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Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V

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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#901 » by Zonkerbl » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:04 pm

popper wrote:Would love a response from Progressives here to George Will's column in today's Post (page A15).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html


Completely invalid conclusion from cherry picked data. Even if it wasn't, the sample he uses is too small to reach a scientifically valid conclusion. Perfect example of someone with an agenda deliberately manipulating data to support a fallacious conclusion.

The terrible thing about people like George Will is they are speaking to an audience that desperately wants to believe their lies. And there's no punishment for it - he faces absolutely no penalty to his reputation - in fact, he'll probably be rewarded for pandering to his gullible audience.

Sorry for sounding harsh, but there is nothing worse for science and rational debate than columns like that.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#902 » by popper » Fri Feb 1, 2013 10:02 pm

Don't know whether anyone here watches NBC News but if so you were continually mislead as the network fraudulently shilled for the Obama administration and all things liberal. I guess the pressure from honest news organizations in calling him out was finally too much for the parent company to continue with the charade.


NBC News president Steve Capus steps down

A couple of his more notable falsehoods:

1. During last year's presidential election, Andrea Mitchell was caught manufacturing a Romney gaffe where none existed.

2. During last year's GOP primary, Ed Schultz edited video of Texas Governor Rick Perry to make him look racist.

3. In April of last year, the "Today Show" was caught editing audio of a 9-1-1 call to make George Zimmerman look racist.

4. In August of 2009, Contessa Brewer sliced and diced a photograph so it wouldn't look like a black man attended a Tea Party carrying a firearm.

5. Just this week, NBC News maliciously edited video of a town council meeting to make it look as though Second Amendment civil rights activists heckled a parent who lost his son in Newtown.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#903 » by FAH1223 » Fri Feb 1, 2013 10:23 pm

popper wrote:Don't know whether anyone here watches NBC News but if so you were continually mislead as the network fraudulently shilled for the Obama administration and all things liberal. I guess the pressure from honest news organizations in calling him out was finally too much for the parent company to continue with the charade.


NBC News president Steve Capus steps down

A couple of his more notable falsehoods:

1. During last year's presidential election, Andrea Mitchell was caught manufacturing a Romney gaffe where none existed.

2. During last year's GOP primary, Ed Schultz edited video of Texas Governor Rick Perry to make him look racist.

3. In April of last year, the "Today Show" was caught editing audio of a 9-1-1 call to make George Zimmerman look racist.

4. In August of 2009, Contessa Brewer sliced and diced a photograph so it wouldn't look like a black man attended a Tea Party carrying a firearm.

5. Just this week, NBC News maliciously edited video of a town council meeting to make it look as though Second Amendment civil rights activists heckled a parent who lost his son in Newtown.


Not surprising. NBC shamelessly was pulling everything in their power for the left in the last election. The commercials of MSNBC's personalities talking about America, its future, and all that with regards to the election was just... smh
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#904 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Feb 1, 2013 11:46 pm

Uh... You have heard of Fox News, right?
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#905 » by Wizardspride » Sat Feb 2, 2013 12:01 am

Zonkerbl wrote:Uh... You have heard of Fox News, right?


Haven't you heard?

They're "fair and balanced".
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#906 » by popper » Sat Feb 2, 2013 2:13 am

Not aware of Fox or any other large network editing video footage to mislead public. Let me know if I'm missing something.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#907 » by montestewart » Sat Feb 2, 2013 3:57 am

popper wrote:Not aware of Fox or any other large network editing video footage to mislead public. Let me know if I'm missing something.

A simple google search will do it for you
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#908 » by popper » Sat Feb 2, 2013 4:39 am

montestewart wrote:
popper wrote:Not aware of Fox or any other large network editing video footage to mislead public. Let me know if I'm missing something.

A simple google search will do it for you


You are right. I found some. The responsible there should be fired as well.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#909 » by montestewart » Sat Feb 2, 2013 6:00 am

popper wrote:
montestewart wrote:
popper wrote:Not aware of Fox or any other large network editing video footage to mislead public. Let me know if I'm missing something.

A simple google search will do it for you


You are right. I found some. The responsible there should be fired as well.

The thing is, such distortions in journalism have existed as long as there has been journalism. I think sometimes distortions aren't even intentional/conscious (though they are still distortions).

Some is more biased, some is less biased, but completely unbiased journalism seems pretty hard to find. I assume there's bias in much of it, extreme distortions in some of it, and just try to draw from a range of sources. And hopefully figure it out, somehow.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#910 » by popper » Sat Feb 2, 2013 12:18 pm

In weekly radio address Obama prescribes status quo for economy and cautions that govt. spending reductions would result in job losses. I shutter to think where the economy would be without $85 Billion a month in Fed stimulus and an additional $100 Billion a month in deficit spending. Pull that combined $185 Billion a month and our economy would look much different. On the other hand, continue with the status quo and we are doomed to become the next Greece.

What would you do if you were President? Isn't it better to swallow our medicine now, endure the economic hit for a year or so, and then grow rapidly from there? At some point soon we will be forced to take drastic measures to reduce spending and IMO it is better to do it now vs. when the international lenders have us by the balls.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#911 » by Induveca » Sat Feb 2, 2013 1:40 pm

Popper, not just Greece......Greece with guns.

I don't understand the US any longer. I completely understood, but didn't agree, with former US policy after military action. Invade Panama, overthrow Noriega, install puppet president. Panama Canal is safe/under US control, drug money laundering squashed to a large degree.

US supports invasion of Libya, Mali, Afghanistan with no real benefit to the country and massive expenditure. Meanwhile, on their own border Mexico presents a larger threat than all three combined. Russia and China are colonizing the entire Western Hemisphere other than US/Canada and taking over economies/governments with back door strategies. The US is losing at their own game.

I now see more Chinese goods vs American at a 10 to 1 clip in the Dominican Republic. As a kid 25 years ago it was the exact opposite. All new buses are Chinese, most car parts and cars, new resorts are run by Russian cartels regardless of who "owns" them. Same here 25 years ago, US cartels ran the resorts.

We are living through an age similar to the initial steep decline of Rome. The US dominated the world by being jerks, and taking resources/market share by semi-benevolent force (oxymoron I know). I think the world will long for the days of US capitalism vs the Chinese or Russian version in 10 years.

Frightening.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#912 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Feb 2, 2013 1:47 pm

Induveca wrote:Popper, not just Greece......Greece with guns.

I don't understand the US any longer. I completely understood, but didn't agree, with former US policy after military action. Invade Panama, overthrow Noriega, install puppet president. Panama Canal is safe/under US control, drug money laundering squashed to a large degree.

US supports invasion of Libya, Mali, Afghanistan with no real benefit to the country and massive expenditure. Meanwhile, on their own border Mexico presents a larger threat than all three combined.

We are living through an age similar to the initial steep decline of Rome.


Induveca, the invasion of Libya was monetary. Couldn't have a unified African dinar. Qaddafi was thinking of repricing his oil and using gold dinars.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVEpQhBZYq0[/youtube]

Hillary and Barack took that dude out IMO. Conservative and liberal alike probably agreed on that. NATO did the guy in with a sophisticated hit. Lured him out of safety and took out his convoy, leaving the man to die like a rat in a sewer at the hands of his own barbaric homeland enemies. Muammar was a billionaire. He crossed some line and paid the price.

That is my opinion from the outside looking in.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#913 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Feb 2, 2013 1:58 pm

Induveca wrote:US supports invasion of Libya, Mali, Afghanistan with no real benefit to the country and massive expenditure. Meanwhile, on their own border Mexico presents a larger threat than all three combined. Russia and China are colonizing the entire Western Hemisphere other than US/Canada and taking over economies/governments with back door strategies. The US is losing at their own game.


Induveca, my hunch is the war in Afghanistan has a lot to do with drugs. That region is the home of a great deal of poppy fields and drug money that fuel the efforts of terrorist/enemies abroad.

Usually with wars if you follow the money trail you will find the true motivation behind the conflict.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/cntpo/

Pentagon Wants to Keep Running Its Afghan Drug War From Blackwater’s HQ


Image

TREK NAWA, Helmand province, Afghanistan — An Afghan National Army soldier opens a container of diesel fuel to dump it on a pile of dried brush. The ANA soldiers who participated in Operation Crack Back burned a marijuana field they came across during the operation. (Official U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Earnest J. Barnes)


(I can't help wondering that soldier isn't thinking, "What a waste of good weed.") :lol:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/cntpo/

The U.S. war in Afghanistan is supposed to be winding down. Its contractor-led drug war? Not so much.

Inside a compound in Kabul called Camp Integrity, the Pentagon stations a small group of officers to oversee the U.S. military’s various operations to curb the spread of Afghanistan’s cash crops of heroin and marijuana, which help line the Taliban’s pockets. Only Camp Integrity isn’t a U.S. military base at all. It’s the 10-acre Afghanistan headquarters of the private security company formerly known as Blackwater.


All that points to an enduring role for the military going after drugs and drug money in Afghanistan. It’s certainly an enduring problem: On Tuesday, the United Nations found that Afghan poppy cultivation rose nearly 20 percent over the past two years, especially in the southwestern Helmand province. Just last week, the U.S. military took the unusual step of classifying Mullah Naim Barich, the top Taliban operative in Helmand, as a “significant foreign narcotics trafficker or kingpin,’” allowing the U.S. to target companies that do business with him.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#914 » by hands11 » Sat Feb 2, 2013 11:53 pm

Induveca wrote:Popper, not just Greece......Greece with guns.

I don't understand the US any longer. I completely understood, but didn't agree, with former US policy after military action. Invade Panama, overthrow Noriega, install puppet president. Panama Canal is safe/under US control, drug money laundering squashed to a large degree.

US supports invasion of Libya, Mali, Afghanistan with no real benefit to the country and massive expenditure. Meanwhile, on their own border Mexico presents a larger threat than all three combined. Russia and China are colonizing the entire Western Hemisphere other than US/Canada and taking over economies/governments with back door strategies. The US is losing at their own game.

I now see more Chinese goods vs American at a 10 to 1 clip in the Dominican Republic. As a kid 25 years ago it was the exact opposite. All new buses are Chinese, most car parts and cars, new resorts are run by Russian cartels regardless of who "owns" them. Same here 25 years ago, US cartels ran the resorts.

We are living through an age similar to the initial steep decline of Rome. The US dominated the world by being jerks, and taking resources/market share by semi-benevolent force (oxymoron I know). I think the world will long for the days of US capitalism vs the Chinese or Russian version in 10 years.

Frightening.


Lets not leave out the massive amount of people we killed in over throwing those governments, democracies, and in fighting our own wars. Truman, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush. It is simply disgusting. Trillions of dollars and millions of lives. And so much suffering. And all for what. What did Vietnam, Cambodia, Loas get us. Iraq and Afghanistan. And those are just the highlights.

50,000 US soldier died in Vietnam. You know how many we killed ? 3.5 Million. And we burned their forest and poisoned their land with chemicals. History is written by the winners. It takes a bit longer for the real truth to get out and it may never sink in because people don't want to believe what really happened and why.

To many people bicker about the small stuff. what they call government waste when the macro factors at play are much more scary and evil. The wasted capitol and lives since WWII with an out of control CIA and Pentagon has been a tragedy.

The Military Industrial Complex and war machine has been the biggest waste by far. All accomplish through propaganda to sell the idea of perpetual war as ok. And to do so, you have to keep the people in a constant state of fear. Fear the communists. War on terrorism. War on drugs. Hell, they even stoked the fires that there was a war on Christmas. These same people even tried to see the idea that Obama was not a US citizen. Basically an undercover agent of anti American interest in control of our country.

Keep the people in fear and they will elect you to do anything you want.

There were two clear turning points that lead us down this wrong path. One was after FDR and the ensuing build up of nuclear weapons as we turn Russia from friend to foe. The other was when we were at a turning point in the 60s. That was when JFK as President, then his brother when he going to run for President, and MLK were all assassinated. People that believed in peace and equal right. People that wanted to focus on what was going on inside our country over controlling the world. JFK was not a fan of like CIA and Pentagons Imperialistic view of the United States. He had to go. He was jeopardizing the big money war machine. And why MLK had to go speaks for itself.

Instead of there being a changing of the guards from the old WWII old establishment in Washington to the new guard of JFK, we reverted back to the old conservative guard of Johnson, then Nixon, Reagen the Bush. For 50 years we have been on this wrong path.

We are at one of those turning points again, only this time it is much more likely to stick. Much of what MLK spoke about is being realized and the old conservative war mongering approach to the world is falling out of favor. Once we wrap up this war in Afghanistan, people are going to start to take a good long hard look at what happen. What went wrong. Who took us there and why. And how will we approach the world moving forward. The old and their ways are dying off. The new generation is different.

We will see what happens. I feel the tide has turned. The change that was attempted in the 60s is going to take hold. 50 years. Not a surprise. Cycles seem to change every 40-50 years. That is the time it takes for a new generation to come to power.

This is what I spoke about before the R primaries. Its the end of a cycle. That brand of conservatism is coming to and end. They may try to put some new window dressing on it and sell it as new another election cycle but I don't think it will work. The country is center left and its likely to be that way for the next 40-50 year cycle.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#915 » by Induveca » Sun Feb 3, 2013 12:38 am

Old conservative war mongering falling out of favor? The world is in a perpetual state of war right now, isn't this obvious?

The US took over countries in South/Central America by creating a complete dependence on US goods between the 60s-90s. Now? China is quickly flipping the script. The US is desperately trying to answer but simply can't compete on price.

Russian mobs (backed by Putin) have infested every resort in the Caribbean and South America. China is taking over Africa via construction contracts and product donations.

What is the US doing other than rapidly losing global market share? Obama's administration is clueless. Much of what made Americans so rich was their global dominance. China is catching up quickly, and Russian cartels with 90% of them having military training are installing militias all around the Western Hemisphere.

Mexico is the hottest zone in the world outside of Syria, and on the US border. Meanwhile the US focuses on providing healthcare instead of protecting its borders.

Just so damn obvious it is shocking so few recognize it....
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#916 » by penbeast0 » Sun Feb 3, 2013 2:09 am

hands11 wrote:
Induveca wrote:Popper, not just Greece......Greece with guns.

I don't understand the US any longer. I completely understood, but didn't agree, with former US policy after military action. Invade Panama, overthrow Noriega, install puppet president. Panama Canal is safe/under US control, drug money laundering squashed to a large degree.

US supports invasion of Libya, Mali, Afghanistan with no real benefit to the country and massive expenditure. Meanwhile, on their own border Mexico presents a larger threat than all three combined. Russia and China are colonizing the entire Western Hemisphere other than US/Canada and taking over economies/governments with back door strategies. The US is losing at their own game.

I now see more Chinese goods vs American at a 10 to 1 clip in the Dominican Republic. As a kid 25 years ago it was the exact opposite. All new buses are Chinese, most car parts and cars, new resorts are run by Russian cartels regardless of who "owns" them. Same here 25 years ago, US cartels ran the resorts.

We are living through an age similar to the initial steep decline of Rome. The US dominated the world by being jerks, and taking resources/market share by semi-benevolent force (oxymoron I know). I think the world will long for the days of US capitalism vs the Chinese or Russian version in 10 years.

Frightening.


Lets not leave out the massive amount of people we killed in over throwing those governments, democracies, and in fighting our own wars. Truman, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush. It is simply disgusting. Trillions of dollars and millions of lives. And so much suffering. And all for what. What did Vietnam, Cambodia, Loas get us. Iraq and Afghanistan. And those are just the highlights.

50,000 US soldier died in Vietnam. You know how many we killed ? 3.5 Million. And we burned their forest and poisoned their land with chemicals. History is written by the winners. It takes a bit longer for the real truth to get out and it may never sink in because people don't want to believe what really happened and why.

To many people bicker about the small stuff. what they call government waste when the macro factors at play are much more scary and evil. The wasted capitol and lives since WWII with an out of control CIA and Pentagon has been a tragedy.

The Military Industrial Complex and war machine has been the biggest waste by far. All accomplish through propaganda to sell the idea of perpetual war as ok. And to do so, you have to keep the people in a constant state of fear. Fear the communists. War on terrorism. War on drugs. Hell, they even stoked the fires that there was a war on Christmas. These same people even tried to see the idea that Obama was not a US citizen. Basically an undercover agent of anti American interest in control of our country.

Keep the people in fear and they will elect you to do anything you want.

There were two clear turning points that lead us down this wrong path. One was after FDR and the ensuing build up of nuclear weapons as we turn Russia from friend to foe. The other was when we were at a turning point in the 60s. That was when JFK as President, then his brother when he going to run for President, and MLK were all assassinated. People that believed in peace and equal right. People that wanted to focus on what was going on inside our country over controlling the world. JFK was not a fan of like CIA and Pentagons Imperialistic view of the United States. He had to go. He was jeopardizing the big money war machine. And why MLK had to go speaks for itself.

Instead of there being a changing of the guards from the old WWII old establishment in Washington to the new guard of JFK, we reverted back to the old conservative guard of Johnson, then Nixon, Reagen the Bush. For 50 years we have been on this wrong path.

We are at one of those turning points again, only this time it is much more likely to stick. Much of what MLK spoke about is being realized and the old conservative war mongering approach to the world is falling out of favor. Once we wrap up this war in Afghanistan, people are going to start to take a good long hard look at what happen. What went wrong. Who took us there and why. And how will we approach the world moving forward. The old and their ways are dying off. The new generation is different.

We will see what happens. I feel the tide has turned. The change that was attempted in the 60s is going to take hold. 50 years. Not a surprise. Cycles seem to change every 40-50 years. That is the time it takes for a new generation to come to power.

This is what I spoke about before the R primaries. Its the end of a cycle. That brand of conservatism is coming to and end. They may try to put some new window dressing on it and sell it as new another election cycle but I don't think it will work. The country is center left and its likely to be that way for the next 40-50 year cycle.


The Russians were our friends AFTER the war . . . at Potsdam and Yalta? Really?

JFK OPPOSED the military/industrial complex? He didn't escalate our commitment in Vietnam drastically? His family business interests weren't deeply involved in the military/industrial complex?

MLK and the Kennedies were killed by military/industrial backed forces?

Lyndon "The Great Society" Johnson was promoting the "brand of conservatism?"

Okaaay . . .
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#917 » by hands11 » Sun Feb 3, 2013 4:38 am

You do realize Russia was our ally in WWII right ?

Johnson was conservative war hawk against Vietnam

Kennedy was against a lot of the thing the military wanted to do. Bay of Pigs, etc.

As for the murders of MLK and the bothers Kennedy in such a short time span. If you thing those were just lone gunman, I can't help you there. That doesn't pass the sniff test.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#918 » by montestewart » Sun Feb 3, 2013 5:39 am

hands11 wrote:You do realize Russia was our ally in WWII right ?

News to me. Got a link?
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#919 » by popper » Sun Feb 3, 2013 3:00 pm

Spock, where are you? Our country is in desperate need of the Vulcan influence. Although my grasp of logic is superficial and comes from introductory philosophy courses I contend that almost every problem our country encounters and tries to solve is done so through a prism of logical fallacy. Both our representatives and the media seem incapable of employing logic when attempting to understand and solve the myriad problems we face.

I wish we could employ a small team of the best philosophers to analyze problems and potential solutions and reorient our collective attempts at both. A nation that promotes a problem-solving culture that substitutes logic for lazy and partisan thought might be the best way out of our current predicaments.
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Re: Political Roundtable Cosmic String of Cataclysm - Part V 

Post#920 » by LyricalRico » Sun Feb 3, 2013 3:41 pm

popper wrote:Spock, where are you? Our country is in desperate need of the Vulcan influence.


But wasn't one of the ongoing storylines of Star Trek that Spock was gradually learning to embrace his non-logical "human" side? Same with Data on TNG - always trying to become less logical and more "human".

Maybe a little OT, but it's the same with a lot of romantic comedies. The plot is always about a stuffy guy who's smart and logical, but isn't having any fun. Then he meets some crazy chick who helps him learn how to enjoy life by throwing logic to the wind. Here's a hilarious spoof on this phenomenon:

http://www.themarysue.com/manic-pixie-d ... rostitute/

I guess I'm trying to say that the implication is that to be logical is to be "non-human", that it's much better to make irrational decisions and be passionate about things that are actually quite silly because somehow that's what life is all about.

(Like I said, a little OT, but thought it was interesting.)

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