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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I

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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#301 » by hands11 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:48 pm

Nivek wrote:
montestewart wrote:Nivek or someone else on the board compared measurables of Beasley and Love as they were entering the draft. My recollection is that the numbers (size, speed, strength, leap, etc.) were remarkably similar, but contemporaneous descriptions of the two (also included in the post) seemed to defy these numbers, with Beasley described more as a fast and freakishly athletic player, and Love described more as a slower, floor bound, fundamentally sound player. Maybe there was a lot of stereotyping going on, and it may still follow Love.


I've been talking about that for awhile. Here's a handy little table showing measurables for Love, Beasley and the average drafted PF:

Code: Select all

CATEGORY    LOVE    BEASLEY AVG PF
HEIGHT      6-9.5   6-8.25  6-7.95
WEIGHT      255     239     235
StndRch     8-10    8-11      8-11
MaxVert     35.0    35.0    33.4
LaneAgil    11.17   11.06   11.55
Sprint      3.22    3.24    3.30
Bench       18      19      13.2


Only significant difference between Love and Beasely was body fat measure -- Love at 12.9% and Beasley at 7.7%.

And yet, the narratives on the two were hilariously uniform. Every scouting sight agreed that Beasley was an elite athlete with an NBA-ready body and that Love wasn't athletic enough to overcome his lack of size to play inside.

Really interesting players in a lot of ways. Both were extremely productive in college. Both were solidly better than average athletes for their position while both physically measured at norms for their position. Their YODA scores were nearly identical (excellent). Yet one has become one of the game's best players, and the other a bust.

I do wonder if Beasley's perceived elite athleticism worked against him in the pros. Everywhere he's been, his NBA team keeps trying to play him at SF. Maybe someone needs to play him at PF and see if he can do the job.

By the way, Beasley's (and Love's) combine scores for athleticism -- above average for a SF. Yet no one ever talked about making Love into a SF.

(Yes, I do think that perceptions in this case were affected by skin color.)


I would say Love is the more athletic one seeing that he is doing it with 15 more pounds on his frame. Maybe Beasley could try adding some weight/muscle so he is better suited for PF.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#302 » by hands11 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:08 pm

popper wrote:
Halcyon wrote:
popper wrote:Question for anyone / everyone. Players like Josh Smith, Keven Love, Zach Randolph and Faried intrigue me with their overachieving accomplishments in the face of what appears to be average athleticism and physical appearance. Can their extraordinary mojo be quantified in some way to predict similar overachievers in future drafts?

Where's the green font? :lol:


Good one Halcyon. I deserved it. I was just curious as to why the four players I mentioned rebound so much better than other pros with similar measurables. Positioning? Reading the ball flight early and anticipating angles? Ability to push other players out of position? All of the above maybe? And finally, can those skills be taught?

If so, Seraphon could use a crash course.


While physical measurement matter, there is obviously a good part of this that goes to what is between their ears and what kind of heart they have. Generally.. Personality. That is the part that needs to get highlighted more. This is one of the reason I want to learn about their background and see them interviewed.

Beal is the right kind of mind to play SG effectively at a higher level. As he grows up, I think he will be a very solid player in the league. While he is a polite kid, he has that fire inside and drive that as he matures, he will be a big stage type competitor.

Nene has the perfect mind set and drive to be a PF. So that two positions set.

There is a lot regarding personality, experience, drive, smarts and heart that goes into being a good or great NBA player. The physical skills are important sure, but the other stuff needs to get identified. Its the stuff that made CCJ fall in love with Faried. Its why we liked players like Lillard and Crawder. Look at the difference it even makes with a player like LeBron. LeBron has honed his game mentally.

Kevin S is a good example. He should dominate a lot more then he does but it doesn't seem he has the mental make up to do it. The exercise I would run on Kevin would be to find some big DC street ballers and put them around the basket and tell him he need to score going toward the rim. Basically rough house without the outside shooting. I would give the street ballers $1000 for every basket they make against Kevin and take it from him salary. The kid need to learn what a hungry player plays like. Or as I said before, send him to an Army boot camp.

This organization did purge itself of the goofballs, but what it added and what is left is to vanilla. Look at all the quit types the team has.

Trevor A, Okafor, Booker, Ves, Martin, Kevin S, C Singleton and Mack 1.0 Thats to many players of that type for one team. You can have one or two but not eight.

All nice guys and all have some BB skills, but they are not wired like Nene, Beal, Crawford, Wall and Webster

With what they have, Wall, Beal, Crawford with Mack 2.0 and Martin is fine as a mix of personalities but without Wall out there, you are two and two and Beal is only 19. Adding Wall would tip this over into a much more swagish group.

Webster has it for the SF group but he hasn't translated it to enough production on the court so he can't maximize all of his personality and drive to lead. The rest of the SF don't seem to have it so the team is pretty weak there. That position needs to add a player with some swag and game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... l-forwards

Pretty much any player from the top 20 would be a huge upgrade for the Wizards in production and heart at SF. Most good SF are full of piss n vinegar. The lifeless group of SFs on this team is a big reason the team gets chumped so often.

Then you look at the front court and all you have is Nene. Okafor, Kevin S, Ves. None of them have it. All of them play like punks. It would make world of difference to this team if they could find a way to light that fire in Kevin. Nene could really use another beast to help him in the post.

One a team with so many of these softer personality types, no Wall and Nene to start the year was crushing. That only left Beal 19, Crawford, and Webster to lead the team. Thats not going to work. Now they have Nene back. Well he needs to lead. Mostly he needs to work on Kevin S and Ves. That is part of your job Nene. You think KG and Kobe leaves it all up the coaches and GM to work out. NO

Beal is maturing so that helps and hopefully Wall is back soon, so that will help.

But they need at SF that they just don't have and they need to keep adding the right kind of personalities that will help. A Faried or Crawder would be great for this team.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#303 » by Dr Positivity » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:26 am

IMO

1. Alex Len
2. Anthony Bennett
3. Cody Zeller
4. Marcus Smart
5. Ben McLemore
6. Le'Bryan Nash
7. Archie Goodwin

I am comfortable calling all those guys all-star talents. That seems like a lot but I think this is maybe a good draft.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#304 » by BruceO » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:24 pm

you forgot shabazz. with his mentality he's the obvious pick. unless we come dead last he will be gone by our pick. This team needs a scorer. Then beal is sixth man scorer like k mart, crawford, harden, ginobli
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#305 » by dangermouse » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:53 pm

I'd just put Shabazz at the 3. I dont think Beal is the type of guy you wheel out as a 6th man. Hes not a great scorer or a great playmaker. His best assets right now are his defense, and while it has been on and off, his shooting. Hiopefully those skills improve some more.

He should be the 3&D shooting guard while Shabazz is the scorer and Wall is the playmaker. I think Shabazz could be a Harden/Manu type when it comes to their scoring ability, but also able to play the 3 spot. I think he could be like Stackhouse in his prime, but better.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#306 » by LyricalRico » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:54 pm

dangermouse wrote:I'd just put Shabazz at the 3. I dont think Beal is the type of guy you wheel out as a 6th man. Hes not a great scorer or a great playmaker. His best assets right now are his defense, and while it has been on and off, his shooting. Hiopefully those skills improve some more.

He should be the 3&D shooting guard while Shabazz is the scorer and Wall is the playmaker. I think Shabazz could be a Harden/Manu type when it comes to their scoring ability, but also able to play the 3 spot. I think he could be like Stackhouse in his prime, but better.


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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#307 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:08 pm

hands11 wrote:
popper wrote:
Good one Halcyon. I deserved it. I was just curious as to why the four players I mentioned rebound so much better than other pros with similar measurables. Positioning? Reading the ball flight early and anticipating angles? Ability to push other players out of position? All of the above maybe? And finally, can those skills be taught?

If so, Seraphon could use a crash course.


While physical measurement matter, there is obviously a good part of this that goes to what is between their ears and what kind of heart they have. Generally.. Personality. That is the part that needs to get highlighted more. This is one of the reason I want to learn about their background and see them interviewed.

Beal is the right kind of mind to play SG effectively at a higher level. As he grows up, I think he will be a very solid player in the league. While he is a polite kid, he has that fire inside and drive that as he matures, he will be a big stage type competitor.

Nene has the perfect mind set and drive to be a PF. So that two positions set.

There is a lot regarding personality, experience, drive, smarts and heart that goes into being a good or great NBA player. The physical skills are important sure, but the other stuff needs to get identified. Its the stuff that made CCJ fall in love with Faried. Its why we liked players like Lillard and Crawder. Look at the difference it even makes with a player like LeBron. LeBron has honed his game mentally.

Kevin S is a good example. He should dominate a lot more then he does but it doesn't seem he has the mental make up to do it. The exercise I would run on Kevin would be to find some big DC street ballers and put them around the basket and tell him he need to score going toward the rim. Basically rough house without the outside shooting. I would give the street ballers $1000 for every basket they make against Kevin and take it from him salary. The kid need to learn what a hungry player plays like. Or as I said before, send him to an Army boot camp.

This organization did purge itself of the goofballs, but what it added and what is left is to vanilla. Look at all the quit types the team has.

Trevor A, Okafor, Booker, Ves, Martin, Kevin S, C Singleton and Mack 1.0 Thats to many players of that type for one team. You can have one or two but not eight.

All nice guys and all have some BB skills, but they are not wired like Nene, Beal, Crawford, Wall and Webster

With what they have, Wall, Beal, Crawford with Mack 2.0 and Martin is fine as a mix of personalities but without Wall out there, you are two and two and Beal is only 19. Adding Wall would tip this over into a much more swagish group.

Webster has it for the SF group but he hasn't translated it to enough production on the court so he can't maximize all of his personality and drive to lead. The rest of the SF don't seem to have it so the team is pretty weak there. That position needs to add a player with some swag and game.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... l-forwards

Pretty much any player from the top 20 would be a huge upgrade for the Wizards in production and heart at SF. Most good SF are full of piss n vinegar. The lifeless group of SFs on this team is a big reason the team gets chumped so often.

Then you look at the front court and all you have is Nene. Okafor, Kevin S, Ves. None of them have it. All of them play like punks. It would make world of difference to this team if they could find a way to light that fire in Kevin. Nene could really use another beast to help him in the post.

One a team with so many of these softer personality types, no Wall and Nene to start the year was crushing. That only left Beal 19, Crawford, and Webster to lead the team. Thats not going to work. Now they have Nene back. Well he needs to lead. Mostly he needs to work on Kevin S and Ves. That is part of your job Nene. You think KG and Kobe leaves it all up the coaches and GM to work out. NO

Beal is maturing so that helps and hopefully Wall is back soon, so that will help.

But they need at SF that they just don't have and they need to keep adding the right kind of personalities that will help. A Faried or Crawder would be great for this team.


Seraphin came to the NBA the same season Larry Sanders was in the draft. I really liked Sanders and wanted the Wizards to pick him. He was a teammate of Eric Maynor's at VCU and had a lot of success in the NCAAs. Quite honestly, I was one of the last people to learn about Seraphin. I recall being worried about Seraphin's buyout and also thought he might be an international player who wasn't ready. doclinkin and others liked him a lot. So, I thought Kevin Seraphin must be pretty good just on my trust in their draft knowledge. Regardless, I wanted Sanders on the Wizards.

I bring up Sanders because for two years he was pretty obscure player with the Milwaukee Bucks. Sanders would play 10-15 minutes a game, give 3 or 4 points, 3 or rebounds, and a block here or there. Larry Sanders was nothing special. In fact, at the end of last season Seraphin looked like he might be something special. Seraphin is one year younger than Sanders. Unlike the Bucks, who drafted John Henson and traded for Epke Udoh who are both young guys themselves and not established players; the Wizards acquired Okafor and they started Booker this season ahead of Seraphin. Sanders established himself as ready to be perhaps the best shot blocker in the league this season. He's holding off Henson for now. Seraphin, however, has regressed. I think EG's roster has been the main reason.

hands, I agree with you on Seraphin. I think his mindset is not complete or prepared to dominate. Instead of having him take a street ball approach, I would make arrangements to send Kevin down to the Iowa Energy.

http://www.nba.com/jazz/news/20120717-j ... horns.html

The NBA D-League will again have 16 teams playing in 2012-13, which, in addition to the Bighorns, includes (NBA parent teams in parentheses): the Austin Toros (San Antonio), Bakersfield Jam (Atlanta, L.A. Clippers, Phoenix, Toronto), Canton (Cleveland), Dakota Wizards (Golden State), Erie BayHawks (New York), Fort Wayne Mad Ants (Charlotte, Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee), Idaho Stampede (Portland), Iowa Energy (Chicago, Denver, New Orleans, Washington), Los Angeles D-Fenders (L.A. Lakers), Maine Red Claws (Boston), Rio Grande Valley Vipers (Houston), Sioux Falls Skyforce (Miami, Minnesota, Orlando, Philadelphia), Springfield Armor (Brooklyn), Texas Legends (Dallas) and Tulsa 66ers (Oklahoma City).


Unless there is something in writing who cares what the Wizards said to get Seraphin to come from Cholet? His game has regressed and playing in the D-League might allow Kevin to dominate. He's not passing wisely or establishing deep post position. Let him know he needs to get many dunks in the D-League and that he could be on the trade block soon.

That is what I would do if I were a GM. I would not be in a hurry to give up on Seraphin. Sending him down would be one way to find out his agenda.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#308 » by No-Man » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:09 pm

Bazz could develop as a SF ala Pierce.

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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#309 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:59 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:IMO

1. Alex Len
2. Anthony Bennett
3. Cody Zeller
4. Marcus Smart
5. Ben McLemore
6. Le'Bryan Nash
7. Archie Goodwin

I am comfortable calling all those guys all-star talents. That seems like a lot but I think this is maybe a good draft.


I don't think Le'Bryan Nash is an all-star talent.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#310 » by AFM » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:03 pm

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/b ... 3738.story
Shabazz Muhammad helps lift UCLA past No. 7 Missouri
The freshman forward makes a go-ahead three-pointer with 1:01 left in overtime of a 97-94 victory, the Bruins' fifth in a row.
Freshman Shabazz Muhammad led the Bruins with 27 points, and his three-pointer with 1:01 left in the game put his team ahead for good, 95-93.

Big game for Shabazz. We need to draft this guy. His shooting is through the F'in roof right now, shooting 50% from 3...
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#311 » by nate33 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:04 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I bring up Sanders because for two years he was pretty obscure player with the Milwaukee Bucks. Sanders would play 10-15 minutes a game, give 3 or 4 points, 3 or rebounds, and a block here or there. Larry Sanders was nothing special. In fact, at the end of last season Seraphin looked like he might be something special. Seraphin is one year younger than Sanders. Unlike the Bucks, who drafted John Henson and traded for Epke Udoh who are both young guys themselves and not established players; the Wizards acquired Okafor and they started Booker this season ahead of Seraphin. Sanders established himself as ready to be perhaps the best shot blocker in the league this season. He's holding off Henson for now. Seraphin, however, has regressed. I think EG's roster has been the main reason.

CCJ, I continue to reject this reasoning. You have the cause and effect reversed. Seraphin hasn't regressed because others have taken his minutes. Others are taking his minutes because he has regressed. The same thing goes for Vesely. You keep looking at the coach for fault, when the fault lies with the players.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#312 » by AFM » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:06 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-QjLWTpP84[/youtube]
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#313 » by nate33 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:09 pm

AFM wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/basketball/la-sp-1229-ucla-missouri-20121229,0,2163738.story
Shabazz Muhammad helps lift UCLA past No. 7 Missouri
The freshman forward makes a go-ahead three-pointer with 1:01 left in overtime of a 97-94 victory, the Bruins' fifth in a row.
Freshman Shabazz Muhammad led the Bruins with 27 points, and his three-pointer with 1:01 left in the game put his team ahead for good, 95-93.

Big game for Shabazz. We need to draft this guy. His shooting is through the F'in roof right now, shooting 50% from 3...

This was my first time watching him. I came away pretty impressed. He has a James Harden type of sneaky athleticism rather than a more obvious explosiveness. But he did so despite having a somewhat lackluster build and a bit of body fat. With some more work in the weight room, he could be a monster.

Phil Pressey was incredible, though.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#314 » by pancakes3 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:13 pm

The pierce analogy holds water, imo.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#315 » by AFM » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Word. He looks more athletic in his HS videos. Maybe too many beers freshman year.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#316 » by FAH1223 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:19 pm

AFM wrote:Word. He looks more athletic in his HS videos. Maybe too many beers freshman year.


Freshman 15... can't stop it. Though he has lost some weight in recent weeks.

Like nate said, this kid lifting some weights will look like a monster... I'd definitely draft him if we could.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#317 » by princeofpalace » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:23 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:IMO

1. Alex Len
2. Anthony Bennett
3. Cody Zeller
4. Marcus Smart
5. Ben McLemore
6. Le'Bryan Nash
7. Archie Goodwin

I am comfortable calling all those guys all-star talents. That seems like a lot but I think this is maybe a good draft.


I don't think Le'Bryan Nash is an all-star talent.


Nor is Bennett.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#318 » by Dat2U » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:52 pm

I'm squeamish on forward tweeners as high lottery picks. Bennett is someone I'm just naturally going to be wary of.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#319 » by hands11 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:57 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:IMO

1. Alex Len
2. Anthony Bennett
3. Cody Zeller
4. Marcus Smart
5. Ben McLemore
6. Le'Bryan Nash
7. Archie Goodwin

I am comfortable calling all those guys all-star talents. That seems like a lot but I think this is maybe a good draft.


Just starting to learn some of these players. Ben McLemore. Now that an interesting dude.

McLemore sees most of his possessions as a transition finisher, spot-up shooter, and cutter

Nice.

Faried as a SG. Kid has a motor and attacks the basket and the defense. Someone to watch for sure. Looks like he needs to grow some more defensively. And maybe some character issue. Needs more investigation.

Looking over the draft, I like it so far. Deep with bigs. Mason Plumlee I liked last year. Looks like plenty of good talent through 15.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#320 » by Mr. Grundle » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:06 pm

Every time I watch Kentucky to try and get a look at Noel, Goodwin, and Poythress, the guy that jumps off the screen in Wille Cauley-Stein.

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