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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I

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Post#391 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:28 pm by bawizards

Can McLemore play small forward though?
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Post#392 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:32 pm by AFM

He's 6'4.5" with shoes on... probably not...
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Post#393 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:02 pm by gambitx777

WoW , guys we take BPA, i can't believe this is even a discussion. Not taking BPA is what lead to us getting Jan and Chris and not taking one of 12 other guys who are out playing them. Now i dont think there are any jans this high up in this draft but thats not the point. We can not longer afford to waste draft picks. On need and those always promising " if they can develop X and work on Y skill they could be" guys. we take BPA ! End of story! we need talent at all positions. screw NENE, and okariza we should trade them all any way.
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Post#394 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:57 am by willbcocks

Do we take BPA if he's a 6'4 two guard (Mclemore)? I don't watch college ball and I know nothing about prospects, but we can't draft a SG with a top 5 pick, and unless we're trading Wall we can't draft a PG.

I'm all for BPA, but if we plan to keep the player, it has to be BPA of all SF/PF/C. If we have a trade lined up, anything is fair game.
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Post#395 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:32 am by gambitx777

we dont know who the BPA will be yet. other than the box scores we have to look at the personality of the player. we just have to wait and see, i say once the picks are locked in, if we get the first and either charlote or the cavs get the 2ed we swap with them and try to steal their second first round pick. also with one of our seconds we should take a good hard look at ryan kelly. for real, the guy can play.
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Post#396 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:32 am by Ruzious

willbcocks wrote:Do we take BPA if he's a 6'4 two guard (Mclemore)? I don't watch college ball and I know nothing about prospects, but we can't draft a SG with a top 5 pick, and unless we're trading Wall we can't draft a PG.

I'm all for BPA, but if we plan to keep the player, it has to be BPA of all SF/PF/C. If we have a trade lined up, anything is fair game.

In general, take the BPA with the one caveat that if it's real close, don't take a guard.

My feeling right now on the draft is that there are 7 elite players - in order of quality:
1. Nerlens Noel - tremendous athlete and very fluid with the ball - in spite of the criticisms of his offensive game. He's not Anthony Davis - because he doesn't have Davis' amazing BBIQ, but he is a legit #1 #1. He has the frame to fill out - and strength should eventually be a plus - rather than the negative it is now. Easily the #1 pick in my view.
2. Trey Burke - I know - most have him around #20, but this guy really is worthy of the #2 pick. He is the total package as a PG, and he does whatever he wants to do - and he wants to do whatever his team needs to win. He's short, but so is Chris Paul - and he's got solid length and good strength. He's got that tremendous balance that Paul and Tony Parker have.
3. Marcus Smart - Totally different type of PG than Burke. He's more of a hybrid guard in the style that Dwayne Wade was early in his career. Physcially imposing - even intimidating - which is amazing for an 18 year old frosh. A pure leader - which really sticks out on the court. He's still working on his shot, but it's improving. He was supposedly more of a 2 in HS, so he's still learning the PG position, but in the NBA - he'll probably be a Wade-style hybrid/tweener in a good way.
4. Shabazz Muhammad - As pure a scorer as I've seen come to college in years. Looks almost insanely motivated to get the ball in the basket. Still does it in the framework of the offense - not bogging down the offense with 1 on 1 nonsense. But to move up in my rankings, he has to show he can do more than score. So far, I don't think he has.
5. Cody Zeller - Tremendous offensive center and rebounds adequately. Competes hard. He's stronger than given credit for and will be thicker than his brother. His lack of length is an issue.
6. Ben McLemore - Really good all-around 2 with no weaknesses. Has Beal's game but is a little more talented.
7. Alex Len - He's below Zeller, because he's thinner, and he's not as consistently assertive. Being assertive seems to come naturally for Zeller; I don't think it does with Len on a consistent basis.

Players that I like for the 2nd round that I don't think people here have mentioned (pardons if they have):
1. Phil Pressey - my favorite college player to watch. I think he'll slip because of his lack o size. Perfect as a backup PG to run the other team into submission for spurts o minutes. And a phenominal passer. His shooting is inconsistent, but he does have 3 point range. He will be a crowd favorite.
2. Victor Olapido - Zeller's teammate reminds of Aaron Afflalo - physically tough big 2 who does everything well.
3. Kelly Olynyk - late blooming 7 footer with tremendous scoring ability. But pretty much all other parts of his game need a lot of work.
4. Mike Muscalla - doesn't even come close to passing the eye test, but he's a 6'11 240 lber who's super-productive and super efficient at Bucknell. Hook him up with a top personal trainer and eventually you might have a David Lee type player.
5. Travis Releford - McLemore's teammate was strictly a defensive specialist his 1st 3 years. Finally, he got the green light to shoot this season, and he hasn't missed many. He's still not even listed as worthy of being drafted by any mocks I've seen, but he's a spot-up shooter and a 6'6 210 lb outstanding defender. He will play in the NBA.
6. Seth Curry - also not listed as worthy of being drafted, because he's a small skinny guard, but play him with a big PG iike Wall, and he could be very effective. He's got the shooting gene just like bro Steph.
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Post#397 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:49 am by gambitx777

i agree with you and like i said if we can slide from number one over all, down to 2 overall and pick up an extra pick i say we do so.

with our seconds and any late firsts that we pick up, i really like (in order to highest to lowst)
Kelly Olynyk
Ryan Kelly
Doug McDermott
Tim Hardaway Jr
C.J. Leslie
Sean Kilpatrick

I dont mind taking euros as long as they have spent time playing in college and learning how to play. if Jan had gone to college over here, he could possibly have been truly deserving of that 6th over all pick!
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Post#398 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:03 am by Dark Faze

It's pretty insane to say that Shabazz as a pure scorer needs to show something else without us picking him. Wat. We need a #1 scoring option in the worst way. How the eff do we pass on a dominant scoring guard/forward.
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Post#399 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:12 am by pancakes3

Are you (Dark Faze) entirely satisfied with our non-Nene frontcourt situation? I'm more comfortable with Beal/Webster/Crawford/Martin at the 2/3 than Nene/Okafor/Seraphin/Vesely at the 4/5 position. I'm all in on the Noel train.
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Post#400 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:16 am by Dark Faze

I'm almost never going to draft a PF/C unless he's a sure thing with a top 3 pick, and Noel isn't going to make an impact for a team until his second contract most likely.

This team is like 12th overall defensively right now. We are losing games because we don't have a single 20ppg scorer. We're simply unbelievably bad offensively.

Passing on a guy who scores as effortlessly as Shabazz would be a hilarious mistake, especially given the investments we've made at PF/C already. We could bet set with Wall/Beal/Shabazz and use free agency to fill our needs with Nene and Okafor expire. We've got a lot of flexibility there but none concerning scorers, which are impossible to acquire in this league.
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Post#401 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:38 am by nate33

Ruzious wrote:In general, take the BPA with the one caveat that if it's real close, don't take a guard.

My feeling right now on the draft is that there are 7 elite players - in order of quality:
1. Nerlens Noel - tremendous athlete and very fluid with the ball - in spite of the criticisms of his offensive game. He's not Anthony Davis - because he doesn't have Davis' amazing BBIQ, but he is a legit #1 #1. He has the frame to fill out - and strength should eventually be a plus - rather than the negative it is now. Easily the #1 pick in my view.
2. Trey Burke - I know - most have him around #20, but this guy really is worthy of the #2 pick. He is the total package as a PG, and he does whatever he wants to do - and he wants to do whatever his team needs to win. He's short, but so is Chris Paul - and he's got solid length and good strength. He's got that tremendous balance that Paul and Tony Parker have.
3. Marcus Smart - Totally different type of PG than Burke. He's more of a hybrid guard in the style that Dwayne Wade was early in his career. Physcially imposing - even intimidating - which is amazing for an 18 year old frosh. A pure leader - which really sticks out on the court. He's still working on his shot, but it's improving. He was supposedly more of a 2 in HS, so he's still learning the PG position, but in the NBA - he'll probably be a Wade-style hybrid/tweener in a good way.
4. Shabazz Muhammad - As pure a scorer as I've seen come to college in years. Looks almost insanely motivated to get the ball in the basket. Still does it in the framework of the offense - not bogging down the offense with 1 on 1 nonsense. But to move up in my rankings, he has to show he can do more than score. So far, I don't think he has.
5. Cody Zeller - Tremendous offensive center and rebounds adequately. Competes hard. He's stronger than given credit for and will be thicker than his brother. His lack of length is an issue.
6. Ben McLemore - Really good all-around 2 with no weaknesses. Has Beal's game but is a little more talented.
7. Alex Len - He's below Zeller, because he's thinner, and he's not as consistently assertive. Being assertive seems to come naturally for Zeller; I don't think it does with Len on a consistent basis.

Players that I like for the 2nd round that I don't think people here have mentioned (pardons if they have):
1. Phil Pressey - my favorite college player to watch. I think he'll slip because of his lack o size. Perfect as a backup PG to run the other team into submission for spurts o minutes. And a phenominal passer. His shooting is inconsistent, but he does have 3 point range. He will be a crowd favorite.
2. Victor Olapido - Zeller's teammate reminds of Aaron Afflalo - physically tough big 2 who does everything well.
3. Kelly Olynyk - late blooming 7 footer with tremendous scoring ability. But pretty much all other parts of his game need a lot of work.
4. Mike Muscalla - doesn't even come close to passing the eye test, but he's a 6'11 240 lber who's super-productive and super efficient at Bucknell. Hook him up with a top personal trainer and eventually you might have a David Lee type player.
5. Travis Releford - McLemore's teammate was strictly a defensive specialist his 1st 3 years. Finally, he got the green light to shoot this season, and he hasn't missed many. He's still not even listed as worthy of being drafted by any mocks I've seen, but he's a spot-up shooter and a 6'6 210 lb outstanding defender. He will play in the NBA.
6. Seth Curry - also not listed as worthy of being drafted, because he's a small skinny guard, but play him with a big PG iike Wall, and he could be very effective. He's got the shooting gene just like bro Steph.

Great post, Ruzious. I love it when you and Dat2U check in with your early draft breakdowns. It provides a great starting point for me to get a flavor of the draft.
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Post#402 Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread
Wed Jan 9, 2013 11:21 am by nate33

Now that it's time to actually get serious about draft discussions, I went ahead and changed the title of this thread and stickied it.
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Post#403 Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:00 pm by Ruzious

Thanks very much, nate. For us Wiz fans, that time of year comes early. To follow up, I'd add that while draft predictions are still very fluid, I think it's a great draft to have a top 7 pick and probably below average to have a pick from about 10-25 - which could change drastically. The top 4 players I mentioned I think have all-star to supastar potential and the next 3 have borderline all-star potential.

While I understand where Dark Faze is coming from - and a lot of people agree with him - players with his total package don't come along often. He's raw, but compare him to teammate Willy Cauley-Stein - who is maybe the most physically talented player in college. I can visualize Noel's game at both ends in the NBA in a team concept. I can see him excelling - not just with his athleticism but with his skills - extremely fluid driving to his left, great hands, great reactions to the ball, developing a 15 footer. I can't with Cauley-Stein - even though his physical talent is off the charts. In other words, there's raw with outstanding development in sight, and there's Javale McGee as a rookie raw. Noel is the former.
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Post#404 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:35 pm by JAR69

Ruzious wrote:2. Victor Olapido - Zeller's teammate reminds of Aaron Afflalo - physically tough big 2 who does everything well.


I've been meaning to mention Oladipo as a possible second rounder. Oladipo has an NBA body, nice explosiveness, decent BBIQ, is a very tough defender, and has seriously improved his outside shooting. I was wondering what YODA says about him.
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Post#405 Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:42 pm by pancakes3

I'm not knocking Shabazz but he's not a can't-miss product. The two red flags of low assists and low steals suggest that he's a bit of an iso-gunner and that he's not much of a hustler. He's a lot closer to OJ Mayo than Kobe Bryant (maybe not even as good as Mayo).

Noel on the other hand is very impressive. He's not a pure scorer but he does everything that makes scoring easier for everyone else. He's active, moves without the ball, loves defense, runs the floor, pass out of (rare) double teams, and finish around the rim. I'd say Noel is as can't miss a product as it gets though the ceiling isn't as high as... Shaq's...
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Post#406 Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!!
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:22 pm by DCsOwn

Dark Faze wrote:I'm almost never going to draft a PF/C unless he's a sure thing with a top 3 pick, and Noel isn't going to make an impact for a team until his second contract most likely.

This team is like 12th overall defensively right now. We are losing games because we don't have a single 20ppg scorer. We're simply unbelievably bad offensively.

Passing on a guy who scores as effortlessly as Shabazz would be a hilarious mistake, especially given the investments we've made at PF/C already. We could bet set with Wall/Beal/Shabazz and use free agency to fill our needs with Nene and Okafor expire. We've got a lot of flexibility there but none concerning scorers, which are impossible to acquire in this league.


I agree with this almost exactly. We need an assertive, scoring three in the worst way considering the possibility that Wall might never develop into a significant, scoring asset in the half-court and Beal can too often be a bit of a flow player and I'm not exactly sure he'll grow into being a true, first option for a competent offensive team at this level. My only point of divergence with you is that I'd take Noel with a top 3 pick if Shabazz is off the board without hesitation. I think Noel is going to be a dominant defensive presence in the NBA when he physically matures, and that type of presence would be a solid consolation prize should we miss out on Shabazz, especially when measured against the rest of the prospects projected to be available this year.
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Post#407 Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:30 pm by Dark Faze

Yea, I clearly take Noel if Bazz is off the board. He wont add wins but maybe we're bad enough the next year to have a shot at Jabari or Wiggins.
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Post#408 Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:44 pm by Dark Faze

pancakes3 wrote:I'm not knocking Shabazz but he's not a can't-miss product. The two red flags of low assists and low steals suggest that he's a bit of an iso-gunner and that he's not much of a hustler. He's a lot closer to OJ Mayo than Kobe Bryant (maybe not even as good as Mayo).

Noel on the other hand is very impressive. He's not a pure scorer but he does everything that makes scoring easier for everyone else. He's active, moves without the ball, loves defense, runs the floor, pass out of (rare) double teams, and finish around the rim. I'd say Noel is as can't miss a product as it gets though the ceiling isn't as high as... Shaq's...


Lol running the floor and passing the ball are not skills I need from a guy right now. Jan Vesely had those as reasons to draft him as well. Trying hard, having a motor = irrelevant. Only one thing matters, and that's skills translating to the next level. Anthony Davis is twice the player that Nerlens is and he's struggling to impact games defensively right now. Nerlens is going to be a non-factor offensively and his defense won't be at the level it is now.

The thing with Shabazz is that there are pure scorers and there are pure scorers. Shabazz is closer to Harden than he is to Kevin Martin, and we absolutely need a 1st option offensively or we're going no where.
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Post#409 Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:19 pm by Nivek

Motor is not irrelevant. See Faried, Kenneth. Motor without skill, aptitude, hoops IQ -- that's irrelevant.

Not a commentary on Shabazz.
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Post#410 Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:28 pm by miller31time

I'm with the crowd who would take Muhammed 1st without giving it a 2nd thought.

His scoring will certainly translate to the NBA and he looks to have the poise and potential to make it big. Noel is 2nd in my book. He won't make an immediately positive impact but 2-3 years down the line, he should be mature enough to become an All-Star caliber player.
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