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Looking at the numbers . . .

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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby dobrojim on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:44 pm

I don't know how important this is but I will simply note that early
on as a Frosh last year Beal also struggled. Then he got better.
Which is the bigger jump, HS -> NCAA div 1 or NCAA div 1 -> NBA.
I think the latter.

Do I have concerns that his shooting has not been good? Sure.
Let's see how he shoots after the all star break.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby nate33 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:13 pm


Interesting. I never would have guessed that he compares so unfavorably in rebounds.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby nate33 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:23 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:DeShawn played in the finals and has a ring. Caron played in the playoffs with the Clippers and is still starting. He DeShawn and Brendan are NBA Champions, even if they were along for the ride. All are useful players who could help this Wizards team. Jamison played worse in Cleveland and was so bad he's with the Lakers. Miller was worse with the Heat due to injuries, until he hit six threes in a deciding NBA Championship game. He is better off. Young played worse with the Clippers and might not be any better at all with Philly but still has the support of Doug Collins. McGee was a guy I predicted was going to be playing in the playoffs when Denver appeared to be mailing in their season. He has more playoff appearances than Okafor, already.

CCJ, it drives me crazy when you do this. You cherrypick anecdotal evidence to back up your assertions, when any unbiased observation using real stats say just the opposite. Just because Miller hit 6 threes in one game does not mean he was a better player after he left. Just because Jamison has found himself on the Lakers, does not mean he played better. Just because DeShawn got a ring while playing 16 minutes a game doesn't mean he played better after leaving.

It's obviously true that these players left a bad team and joined a contending team and therefore probably enjoyed their new position better. But the whole reason this argument started was because you implied that the Wizards are somehow fundamentally deficient in getting the best out of their players. That's simply not the case. Their deficiency is in acquiring good players in the first place. The ones that they get play within their career norms when they're here.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby tontoz on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:02 pm

The Wizards are currently 15th in defensive efficiency and 12th in defensive rebounding rate. The latter number comes as a bit of a shock.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby Nivek on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:32 pm

Wiz are not awful on defense although I think they'll miss Ariza on that end. They might welcome his absence on the offensive end, however.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby Chocolate City Jordanaire on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:26 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:DeShawn played in the finals and has a ring. Caron played in the playoffs with the Clippers and is still starting. He DeShawn and Brendan are NBA Champions, even if they were along for the ride. All are useful players who could help this Wizards team. Jamison played worse in Cleveland and was so bad he's with the Lakers. Miller was worse with the Heat due to injuries, until he hit six threes in a deciding NBA Championship game. He is better off. Young played worse with the Clippers and might not be any better at all with Philly but still has the support of Doug Collins. McGee was a guy I predicted was going to be playing in the playoffs when Denver appeared to be mailing in their season. He has more playoff appearances than Okafor, already.

CCJ, it drives me crazy when you do this. You cherrypick anecdotal evidence to back up your assertions, when any unbiased observation using real stats say just the opposite. Just because Miller hit 6 threes in one game does not mean he was a better player after he left. Just because Jamison has found himself on the Lakers, does not mean he played better. Just because DeShawn got a ring while playing 16 minutes a game doesn't mean he played better after leaving.

It's obviously true that these players left a bad team and joined a contending team and therefore probably enjoyed their new position better. But the whole reason this argument started was because you implied that the Wizards are somehow fundamentally deficient in getting the best out of their players. That's simply not the case. Their deficiency is in acquiring good players in the first place. The ones that they get play within their career norms when they're here.


McGee is playing his best right now. Blatche is playing his best right now. The Wizards could have gotten this Blatche with Seraphin and Nene, without signing Okafor. They did not get the best out of McGee or Blatche.

I would be the last to argue they don't get the best talent. I suggest year after year the talented players they do not draft.

nate, I don't even remember what the initial point was but the stats I posted show none of the players that played key roles for teams better than the Wizards dropped off in production. I read posts that imply they basically fizzled out and failed elsewhere. My point is they virtually always have better careers post-Wizards. Guys the Wizard cannot wait to get rid of are useful elsewhere.

What I believe is they are the same players in a better situation.

I think the Wizards organization lost a lot more games due to poor rosters, poor management decisions, injuries, and at times lousy coaching. None of that really matters to me, however.

Right now I am interested in this team, this season. I think Wittman is a good coach and that some things are bound to get better soon.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby mhd on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:28 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:DeShawn played in the finals and has a ring. Caron played in the playoffs with the Clippers and is still starting. He DeShawn and Brendan are NBA Champions, even if they were along for the ride. All are useful players who could help this Wizards team. Jamison played worse in Cleveland and was so bad he's with the Lakers. Miller was worse with the Heat due to injuries, until he hit six threes in a deciding NBA Championship game. He is better off. Young played worse with the Clippers and might not be any better at all with Philly but still has the support of Doug Collins. McGee was a guy I predicted was going to be playing in the playoffs when Denver appeared to be mailing in their season. He has more playoff appearances than Okafor, already.

CCJ, it drives me crazy when you do this. You cherrypick anecdotal evidence to back up your assertions, when any unbiased observation using real stats say just the opposite. Just because Miller hit 6 threes in one game does not mean he was a better player after he left. Just because Jamison has found himself on the Lakers, does not mean he played better. Just because DeShawn got a ring while playing 16 minutes a game doesn't mean he played better after leaving.

It's obviously true that these players left a bad team and joined a contending team and therefore probably enjoyed their new position better. But the whole reason this argument started was because you implied that the Wizards are somehow fundamentally deficient in getting the best out of their players. That's simply not the case. Their deficiency is in acquiring good players in the first place. The ones that they get play within their career norms when they're here.


McGee is playing his best right now. Blatche is playing his best right now. The Wizards could have gotten this Blatche with Seraphin and Nene, without signing Okafor. They did not get the best out of McGee or Blatche.

I would be the last to argue they don't get the best talent. I suggest year after year the talented players they do not draft.

nate, I don't even remember what the initial point was but the stats I posted show none of the players that played key roles for teams better than the Wizards dropped off in production. I read posts that imply they basically fizzled out and failed elsewhere. My point is they virtually always have better careers post-Wizards. Guys the Wizard cannot wait to get rid of are useful elsewhere.

What I believe is they are the same players in a better situation.

I think the Wizards organization lost a lot more games due to poor rosters, poor management decisions, injuries, and at times lousy coaching. None of that really matters to me, however.

Right now I am interested in this team, this season. I think Wittman is a good coach and that some things are bound to get better soon.



CCJ, Blatche has been out of shape for 2 years. It took him being amnestied before he got in shape.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby dandridge 10 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:29 pm



Thank you for this. I will still have concerns until Beal starts knocking down open jumpers, but this makes me feel better. :D
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby hands11 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:25 pm

CCJ. My man. Brother. Let it go. Really. Just let it go.

How about focusing on ... by the number, how do you line the Wizards up best you can. None of those players are here anymore. Turn the page.
From 2008 to 2011 How many games did Nene not play. Answer 12
I hope he can return to that.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby Zonkerbl on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:59 am

Wow, Jordan Crawford with a 74. He looks like he's doing really well and then you look at his actual production and...
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby Nivek on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:12 pm

This week's numbers are up at the blog, PLUS information from my ongoing investigation into The Curse of Les Boulez (adapted from my post in the curse thread CCJ started).

Improvers this week: Cartier Martin, Jordan Crawford (to ABOVE AVERAGE), Bradley Beal and Seraphin. Seraphin's improvement still leaves him below replacement level. I'd love to see Crawford at least maintain what he's been able to do thus far. He's ALMOST at league average offensive efficiency. He needs to improve defensively, but he's making progress.

On the other side: Nene and Webster. Webster got into the starting lineup and did next to nothing.

Hoping to get a look at Crawford's historical comps sometime this week.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby GhostsOfGil on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:41 pm

Nivek wrote:This week's numbers are up at the blog, PLUS information from my ongoing investigation into The Curse of Les Boulez (adapted from my post in the curse thread CCJ started).

Improvers this week: Cartier Martin, Jordan Crawford (to ABOVE AVERAGE), Bradley Beal and Seraphin. Seraphin's improvement still leaves him below replacement level. I'd love to see Crawford at least maintain what he's been able to do thus far. He's ALMOST at league average offensive efficiency. He needs to improve defensively, but he's making progress.

On the other side: Nene and Webster. Webster got into the starting lineup and did next to nothing.

Hoping to get a look at Crawford's historical comps sometime this week.


Kev, can you explain how Emeka Okafor is rated so highly in your system?
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby Nivek on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:48 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:
Nivek wrote:This week's numbers are up at the blog, PLUS information from my ongoing investigation into The Curse of Les Boulez (adapted from my post in the curse thread CCJ started).

Improvers this week: Cartier Martin, Jordan Crawford (to ABOVE AVERAGE), Bradley Beal and Seraphin. Seraphin's improvement still leaves him below replacement level. I'd love to see Crawford at least maintain what he's been able to do thus far. He's ALMOST at league average offensive efficiency. He needs to improve defensively, but he's making progress.

On the other side: Nene and Webster. Webster got into the starting lineup and did next to nothing.

Hoping to get a look at Crawford's historical comps sometime this week.


Kev, can you explain how Emeka Okafor is rated so highly in your system?


No.











j/k

Okafor doesn't offer much on offense, but his usage is lower than average and his efficiency is at a point where he's still adding some value offensively. Where he gets most of his rating is from 3 categories where he's average or above average this season: rebounding (especially offensive rebounding), steals and blocks.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby pancakes3 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:53 pm

I think it's funny how bad OkaRiza have fared on the wizards it really does look like a curse. Okafor hasn't shot sub-50% since 2006. Playing with CP3 did help but CP3 wasn't with him in Charlotte for 3 of those seasons. Ariza was never good. Always flirting with .400 shooting (except for the salad days in LA) but this season he dropped 5 full percentage points down to 35% shooting.

It's almost like players who have had experience on good teams come here and they're dumbfounded at the way ball is being played here. Then when players who were here are liberated they're shocked to see how good competent teams have it.
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Re: Looking at the numbers . . .

Postby Nivek on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:12 pm

Updated my power rankings. Wizards still rank 30th.
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