yardbarker

NCAA Wiretap Headlines

Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

Moderators: WizStorm, miller31time, LyricalRico, pineappleheadindc, nate33

Is Jan Vesely a Bust?

Yes, I've seen enough, Jan Vesely is a Bust for a 6th pick
122
76%
No, let's wait to see how he plays with JW and Nene
39
24%
 
Total votes : 161

Post#256 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:26 pm by nate33

Nivek wrote:One of the things I point out over at the blog -- during Wall's 41 minutes (all of them in the past two games), the Wizards produced an offensive rating of 98. During those two games, the Wizards offensive rating overall was 113.

This is NOT knocking Wall, but pointing out the unsupported assertions about what Wall's return has meant to the team. Wall's been along for the ride the past two games, which is perfectly fine considering that he's returning to the lineup after such a long absence and that he's not completely in shape yet.

Giving Wall credit for something he hasn't actually done serves to take credit from the guys who are actually getting the job done -- like Price and Webster.


GhostsOfGil wrote:Small sample size but after 2 games, 82games.com has Wall at +14 in on/off diff. His counterpart is averaging a PER of 7.4 per 48 minutes and he's shooting .385 eFG% on jumpers; about 7% better than last season.

His per 36 numbers are ridiculous; about 23 ppg and 9 assists. I'm not sure we could have asked for a better start from a player who missed 33 games.

Can both of these be true?
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
User avatar
Posts: 38,730
And1: 1,107
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
Top

Post#257 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:27 pm by GhostsOfGil

nate33 wrote:
Nivek wrote:One of the things I point out over at the blog -- during Wall's 41 minutes (all of them in the past two games), the Wizards produced an offensive rating of 98. During those two games, the Wizards offensive rating overall was 113.

This is NOT knocking Wall, but pointing out the unsupported assertions about what Wall's return has meant to the team. Wall's been along for the ride the past two games, which is perfectly fine considering that he's returning to the lineup after such a long absence and that he's not completely in shape yet.

Giving Wall credit for something he hasn't actually done serves to take credit from the guys who are actually getting the job done -- like Price and Webster.


GhostsOfGil wrote:Small sample size but after 2 games, 82games.com has Wall at +14 in on/off diff. His counterpart is averaging a PER of 7.4 per 48 minutes and he's shooting .385 eFG% on jumpers; about 7% better than last season.

His per 36 numbers are ridiculous; about 23 ppg and 9 assists. I'm not sure we could have asked for a better start from a player who missed 33 games.

Can both of these be true?


Based off the eye test I'd say Kevs data seems to show Walls impact more accurately.. but heres where I pulled that data from:

(updated yesterday and includes both games) http://www.82games.com/1213/1213WAS.HTM

Edit on 2nd glance are you sure those numbers are correct kev? Wall is averaging an oRTG of 107.
GhostsOfGil
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 8,203
And1: 667
Joined: Jul 5, 2006
Top

Post#258 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:34 pm by nate33

On the John Wall page, it reads:

Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.: +0.4
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.: -14.1
Net Points per 100 Possessions.: +14.5

So Wall is a net zero on offense, but makes a ginormous impact defensively.
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
User avatar
Posts: 38,730
And1: 1,107
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
Top

Post#259 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:24 pm by Nivek

Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats? :) The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.

Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
Nivek





Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 6,696
And1: 625
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Top

Post#260 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:37 pm by AFM

^^True. But he has looked beastly on defense in the last 2 games. I don't know what's gotten into him. I think he's angry at his injury and career trajectory. This was supposed to be a big year for him and I think it's led to increased motivation. All pure conjecture.
WizarDynasty wrote:Ted is trying to transform you from a bullet .....piece of metal shot from a gin into a wizard....wise.... wisest fans in the .ba. board has a long way to go but ee have wise wizard posters to guide into Ted the savior rescue operation.
AFM
Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,262
And1: 772
Joined: May 25, 2012
Top

Post#261 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:41 pm by nate33

Nivek wrote:Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats? :) The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.

Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.

Of course, you are correct. I was trying to be brief and ended up imprecise.
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
User avatar
Posts: 38,730
And1: 1,107
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
Top

Post#262 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:48 pm by fishercob

Nivek wrote:Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats? :) The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.

Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.


Well, we know from Ted's Take that when AJ Price was on the floor the Pacers were the best defensive team of all time. Since he's Wall's backup, I'm pretty sure that Wall is the best defender since Bill Russell. Because, ya know.... Ted's Take! With all the empathy and optionality and stuff!
"Some people have a way with words....some people....not have way."
— Steve Martin
fishercob
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 11,848
And1: 568
Joined: Apr 24, 2002
Location: Tenleytown, DC
Top

Post#263 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:54 pm by Upper Decker

Vesely is so dreadfully awful on offense it literally kills the half court offense. Ariza's not much better, but Vesely is such a liability you can't play him more than a few minutes at a time without totally swinging the game.
Upper Decker
Rookie
Posts: 1,096
And1: 105
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
Location: On a podium reminding everyone how right my predictions were
Top

Post#264 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:06 am by Induveca

Nivek wrote:Unless we're going to credit Wall for guys performing better when he's in uniform but not on the floor.


The team is playing with far more energy/speed/decisiveness since Wall's return.

I wouldn't discount practice time with Wall. Employees always step their game up when a dynamic middle manager is injected into a stalled project.
Induveca


Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 5,557
And1: 84
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Top

Post#265 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:54 pm by dobrojim

nate33 wrote:
Nivek wrote:Nate: Am I gonna have to fight you about how you describe on/off stats? :) The on/off stats don't say Wall is having a huge impact on defense. The stats say the TEAM defense has been better with Wall on the floor. They don't say that Wall is responsible for that change.

Looking for causality is what led to my defensive tracking project lo those many years ago.

Of course, you are correct. I was trying to be brief and ended up imprecise.


how could you?
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
dobrojim
RealGM
Posts: 11,074
And1: 176
Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Top

Post#266 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Tue Feb 5, 2013 11:56 pm by Knighthonor

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INIXanSQy0Y[/youtube]

What The ****! ? !

I got questions and want some answers on this... :x
Knighthonor
Sixth Man
User avatar
Posts: 1,739
And1: 76
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Top

Post#267 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 12:37 am by dangermouse

If your question is "why isnt he throwing it down on the NBA like that?"

he answer is: NBA players are much much bigger and much much more athletic and much much better than Euroleague guys.

I still think he needs to play with the energy and heart that he played with overseas. He doesnt seem to be bringing it quite as much here.
Fri Jul 5, 2013 4:36 am by dangermouse
dangermouse wrote:44 is my best guess.

I think we make the playoffs, no lower than 6th seed.
dangermouse
Assistant Coach
User avatar
Posts: 4,089
And1: 169
Joined: Dec 8, 2009
Top

Post#268 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 6:20 am by closg00

Knighthonor wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INIXanSQy0Y[/youtube]

What The ****! ? !

I got questions and want some answers on this... :x


Yeah, we all want some answers. How can a GM and scouting department that were unanimous in selecting JV, still have jobs?
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
closg00
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 14,820
And1: 186
Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Top

Post#269 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 8:30 am by Nivek

It's a highlight reel. A similar video could be put together for his NBA career. Players usually look really impressive when all you see is their best plays.
"A lot of what we call talent is the desire to practice."
-- Malcolm Gladwell

Check out my blog about the Wizards, movies, writing, music, TV, sports, and whatever else comes to mind.
Nivek





Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 6,696
And1: 625
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Top

Post#270 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 10:05 am by tontoz

Nivek wrote:It's a highlight reel. A similar video could be put together for his NBA career. Players usually look really impressive when all you see is their best plays.


Before Yi was drafted i remember people making a big deal of his youtube clips. There were people on a Hawks board that were all for drafting him instead of Horford.
tontoz
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 12,985
And1: 433
Joined: Apr 10, 2005
Top

Post#271 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 12:28 pm by Zonkerbl

Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
Zonkerbl




Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 3,347
And1: 153
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
Top

Post#272 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 12:29 pm by Kanyewest

Kanyewest
Assistant Coach
User avatar
Posts: 4,164
And1: 118
Joined: Jul 5, 2004
Top

Post#273 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 12:34 pm by Zonkerbl

Ok, enough of that crap. Now for the only highlight reel you will ever see that includes a defensive rebound:
Kevin Love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-SMaqwCcCU
Comparing Rose to Wall is like asking which is a more impressive cat: A cheetah or a wolf? Dude, Wall ain’t no damn cat!
Zonkerbl




Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 3,347
And1: 153
Joined: Mar 24, 2010
Top

Post#274 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 1:13 pm by GhostsOfGil

Damn I tried to find a Michael Ruffin highlight reel but couldn't find anything.
GhostsOfGil
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 8,203
And1: 667
Joined: Jul 5, 2006
Top

Post#275 Re: Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust
Wed Feb 6, 2013 1:15 pm by montestewart

GhostsOfGil wrote:Damn I tried to find a Michael Ruffin highlight reel but couldn't find anything.

I found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqgYNPANWa0
montestewart
General Manager
Posts: 7,575
And1: 734
Joined: Feb 24, 2009
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Washington Wizards


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users