall to know he's really, really fast in transition. He's also not a great PG, YET. His form on the jumper looks improved but I'm alarmed about his knee injury. How many other young PGs have had a knee concern this early in their career? I would get him back, let him put up some numbers and be very willing to sell on John Wall while I could.

Maybe I am wrong this time, but I haven't been about Gil or Nene. Nothing about John Wall's past leads me to believe he is going to live up to the hype.

I think you overrate certain skills. I remember Gil had struggled after the first game of his 2nd year with us and many people including yourself were calling to trade Gil because Steve Blake was a "true" PG and had played well in the season opener.

You've also made mention of how A.J. Price was a better shooter than Wall and somehow the offense could run more efficiently than Wall because of that aspect. I just think that just seriously undervalues all the positive traits that a unique talent like Wall brings.

I also don't know how we can truly question Wall's PG skills like your so willing to do. What exactly has he had to work with in DC? Who's the best player he's played with? Nene for like 40 minutes total? I think it's asking too much to expect Wall to look like a star and raise the level of teammates considering the situation Ernie has placed him into.

IMO, you've just never liked Wall. You'll suggest dumping him at any and every opportunity no matter what and you'll suggest any deal that pimps your ability to scout (like suggesting trades for a pick to draft McCollum).

if McCollum is so good, why not Wall & McCollum? I have no problem saying I like McCollum too but I think he's much less of a PG than Wall is and these other names like Carter-Williams, your mentioning as possible replacements is plain laughable.

I just go by the numbers some time. This season Carter-Williams is putting up some seriously good numbers. Guys like Ken Pomeroy rank teams and services scout players using certain numbers, among other evaluative tools. I tend to recognize patterns. Sometimes I really miss. Quincy Douby comes to mind. I thought he'd be pretty good. He has scored 20-something a game, only in Turkey not the NBA. But for the most part I've had pretty good success.

Wall with McCollum could be really good.

There are a lot of guys putting up sick numbers in the NCAAs. Jeff Withey had a triple double with blocks. Erick Green is blasting good teams with 25 PPG. James Kinney dropped 30 on Kansas and is right among the nation's leaders in scoring, along with McCollum, Green, and Isaiah Canaan. A few of those guys have teams go a long way in the NCAAs. They are the kind of players like Eric Maynor. I felt very strongly he and Larry Sanders would be good at the next level and they both are.

Wall is a good player but I think he's not that special overall. I have been saying this two years now and no one can definitely disprove me on that. Maybe he will do like Big Balls Crawford and get better and better.

[hands11]

Yeah, Dat, I was very wrong to want Blake over Gil. That was about as bad as an EG trade or worse. I am guilty as charged on that. I even thought before the draft Vasquez would be better than Wall, and Evan Turner, too. I hope I learned something about underestimated physical tools. I value them more now.

John Wall seemed to me to make the Wizards worse more times than not. I've never really been on board with him but he has had a few tremendous games.

Nivek, Magic and Michael exploded on the NBA scene their rookie seasons. I recall the old joke that the only guy who could hold MJ under 20 points per game was Dean Smith. MJ was scoring 30 a night almost instantly. Magic won the NBA championship playing ever thing from PG to C in the Finals as a rookie. John Wall is someone I HOPE can make a leap like Russell Westbrook. He doesn't have Derrick Rose in him. John Wall could very well have Gary Payton meets Westbrook in him, but the injury has me concerned.

I am probably just overreacting to Gilbert and Nene's injuries. But note my MAJOR concern is John Wall is coming up on a contract year. I really don't see max contract player in him. This was supposed to be the year to evaluate Wall moving forward.

Nivek, thanks for posting about Magic. I recalled MJ's foot. Neither worry me like the knee. This is very similar to Danny Granger's injury. Jason Kidd and Zach Randolph have come back from microfracture surgery on their knees, but I don't want to see Wall have to do that and then come up for a contract.

Maybe I remember wrong but I thought his first year he was just a PG. The year he did what you are talking about was later in his career.


Wall isnt due for a new contract until 2015

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Maybe I remember wrong but I thought his first year he was just a PG. The year he did what you are talking about was later in his career.


Wall isnt due for a new contract until 2015

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_John ... 80.9380.29

Johnson was drafted first overall in 1979 by the Los Angeles Lakers. Johnson said that what was "most amazing" about joining the Lakers was the chance to play alongside Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,[19] the team's 7 ft 2 in (2.18 m) center who became the leading scorer in NBA history.[20] Despite Abdul-Jabbar's dominance, he had failed to win a championship with the Lakers, and Johnson was expected to help them achieve that goal.[21] Johnson averaged 18.0 points, 7.7 rebounds, and 7.3 assists per game for the season, was selected to the NBA All-Rookie Team, and was named an NBA All-Star Game starter.[22]

The Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals,[23] in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series,[24] sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6.[21] Paul Westhead decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game.[21] Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award,[21] and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history.[5][25][26] He also became one of four players to win NCAA and NBA championships in consecutive years.[27]

IIRC, for the most part Norm Nixon was the PG for the Lakers Magic's rookie season, although he and Magic shared playmaking duties. Magic was more of point forward at first. He only played C the time Kareem got injured, but what I remember is he played GREAT at C as a rookie in the NBA Finals.

[Upper Decker]

Anyone know what the QO is for wall next year?

[B-easy]

John Wall is someone I HOPE can make a leap like Russell Westbrook. He doesn't have Derrick Rose in him. .

uhh...

Westbrook is as good as Rose. Maybe better.

[hands11]

Maybe I remember wrong but I thought his first year he was just a PG. The year he did what you are talking about was later in his career.


Wall isnt due for a new contract until 2015

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_John ... 80.9380.29

Johnson was drafted first overall in 1979 by the Los Angeles Lakers. Johnson said that what was "most amazing" about joining the Lakers was the chance to play alongside Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,[19] the team's 7 ft 2 in (2.18 m) center who became the leading scorer in NBA history.[20] Despite Abdul-Jabbar's dominance, he had failed to win a championship with the Lakers, and Johnson was expected to help them achieve that goal.[21] Johnson averaged 18.0 points, 7.7 rebounds, and 7.3 assists per game for the season, was selected to the NBA All-Rookie Team, and was named an NBA All-Star Game starter.[22]

The Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals,[23] in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series,[24] sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6.[21] Paul Westhead decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game.[21] Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award,[21] and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history.[5][25][26] He also became one of four players to win NCAA and NBA championships in consecutive years.[27]

IIRC, for the most part Norm Nixon was the PG for the Lakers Magic's rookie season, although he and Magic shared playmaking duties. Magic was more of point forward at first. He only played C the time Kareem got injured, but what I remember is he played GREAT at C as a rookie in the NBA Finals.

Thanks

What I was remembering was post Abdul. There were a few seasons there where the Lakers were getting really thin and Magic played center and or in the post, a lot more often then just one game.

[hands11]

Anyone know what the QO is for wall next year?

Zero. He is already signed. I just posted that.

The QO is for the 2014/2015 season so he has all of next year before they have to deal with that.

[dobrojim]

As great as a shot maker as Kyrie Irving has proven to be, he sure doesn't help Cleveland win. Varejao seems to be the real difference maker in that aspect.

Secondly, Kyrie has been mentioned in more than one article/publication as being one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league. Not sure why that's the case but he'll need to address that issue to really become a difference maker.

Unless CLE is playing the incredibly over-rated (in pre-season) Lakers.
Then he helps CLE win more than Kobe, Mr 30K, helps LA at least so
far as actually getting wins. Too funny.

[FAH1223]

Yeah, Dat, I was very wrong to want Blake over Gil. That was about as bad as an EG trade or worse. I am guilty as charged on that. I even thought before the draft Vasquez would be better than Wall, and Evan Turner, too. I hope I learned something about underestimated physical tools. I value them more now.

John Wall seemed to me to make the Wizards worse more times than not. I've never really been on board with him but he has had a few tremendous games.

Nivek, Magic and Michael exploded on the NBA scene their rookie seasons. I recall the old joke that the only guy who could hold MJ under 20 points per game was Dean Smith. MJ was scoring 30 a night almost instantly. Magic won the NBA championship playing ever thing from PG to C in the Finals as a rookie. John Wall is someone I HOPE can make a leap like Russell Westbrook. He doesn't have Derrick Rose in him. John Wall could very well have Gary Payton meets Westbrook in him, but the injury has me concerned.

I am probably just overreacting to Gilbert and Nene's injuries. But note my MAJOR concern is John Wall is coming up on a contract year. I really don't see max contract player in him. This was supposed to be the year to evaluate Wall moving forward.

Nivek, thanks for posting about Magic. I recalled MJ's foot. Neither worry me like the knee. This is very similar to Danny Granger's injury. Jason Kidd and Zach Randolph have come back from microfracture surgery on their knees, but I don't want to see Wall have to do that and then come up for a contract.

Maybe I remember wrong but I thought his first year he was just a PG. The year he did what you are talking about was later in his career.


Wall isnt due for a new contract until 2015

It was the 1980 NBA Finals where Magic had to play multiple positions and yes, he was a rookie.

[dobrojim]

IIRC, Magic played C only in the deciding game (Kareem was hurt). He had a monster game, 38 points or
something like that. I thought the Laker team with Nixon and Wilkes that was high pressure
high pace was better than some of the later "showtime" teams even though those teams
had Worthy. Kareem was younger and more dominant.

[Nivek]

Anyone know what the QO is for wall next year?

It's $9.7 million.

The real number matters is the cap hold, and the hold on Wall will be the 0-6 years of experience maximum salary. Under the current salary cap, that's about $13.6 million.

[montestewart]

Anyone know what the QO is for wall next year?

It's $9.7 million.

The real number matters is the cap hold, and the hold on Wall will be the 0-6 years of experience maximum salary. Under the current salary cap, that's about $13.6 million.

I used to laugh at the idea that someone could carve out a place in an NBA organization as a "capologist," but I'm starting to think that the Wizards organization, among its many issues, doesn't know how to plan for contingencies related to the salary cap. How else to explain a winning plan (and that's certainly what they pass it off as) that added Nene, Okafor, and Ariza, with contracts expiring just in time to resign Wall and Seraphin, leaving little room to do much else?

[Nivek]

Sigh.

I'm puzzled too monte. Especially since any chucklehead on the Internet can look at cap contingencies using publicly available information and a spreadsheet.

[Upper Decker]

Anyone know what the QO is for wall next year?

It's $9.7 million.

The real number matters is the cap hold, and the hold on Wall will be the 0-6 years of experience maximum salary. Under the current salary cap, that's about $13.6 million.

Thanks, Nivek. I know this really hasn't happened before, but how risky is it for Wall to reject a lucrative long term deal and just sign the QO so he can become an UFA in 1.5 years?

I doubt the Wiz offer a 5 year max. In fact, I actually see them botching negotiations with Wall and ticking him off in the process. How likely is it that he'll bolt after next year and the Wiz get nothing in return?

[hands11]

Anyone know what the QO is for wall next year?

It's $9.7 million.

The real number matters is the cap hold, and the hold on Wall will be the 0-6 years of experience maximum salary. Under the current salary cap, that's about $13.6 million.

Where are you getting that. I see him at $7,459,924 next year. Its not until 2014/15 that he is at $9,697,901 qualifying offer.