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Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth

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Post#136 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:26 am by omegatronic3

truwizfan4evr wrote:With Ernie a gm there's no hope unless we get a top 5 draft pick and get Noel /Cody or someone.


when a team is this bad everyone deserves the axe..starting with EG..he should not be allowed to rob us of another draft..and yes I say give Cassell the job. At this point I dont think Ive ever seen a worse NBA team and Ive seen some bad ones. This team without Wall and Nene is laughable. Even with those two we suck
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Post#137 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:32 am by miller31time

I think this franchise needs to change absolutely everything. Bring a fresh start to D.C.

I'm talking about changing the name back to Bullets (it's what everyone and their mother wants, anyway), hire a competent GM, hire either a young, up-and-coming coach or one with a good track record (especially in player development), and make what ever player transactions the new GM sees fit (hopefully, that would involve acquiring expiring contracts for Okafor, Ariza and even Nene). Tank for one more season and get a top-3 pick.

Go into next year as the friggin Washington Bullets with Wall, Beal and Noel/Muhammed as our core three players, attempt to make a splash in the free agent market if the price is reasonable and the fit makes sense.

Just get out of this rut because this cannot continue.
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Post#138 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:41 am by DMVleGeND

Jay81 wrote:
DMVleGeND wrote:
keynote wrote:I had hoped that Beal could play above the rim a bit more, a la Eric Gordon. I haven't seen much of that yet, but I don't know whether that's due to a lack of explosiveness, or a lack of confidence. I'm hoping it's the latter, and that he'll go to the rack high and hard once he gets comfortable.


Eric Gordon was always a better athlete than Beal in terms of quickness and explosiveness. Beal is more of a below the rim player.


Eric Gordon dosent play and makes the Max. Id take beal over that in a heartbeat


Minus the injuries, Eric Gordon is a better player and has more potential than Beal IMO regardless of whether he's worth the max.
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Post#139 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:42 am by AFM

Matt007b wrote:I come in peace..of course we barely win this ugly game..I thought we were going to lose.

I think you guys have a good team with some talent (love the uniforms) once Wall comes back you'll be able to create more but.. I didn't really see much of a system..above all I think that needs fixing (but what do I know..?)

I was pretty impressed by Jan Vesely, guys got talent - keeper..stat wise it doesn't look like that but I was impressed.. Okafor kept going after the ball (only guy that was rebounding well..)...surprised you let Martin shoot like that.. Jazz fans would be screaming for him to be benched if he was on our team.

If you had a better system.. ...maybe yank some players that are not playing team ball I think you guys would be much better and when your players come back from injury I'm sure you will... sorry for Matt Harping's paper bag comment.. :roll:


Thanks for stopping by and offering your take. Sometimes a fresh look is needed.
On Ves: Most people on this board consider him to be a bust. I know I do. Tonight he looked pretty damn good, yes, but he was essentially benched in the 2nd half. Problem is, dude has no offensive skills. He's shooting 11% from the FT line this year. So, yeah. His game is pretty limited. But in the 1st quarter tonight he was wreaking all kinds of havoc. This was probably the best game he has had, at least this year.
On Cartier Martin: Martin didn't really get any playing time until the previous game when he came in and hit 4 3 pointers in a row. It was pretty electrifying, raising the question "why is he the last person off the bench? He's obviously an amazing shooter!!" Well, I think tonight he showed why. Very streaky shooter.
You guys have a good team. Jefferson is a beast. He could not be stopped tonight in the 2nd half.
I'd like to tell myself that with Wall and Nene healthy we would have won this game based on how close it was the first 3 quarters. But that's just speculation at this point.
Thanks for your post.
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Post#140 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:44 am by AFM

miller31time wrote:I think this franchise needs to change absolutely everything. Bring a fresh start to D.C.

I'm talking about changing the name back to Bullets (it's what everyone and their mother wants, anyway), hire a competent GM, hire either a young, up-and-coming coach or one with a good track record (especially in player development), and make what ever player transactions the new GM sees fit (hopefully, that would involve acquiring expiring contracts for Okafor, Ariza and even Nene). Tank for one more season and get a top-3 pick.

Go into next year as the friggin Washington Bullets with Wall, Beal and Noel/Muhammed as our core three players, attempt to make a splash in the free agent market if the price is reasonable and the fit makes sense.

Just get out of this rut because this cannot continue.

Yes, yes, and yes.
But we know that won't happen.

Don't you know people kill eachother with guns because we call ourselves the Bullets?
Also, Native Americans are very upset about the Washington Redskins.
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Post#141 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:49 am by pineappleheadindc

miller31time wrote:I think this franchise needs to change absolutely everything. Bring a fresh start to D.C.

I'm talking about changing the name back to Bullets (it's what everyone and their mother wants, anyway), hire a competent GM, hire either a young, up-and-coming coach or one with a good track record (especially in player development), and make what ever player transactions the new GM sees fit (hopefully, that would involve acquiring expiring contracts for Okafor, Ariza and even Nene). Tank for one more season and get a top-3 pick.

Go into next year as the friggin Washington Bullets with Wall, Beal and Noel/Muhammed as our core three players, attempt to make a splash in the free agent market if the price is reasonable and the fit makes sense.

Just get out of this rut because this cannot continue.


You'd think someone who's a big businessman knows when to cut his losses. I don't understand Ted at all.
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Post#142 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:50 am by montestewart

Way to pull the rug out from under the Bullets argument.
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Post#143 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:02 am by miller31time

pineappleheadindc wrote:
miller31time wrote:I think this franchise needs to change absolutely everything. Bring a fresh start to D.C.

I'm talking about changing the name back to Bullets (it's what everyone and their mother wants, anyway), hire a competent GM, hire either a young, up-and-coming coach or one with a good track record (especially in player development), and make what ever player transactions the new GM sees fit (hopefully, that would involve acquiring expiring contracts for Okafor, Ariza and even Nene). Tank for one more season and get a top-3 pick.

Go into next year as the friggin Washington Bullets with Wall, Beal and Noel/Muhammed as our core three players, attempt to make a splash in the free agent market if the price is reasonable and the fit makes sense.

Just get out of this rut because this cannot continue.


You'd think someone who's a big businessman knows when to cut his losses. I don't understand Ted at all.


I think part of what makes Ted so likable is part of what has made his tenure as Wizards owner so terrible -- he puts too much trust in those around him and will always be willing to hear what their reasoning is for everything that's gone wrong.

Ted seems like a really nice guy and I could very easily see a PR tactician like Ernie say all the right things and weasel his way into a contract extension when any other businessman would have given him the axe long ago.
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Post#144 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:22 am by truwizfan4evr

miller31time wrote:
pineappleheadindc wrote:
miller31time wrote:I think this franchise needs to change absolutely everything. Bring a fresh start to D.C.

I'm talking about changing the name back to Bullets (it's what everyone and their mother wants, anyway), hire a competent GM, hire either a young, up-and-coming coach or one with a good track record (especially in player development), and make what ever player transactions the new GM sees fit (hopefully, that would involve acquiring expiring contracts for Okafor, Ariza and even Nene). Tank for one more season and get a top-3 pick.

Go into next year as the friggin Washington Bullets with Wall, Beal and Noel/Muhammed as our core three players, attempt to make a splash in the free agent market if the price is reasonable and the fit makes sense.

Just get out of this rut because this cannot continue.


You'd think someone who's a big businessman knows when to cut his losses. I don't understand Ted at all.


I think part of what makes Ted so likable is part of what has made his tenure as Wizards owner so terrible -- he puts too much trust in those around him and will always be willing to hear what their reasoning is for everything that's gone wrong.

Ted seems like a really nice guy and I could very easily see a PR tactician like Ernie say all the right things and weasel his way into a contract extension when any other businessman would have given him the axe long ago.

I agree with you post 100%
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Post#145 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:22 am by hands11

dandridge 10 wrote:Yeah, the rotations tonight were mind-boggling. Don't know why Webster got no minutes and Beal was limited to 13. I also don't know why Witt sat Vesely in the second half as he was basically having his best game of the year. Although I thought the starting line-up was going to suck tonight, it was the best unit that we had out there tonight. I don't know why Witt did not go back to it at the end. Instead, he stuck with Seraphin who was getting abused on the boards (He had 0 rebounds tonight) and Singleton, who didn't even play until the 4th quarter. It was just bizarre.

However, the bottom line is that this team sucks because of Ernie. It cracks me up when Glenn Consor talks about this team going cold offensively. No, a team goes "cold" once in a while. When a team goes "cold" EVERY night, it is because the team lacks shooters and scorers. The Wiz are not going cold,they are just an offensively inept team, period and Ernie built the team that way.


Yes it was truly bizarre. Ves was having a good game. Crawford has been their best PG since Wall got injured and it is taking forever for them to realize it.

Price puts up decent numbers sometimes but he sucks leading the team. He is the player I least like on the team. It kills me that he is getting so many minutes. So far, he looks like he is better used as a small SG who can help handle the ball some. That is more his mind set then PG.

They should be starting Crawford at PG which is the biggest mistake. He is playing very solid this year and he is their best ball handler, shot creator, and driver. He makes his FTA. Put the ball in his hands, find the hot hand at SG between Beal, Martin and Webster. Honestly, I have no problem with them not starting Beal right now. Kid has a lot of learn. He defends well. He always seems to be focused on that part of his game. Bring him off the bench and let him focus on driving more then shooting from the outside. Get him to the line. We need more FTAs.

Trevor A has been a pleasant surprise. The kid is long. Defends well and is decent at everything else like passing, shooting, fast break. Not great at any of those things be when coupled with his defense, he has proven he should be the starting SF.

Ves should be the starting PF. He is active, tall and has good basketball IQ. And he has upside so give him the burn and let him develop.

Okafor is showing signs of slowing down but he is still solid. If your not leaning on him to be an offensive threat, he can score pretty well when he lets the game come to him.

Booker is a good energy rebounder when he isn't trying to score to much.
Singleton can be useful but he has to get in the flow earlier. You can just bring him in late in the forth. He isn't that kind of player.

My starting line up and rotation would probably be

Crawford/Livingston
Webster/Beal/Price
Trevor A/Martin
Ves/Singleton/Booker
Okafor/Seraphin/Barron

If Kevin is stinking up the joint, bring in Barron. I mean how does a 6-9 275 athetic kid get zero rebounds and zero FTAs. He is playing like a big Psy.

If Martin is clanking, move Webster to SF or give Booker a look there.

Livingston
Beal
Webster
Singleton or Booker
Serpahin or Barron

Randy is making this much harder then it needs to be. Why he insists on playing Price 31 minutes is baffling.
And with Martin sinking the place up tonight, why didn't he try Webster at SG. Martin was shooting the ball short all night. After he was 0-5 from 3 land, sit his ass down. Its not his night.

Randy coached like an idiot. These guy have been in most the games. At what point is it not simply the players but the combination he has our there and how he is running the offense.
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Post#146 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:04 am by DANNYLANDOVER

Jay81 wrote:is Harrison barnes better than Bradley Beal?

Yes. I really think the board fell into group think with Beal. Barnes was more productive than Beal in college, but as usual we overrate potential, because Beal is 19 and has a nice looking jumper. I think Beal will be a good player, but I would have picked Drummond or Barnes over him.
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Post#147 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:13 am by AFM

Danny, my fears about Beal thus far are coming true. In college he DID NOT SHOOT WELL, But his jumper is picture perfect as far as form goes, so we just assumed his poor shooting was an aberration. Unfortunately his FG% thus far has only solidified my concern. It's pretty but it doesn't go in.
I'm going to wait until the end of the year to give a final judgement, but thus far he has not proven to be the knockdown shooter he was billed to be. Even worse, he can't get to the rack, which is a shame since he is an excellent FT shooter. (20 of 21?)
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Post#148 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:32 am by closg00

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
Jay81 wrote:is Harrison barnes better than Bradley Beal?

Yes. I really think the board fell into group think with Beal. Barnes was more productive than Beal in college, but as usual we overrate potential, because Beal is 19 and has a nice looking jumper. I think Beal will be a good player, but I would have picked Drummond or Barnes over him.


There was a board group-think pre-draft in-part because the team so desperately needed a quality offensive player.
There was also group-think against non-Beal players. There were a few guys here who liked Barnes, perhaps one Drummond booster, and a few who would have considered Lamb.
Nene: "If you want to go for the gold, the championship, make the team better, you need to think forward. I don’t like to talk about .500.”
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Post#149 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:59 am by payitforward

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
Jay81 wrote:is Harrison barnes better than Bradley Beal?

Yes. I really think the board fell into group think with Beal. Barnes was more productive than Beal in college, but as usual we overrate potential, because Beal is 19 and has a nice looking jumper. I think Beal will be a good player, but I would have picked Drummond or Barnes over him.

Barnes was certainly not more productive than Beal in college. Moreover, he didn't improve from freshman to sophomore year. Yes, he had a good game the other night. One game. No, that's no reason to think he's "better" than Bradley Beal. Sullinger had an excellent night for the Celts in their last game. Maybe we should have picked him at #3?? Anthony Davis had an off-night the other day; is he a bust?

Did you call for Drummond in the run-up to the draft? If so, then so far he's making that look smart. So far, overall, he's right behind Davis in productivity.
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Post#150 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:20 am by payitforward

hands11 wrote:Randy is making this much harder then it needs to be. Why he insists on playing Price 31 minutes is baffling.
And with Martin sinking the place up tonight, why didn't he try Webster at SG. Martin was shooting the ball short all night. After he was 0-5 from 3 land, sit his ass down. Its not his night.

Randy coached like an idiot. These guy have been in most the games. At what point is it not simply the players but the combination he has our there and how he is running the offense.

At no point, Hands. We don't have enough players, nor productive enough players, to win NBA games. The idea that we lost last night because we didn't play Webster is kind of silly. We also lost when we did play Webster.

Price was one of our best performers last night -- I'm no fan of his, but you picked an odd night to be questioning his minutes. OTOH, Crawford, tho he had 8 assists and didn't turn it over much and went 5-5 from the line, didn't really contribute overall. He went 7-18 and in 31 minutes he had only 1 rebound.

Games are won by TS% and ball control. The less you get to the line, the lower your TS%, and we don't get to the line. As to ball control, we are getting out-rebounded pretty regularly.

Last night, Okafor and Ariza did what was expected of them by Ernie. If Nene had been playing, I imagine we'd have won the game. It would have been an example of achieving the kind of barely mediocre level Ernie was aiming for.

However painful, it'd be better to lose until Ernie is finally fired than to have his crappy idea prove out. In any case, that's what's happening and will continue to happen.
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Post#151 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:25 am by hands11

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
Jay81 wrote:is Harrison barnes better than Bradley Beal?

Yes. I really think the board fell into group think with Beal. Barnes was more productive than Beal in college, but as usual we overrate potential, because Beal is 19 and has a nice looking jumper. I think Beal will be a good player, but I would have picked Drummond or Barnes over him.


If Beal does end up being a bust, then God help us.

But yeah, it would be nice to draft players that are productive and not just potential.

The thing with potential type players is why draft them when you can usually pick them up latter. They rarely stay on the team that drafted them.

And draft players that have high motors that play the game fearlessly. For all the board hate, Crawford does fit that description. Wall also fits that description. But what you really want are players that have those two think plus a defined skill that you need such as shooting or rebounding. When you use that criteria, that when players like Farried, Crowder, and Lillard start to stand out.
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Post#152 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:16 am by tontoz

i knew they would struggle without Wall and Nene but this is getting ridiculous.
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Post#153 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:44 am by hands11

payitforward wrote:
hands11 wrote:Randy is making this much harder then it needs to be. Why he insists on playing Price 31 minutes is baffling.
And with Martin sinking the place up tonight, why didn't he try Webster at SG. Martin was shooting the ball short all night. After he was 0-5 from 3 land, sit his ass down. Its not his night.

Randy coached like an idiot. These guy have been in most the games. At what point is it not simply the players but the combination he has our there and how he is running the offense.

At no point, Hands. We don't have enough players, nor productive enough players, to win NBA games. The idea that we lost last night because we didn't play Webster is kind of silly. We also lost when we did play Webster.

Price was one of our best performers last night -- I'm no fan of his, but you picked an odd night to be questioning his minutes. OTOH, Crawford, tho he had 8 assists and didn't turn it over much and went 5-5 from the line, didn't really contribute overall. He went 7-18 and in 31 minutes he had only 1 rebound.

Games are won by TS% and ball control. The less you get to the line, the lower your TS%, and we don't get to the line. As to ball control, we are getting out-rebounded pretty regularly.

Last night, Okafor and Ariza did what was expected of them by Ernie. If Nene had been playing, I imagine we'd have won the game. It would have been an example of achieving the kind of barely mediocre level Ernie was aiming for.

However painful, it'd be better to lose until Ernie is finally fired than to have his crappy idea prove out. In any case, that's what's happening and will continue to happen.


While adding Wall and Nene would dramatically change this picture, we don't have them right now and line ups do matter. Will they matter enough to win any one of these games. I can't prove that since it didn't happen but I can see what works and doesn't and I can see the other options available. They have been in most of these games and they had the players available to win at least 40% of them. Their defense is good. That is the one bright spot. That is also the least surprising since the team was mostly build to be good defensively to surround the scoring of Wall and Nene. What they need is offense until they return, getting to the line and someone with the personality and skills to lead them when the offense grinds to a halt. And they need a SG that can hit an open shot and who can drive and get fouled.

I and other could see they needed to add Livingston because Price and Pargo were not enough to lead the team at PG. I could see they needed to play Crawford there more which they have finally started to do and when they do, the team is more productive. Why, because he has all those qualities. He can drive, create, score, get to the line ( more so if the refs would actually call half of fouls that happen to him ) and the personality to lead them. They should have made him the starting PG from game 1 with Wall out. Price should have been backing him up and now that they have Livingston, Price shouldn't even be an option at PG anymore.

I have no problem at all stepping out and saying what I did about Price even though his numbers looked 'ok".
His numbers don't tell the whole story. 2 of his shots and 5 of his 8 pts were scored while playing off the ball with Crawford running the PG. He was playing the SG on offense and defending PG on defense. So is that the player I want at SG ? Personally, I don't have a problem with him playing there some but do it with clarity. He is just one of a group that includes Beal, Martin and Webster. And as I said before, I want that player to be able to hit an open shot, drive and get to the line. He fits one of those. He can hit an open shot. And like I said, 5 of his pts came that way. They should have road that while he was feeling it. But Utah called a time out and I'm not even sure he was in the line up when they came back. If he was, I don't remember seeing them go back to that.

But in order of who I want at SG, I would say Beal and Webster fit the bill the most. Beal is a rookie so I have no problem bringing him off the bench. I also have no problem starting him. But if you aren't starting him, then Webster should be the SG. Price should be back there with Martin. He is a SG who has some handles, not a PG. And while his assists are up this year, he doesn't lead a team. He just doesn't have that nor the personality that the team follows. At best he is Crawford two years ago with less offense. Well we have Crawford two years later who seems to have learned better shot selection. There is no need to play Price at PG. Specially now that they have Livingston. So just looking at what Randy did at SG, how does Webster get zero minutes on a night that Martin is 0-7 from 3 land except of one junk time made 3 with 30 second left in the game.

Beal was off again. Martin was clanking. That leaves two options at SG. Price or Webster and Webster got zero minutes there. That in my view was stupid. The one part of Websters game that is most reliable is his ability to hit and open shot with his feet set. And he has the body and will to drive. And he is 6-7, not 6-1.

Trevor A had a very productive game and played 34 minutes. He could have played more. There was no reason to bring in C Singleton for the 4th quarter after not playing him all game. He came and and got two quick fouls and clobbered on the boards.

Ves also was very active and played well but he was sitting on the bench to close the game. That made no sense. Ves played only 22 minutes. He had 5 rebounds and tipped out a number of other rebounds and had two blocked shots. He was actually scrapping pretty good under the basket. The kid is long and he was playing with good energy. He was +11 which was best on the team.

Oakfor had 14 rebounds. Clearly he needed to be in the game. Specially since Kevin played like ass again. Zero rebounds for Kevin. Kid of starting to make me think he is a soft ass punk. Come on Kevin. You are 275 and young. Play like it.

So yeah, having Wall and Nene would have a big different but so does lining up what you have better in the mean time. The closing line ups made no sense. Randy coached like ass. Price is their third best PG and should be used behind Beal and Webster at the same level as Martin as a SG. Not a starter. Thats line ups and last I checked, who is on the floor and how they are used is a big part of basketball. Specially in close games.

This lose and a few other I can count are Randy failures and that disappoints me since I was a big Randy fan and called for his getting this extension. So far Randy seems to be a good practice development coach, but not a great game time coach. I guess that makes some sense since he has mostly been an assistant. I hope he develops his game time coaching skills better.
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Post#154 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:07 pm by 80sballboy

Randy has no options. The entire team is garbage. Stay with Vesely? He can't rebound defensively save to tipping the ball. Webster I don't get but everybody loves Cartie and then he can't make a shot. Everybody said make lineup changes so he did. Beal off the bench was the right move. He's not ready to start but he should have played more than 13 minutes. Starting Ves over the terrible Booker was the right move on because of his length. I don't know what has happened to Singleton at the 4. I thought he would be ok, but he's just a tweener. Seraphin is playing like a rookie and his lack of rebounding shows lack of heart on that side of the floor.

He's no Red Auerbach but Red couldn't have done anything with this joke of a team. I knew we would be terrible but never thought we'd miss Nene and John this bad. And there's no way they are good enough to make up a team that will be 2-17 when they return (hopefully).
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Post#155 Re: Wizards vs Utah Sat 7PM @ the Booth
Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:08 pm by jivelikenice

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
Jay81 wrote:is Harrison barnes better than Bradley Beal?

Yes. I really think the board fell into group think with Beal. Barnes was more productive than Beal in college, but as usual we overrate potential, because Beal is 19 and has a nice looking jumper. I think Beal will be a good player, but I would have picked Drummond or Barnes over him.


100%. The concerns about Beak were the following:
1. Height
2. Ability to attack off the dribble
3. His actual shooting % in college
4. Aggressiveness

All of these concerns have been validated. His height is affecting his ability to get off shots. He's no effective driving to the hoop. He has a nice looking shot but it doesn't translate to a high fg% because he just plain misses or doesn't get an easy shots. He's tentative....None of this should be a surprise. We convinced ourselves he was better than he was and blamed his deficiencies on him being a freshman. If he had gone back to college like Perry Jones did, the questions would have arose...He benefited from being young and the sample size not being big enough.....
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