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Season Wins Losses Win % Wins Losses Win % Wins Losses Win %
2013-2014 44 38 .537 33 19 .635 10 6 .625
2012-2013 29 53 .354 15 37 .288 5 11 .313
2011-2012 20 46 .303 16 32 .333 7 7 .500
2010-2011 23 59 .280 16 36 .308 3 13 .188
2009-2010 26 56 .317 18 34 .346 3 13 .188

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Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

Moderators: WizStorm, miller31time, nate33, LyricalRico

Is Jan Vesely a Bust?

Yes, I've seen enough, Jan Vesely is a Bust for a 6th pick
118
75%
No, let's wait to see how he plays with JW and Nene
39
25%
 
Total votes : 157

Post#1 Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 10:50 am by closg00

Jan Vesely is the sole lottery bust of the 2011 NBA draft.
http://www.nba.com/draft/2011/


There have been a few disappointments (Jimmer), but no flat-out busts like Jan. The Wizards would be better-off with any of the other players selected after Jan in the lottery including Jimmer. Perhaps Kevin can confirm this, the caveat being Marcus Morris who only recently has become part of the Rocket rotation.
Nene: "If you want to go for the gold, the championship, make the team better, you need to think forward. I don’t like to talk about .500.”
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Post#2 Re: OFFICIAL: Jan Vesely Is A Bust Thread
Sat Dec 1, 2012 11:12 am by AFM

He a bust he a bust
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Post#3 Re: OFFICIAL: Jan Vesely Is A Bust Thread
Sat Dec 1, 2012 11:16 am by blazinskillz

He's a bust. I hope he could prove me wrong but nothing about him displays that me night be half worthy of his draft selection. He hustles a lot yeah, but so does Edward Najera. He's not a rebounder, He's not a shot Blocker, he's not a floor general and he's defintely not a shooter. He's the worse kind of tweener there is. He runs the floor well and has instincts, he even plays good pick and roll D....maybe he would of been better as a late first round pick. I assume he'll turn into a better shooter, but I also assume he'll be back in Europe in < than 4 years. Hope I'm wrong on the latter.
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Post#4 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 11:20 am by nate33

I tweaked the title, closg00.
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Post#5 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 11:53 am by truwizfan4evr

We passes up on Jimmy and Klay ? Ernie is a horrible gm how is Jan even in the lottery he just a hustle player in a top 5 draft is insane bad scouting on Washington part.
You Shouldn't Play For Money, But You Should Play Because You Have A Passion For It -- Bradley Beal
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Post#6 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 11:55 am by WizarDynasty

Players are trained to follow instructions, they are not trained on how to diagnose and fixed their weaknesses. Just because a player has a high work ethic doesn't mean they have the a great ability to "figure out what they should be doing each day to improve their biggest weaknesses".

Vesely is not a creative player. anyone who thinks that Vesely has been trained to diagnose what his major weaknesses are and what exactly he needs to do each day to fix them is beyond belief. Vesely has been trained in europe and russia to be a machine and follow instructions, not to contemplate unique drills to improve his weaknesses.

the wizards, a longstanding professional organization has to understand the mental weaknesses of a draft prospect. Draft prospects are young men trained to follow orders from coaches all their lifes. Vesely is not a street baller who has played unorganized ball all his life and was able to practice many freedoms in a semi setting like a carmelo anthony or a lebron James. Vesely played a set role and if ever decided for a second to break outside of what roles his coaches assigned for him, he was benched. Wizards most know the mental walls that exist inside of Vesely upbringing and design a structure setting that strictly guides him into teh direction we want. I personally would like to see Vesely transform into the european blake griffin but that would entail vesely having the "creativity" to "envision himself with dribbling skills".

Vesely has the motor coordination to be a great dribbler and explosiveness but he doesn't have the mental flexibility to imagine himself with dribbling skills. Why because he is a product of a strict coaching environment that didnt enocourage free expression on the basketball court. The wizards have to force Vesely to do something unnatural. Wizards have to "trick Vesely into believing that he can become an expert dribbler". Once Vesely starts to believe in what we know he is capable, that's when the Wizard will begin to see a return on their investment. It all starts with breaking the walls that coaches in russia have established that keep Vesely from being "creative". teh wizards hav to be the creative part of Vesely's mind until Vesely can actually see that he really does have enormous offensive potential.
Vesely mind will never believe that he himself can be unbelievable offensive player until he actually see himself on Film handlin the ball expertly on the perimeter with defensive pressure.
The wizards and leonsis have to understand VEsely's mental weaknesses and how to overcome them. His weaknesses are lack of confidence and lack of knowledge on how to build his dribbling skills.

Wizards expert dribbler has to see Vesely in a way that VEsely at this moment in time, can't see himself. In other words, we need an expert that can envision what Vesely could be with a vastly improved skills because Vesely is incapable of seeing himself in this light.
Same issue goes for Beal.
The quicker Leonsis puts in place and elite ball handling coach, teh quicker his team can rapidly improve and start drawing fouls offensively during crunch time. His team is horrible at handling the ball, and by extension horrible at drawing fouls. and his young players don't show significant improvements in ball handling skills game to game which is a huge indication that the right personnel managers don't exist on the wizards.


Just posting what i put early with beal which is think applies here too. It's the organizations job to ensure Beal becomes a elite ball handler so we can trade for high draft picks if we can't resign him. Plain and simple.
Same with Vesely.

NOt having a system in place to ensure that player are tranforming into experts, only drops the value of Wizard assets. You improve an player's value with the hope of selling it for more than you paid. the problem with the wizards organization is that they have unqualified "upgraders" that oversee that our unfinished draft products transforms into a finished marketable product in a quick turn around time. We drafted the world class sports cars with missing pieces but don't have a clue how install the missing pieces for the project sports cars to compete and win. We expect for the projects to figure it out on their own what pieces they are missing. if the project sports cars could do that on their own, they would have done so already and been drafted in a higher slot.
YOu should have never bidded on an unfinished work if didnt have the tools to finish it and get a higher resale value.
Valuable lesson for leonsis. Don't expect projects to figure out what their weaknesses are on their own if they have a great work ethic because they would have already fixed the problem on their own. Don't bring a generalist to fix a specialized problem on a project sports car. A family doctor isn't going to know how to perform heart surgery.
We have project sports cars with specialized problems and our projects aren't qualified to diagnose and fix their own problems.
The problem with Grunfeldian culture is that it believes that a hardworker should be also be an expert at diagnosing what his basketball weaknesses are and also knowing the expert solution on how to fix. Hardwork does not fix a specialized problem. Players are not trained to figure out what they are doing wrong. Players are not trained to figure out if they have improper handspeed while dribbling the ball. they are trained mainly to follow instructions.
Wizard culture has to factor these inherent limitation into the new leonsis culture so that the turn around time is quicker. Wizards front office should be highly trained at the areas that projects lack wisdom. Wizard front office should be the equivalent of heart surgeon ---where as a player only can describe a sympton of his chest hurting. Front office should figuratively be able to open the chess and fix the value in the heart. Then the patient or player gets up from the table and is able to function better after the surgery not knowing at all what the heart surgeon did to his heart except he is now healthy versus being sick.
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Post#7 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 11:55 am by The Consiglieri

A major bummer. I'd like to think EG wouldn't have been this stupid if we hadn't been completely hosed in the lottery, but I seriously doubt it. Our board should have read Irving, Valunciunas, Kanter etc, but something tells me he had Vesely at the top of the board, since he was hot n heavy for him since '09-'10. Ridiculous, and tragic to think if Vesely had just declared for '10, we wouldn't have wasted two of our first three blue chip lottery picks of the rebuild. That, as much as anything, is a reason behind why we suck. When you can't squeeze any elite talent out of three straight bottom four finishes save John Wall, you suck.
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Post#8 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 11:57 am by The Consiglieri

and for the record, I completely own that my desire was a trade up for Kantner or Valunciunas, and barring that, a trade down for Kawhai, or I was fine with Vesely. I just never realized it was possible that Vesely could be anywhere near this bad. So I definitely should own some stupidity here. But what's EG's excuse?
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Post#9 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:10 pm by truwizfan4evr

This is so depressing for us we wasted are 6 pick for a Hustle player. The worst thing about it Jan has little to none trade value. We would get nothing good for him so were basically stuck with this bust to he's a free agent. :(
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Post#10 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:13 pm by MikeTheKid

We could've drafted:

Jimmer
Klay
Alec Burks
The Morris twins
KAWHI
Vucevic
Shumpert
Tobias Harris
FARIED
MARSHON
N. Cole
Jimmy Butler

And EG drafted Ves, need I say more
MikeTheKid wrote:No disrespect to Beal when I say this but Im starting to wish our 09-12 drafts should've went Curry, DMC, Klay/Kawhi, Drummond.

Dammit why are we cursed with EG!!!
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Post#11 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:17 pm by closg00

Link back to our pre-draft poll.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1114842

Even Donatas ,who was unpopular on the board back-then, would have been a better pick, or drafting Vucevic high would have been preferable if Ernie had to have a Euro. We pretty-much ended up with a worst-case scenario, a basketball player with few NBA skills.
Nene: "If you want to go for the gold, the championship, make the team better, you need to think forward. I don’t like to talk about .500.”
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Post#12 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:20 pm by closg00

MikeTheKid wrote:We could've drafted:

Jimmer
Klay
Alec Burks
The Morris twins
KAWHI
Vucevic
Shumpert
Tobias Harris
FARIED
MARSHON
N. Cole
Jimmy Butler


And EG drafted Ves, need I say more


Kemba and Knight also, imagine them on our team instead of Price.
Nene: "If you want to go for the gold, the championship, make the team better, you need to think forward. I don’t like to talk about .500.”
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Post#13 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:27 pm by payitforward

Vesely played pretty well the 2d half of his rookie year. He is really bad this year.

Of course, he's only played 165 minutes, so we don't have a data set that warrants prediction. Yet, so far not so good.

And one of the problems is in that small data set -- Vesely is playing less than 14 minutes a game. And it's his bad performances that earn him his extended bench time.

So... is he a bust? I keep stopping over the good minutes much of last year. Perhaps it would be better to ask instead how he compares to other guys drafted in 2011.

Clos compares Jan unfavorably to other 2011 lottery picks, but why stop w/ the lottery? Look at the 10 guys taken right after the lottery: 1 hasn't played in the league (Mirotic), 3 haven't looked real good (Shumpert [the some people like him; I don't see why], Smith, Jackson), and the other 6 look like better players than Jan (Vucevic, Harris, Singleton, Motieujunas, Faried, Brooks).

How about the next 10, taken from 26-35? So far, it certainly looks like Hamilton, Butler, Honeycutt, Singler and even Mack(!) are more effective NBA players at their position than Vesely is.

What about the guys taken from 36-45? Jordan Williams, Chandler Parsons, Jon Leuer, and Josh Harrellson all give indications of turning out better NBA players than our Jan Vesely. You can add LaVoy Allen and maybe even one or two other guys from the dregs of the 2011 draft's last 15 players.

Now... add in the fact that surely we could have traded our #6 pick for a couple of lower picks (e.g. a lower round 1 and a mid-round 2 pick), it's not even sufficiently damning to compare Jan to individuals taken after him. I'd sure like to have Motiejunas and Parsons more than I like having Vesely -- wouldn't you? (Not even going to mention Faried -- oh... I just did).

Another lesson from Ernie on how to turn assets into liabilities by being "smarter" than anyone else! :(
People say I'm mellowing with age. Nah.

It is still not possible to formulate a counter-argument -- even if I say... Is so!
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Post#14 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:44 pm by WizarDynasty

I liked Vesely, but the moment i brought him for work out and he showed me that he couldn't score on the perimeter against a point guard, that's when i knew i couldn't draft him. He seems decent guard small forwards and passing on the perimeter but there is no replacement for watching him airball free throws in that work out scrimmage before the draft or seeing how he couldn't even execute a reverse layup. He has great size and decent passing skills but he's no different than .....

MICHAEL RUFFIN. Jared Jeffries was way better than Vesely before his knee injury.
Vesely right now has the offensive skills of michael ruffin except he can catch alley hoops on occassion. Vesely has no shot fakes to draw fouls in the paint, no crossover dribbles, no spin moves, no hesitation moves, no pump fakes, no floaters, no sky hooks, no dribble and shoot ability, no fade away shots.
I honestly don't think Vesely could score with a 5'8 guard one on one from the perimeter.
LIke i said, the moment that Vesely showed me not one ounce of small forward skills in my predraft work outs, he would have been gone. I hoped he showed at least one of those skills that i mentioned. Right now, he is here to stay so you might as well focus on his low to the ground dribbling. He dribbles way to high to have any offensive impact from the perimeter and he clearly doesn't know how to improve his dribbling skills otherwise he would have done so.
Let leonsis oversee Vesely 5 hour dribble training regimen for the next month and fine Vesely if he doesn't meet dribbling enhance milestone every two days.
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Post#15 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 12:46 pm by miller31time

I think one of our posters gave him a great nickname a while back and it never stuck....

"Self Czech"
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Post#16 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 1:53 pm by TheBigThree

It's not the fact that we drafted Vesely that bugs me. Yes, he's a bust. Yes, most of us could see that coming.

What REALLY irks me is just how long EG fawned over and was enamored with Vesely. We heard how much he liked him even before the Kanter trade talks started. It's like he didn't even give anyone else on the board a chance.

How the hell that guy still has a job is beyond me.

Back to Jan for a second. I don't see a good reason not to send him to the D-league at this point. See if he can get his confidence up a bit. Our front court, especially when Booker returns (though injuries are obviously always a concern) is fairly stacked. Let the guy go play against lesser competition and see if he can do anything and hone actually NBA skills.
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Post#17 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 3:24 pm by keynote

Too high to get over; too low to get under. We're stuck in the middle, and the pain is thunder.
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Post#18 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 3:56 pm by AFM

Mods, please change thread title to "he a bust he a bust"
WizarDynasty wrote:Ted is trying to transform you from a bullet .....piece of metal shot from a gin into a wizard....wise.... wisest fans in the .ba. board has a long way to go but ee have wise wizard posters to guide into Ted the savior rescue operation.
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Post#19 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 4:17 pm by Mickstix

Could JV be the worst "top" draft pick in Bullets history? We know he's a bust for #6, but how much of a bust?? Has there ever been a worse player drafted at #6 (or higher) by us?? (Not an injury bust, but a real BUST like we see from JV.) I know little about pro basketball, Im a bored Caps fan, but even I can look at the guy and say "Wow, he the 6th pick in LAST years draft"? And think someone has to be punkin' me..
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Post#20 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He is a Bust
Sat Dec 1, 2012 4:36 pm by AFM

Well there is Kwame Brown.

Kwame is obviously a better player than Jan, but it was a slightly different situation.
WizarDynasty wrote:Ted is trying to transform you from a bullet .....piece of metal shot from a gin into a wizard....wise.... wisest fans in the .ba. board has a long way to go but ee have wise wizard posters to guide into Ted the savior rescue operation.
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