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Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II

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Post#81 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:14 am by pineappleheadindc

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA

Also: Someone funnier than I should make a comedy Kevin Seraphin French-language decision tree, where every path ends in "shoot."
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Post#82 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:34 am by LyricalRico

Seraphin has essentially become the frontcourt version of the 2011-12 Jordan Crawford. Heck, at this point I'd love to package both of them for another prospect or pick.
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Post#83 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:28 pm by hands11

LyricalRico wrote:Seraphin has essentially become the frontcourt version of the 2011-12 Jordan Crawford. Heck, at this point I'd love to package both of them for another prospect or pick.


He is kind of frustrating.

So much talent. He does some things amazingly well. He has a sweet shot most the time.

But the holes he has are killer.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278297

Just look at his number compared to Nene.

Nene got 9 rebounds, Kevin got 3.
Nene 6 assists. Kevin 0
Nene 2 steals. Kevin 0

But Kevin found time to shoot 18 times while Nene only shot 12 and they both played the same minutes.

Kevin is looking more like a big version of Nick Young then Crawford. At least Crawford does other things like rebound and pass.

On a side not. Cousins is a total beast. Nice audition.
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Post#84 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:41 pm by Ruzious

pineappleheadindc wrote:Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA

Also: Someone funnier than I should make a comedy Kevin Seraphin French-language decision tree, where every path ends in "shoot."

Ouch. :)

It was actually not that bad a problem towards the end of last season, because he would typically get the ball down low - where he was in position to make high percentage shots, and he did... make a high percentage of those shots.
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Post#85 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:40 am by hands11

Ok, after what I saw Kevin do last night to Faried in the post, he is off the trade blocks for now. Maybe forever.

There is probably no one player on the team that has been more a question mark to me regarding long term potential vs do you sell high while you can. Great talent. Soft as tissue.

But here is my perspective. He is still a very young man. He is only 23. He is signed cheap at 2.7M next year. He has amazing touch on his shot, post moves, a left hand, a feather soft mid range that he can get off quickly and he hit his FTAs now. .944 for January 15-18 With such a soft stroke, I think he should remain a high percentage FT shooter. Now we just have to get him to the line more.

So what is missing. No enough rebounding. Not enough of a power game. Shoots like Nick Young. To much and to quickly and little passing. For me, I think part of this is because he can shoot and the second part is he is scared to death of a double team which he hadn't learned to handle.

But I have seen so much progress in his game since he first got here. He is learning and developing. He has made lots of progress. It looked like he had kind of reached a place where he wasn't learning anything new.

But as of the Denver game, I saw major stuff that I think can take him the next level. Light bulb moment that could be as impactful as Beal finding his 3 ball.

The double team.
To start, with a more complete roster, teams won't be doing that as much. But teams will still trap him in the post if he is a turnover machines until he can handle it.

Nene Move #1
Here is what I saw. Kevin in the post holding the ball with one hand away from his body shielding the defender with his off arm looking around for his teammates. THAT IS PURE NENE. He stood there relax looking around the court. Then he started toward the basket. He dipped his shoulder into Faried chest and took small balance steps until he was right under the basket. He just moved Faried out of the way like he was a child. Then he went up and got the foul.

That is the Nene effect on Kevin. I know they have been working on it for a while but I saw it in a game and I loved it. This is why you have players like Nene and Okafor on a team that has a player like Kevin.

He did this kind of thing not just once but on back to back plays. And I think he liked it. And he got lots of praise from his teammates and coaches for it.

Nene Clone move #2
He was under the basket for a rebound and he just held the defender off with his off hand and just stood there while rebound dropped into his other hand. Again. Nene does stuff like that.

No way I trade this young man right now. He is already a better mid range shooter then Nene. If Nene can continued to teach him his post game, Kevin S can become a Pure Beast while maintaining his feather soft touch. Then as Nene continues to age, Kevin will be a complete skill player ready to step into that role.

That is how you build a team for the long term. Vet and pupil. What I saw was the pupil learning some moves from his mentor. Nene must have been very proud.

I'll me looking for more of these Nene like moves in the next game from young Kevin.
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Post#86 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:15 pm by sfam

^Good post, Hands, I agree. Seraphin is still developing at a high rate. Unfortunately, like most development, its 2 steps forward, one step back. I think a consistent rotation and approach will help -now that we have the full compliment including Wall, lets see if he looks different two months from now. But he's definitely worth his salary, so no, we don't dump this guy unless we get some real talent in return.
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Post#87 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:41 pm by nuposse04

That was honestly his best game as a pro. It led to a quality win, and like Beal, actually played within the flow of the game. I don't think Wall will be the catalyzing reason that helps him play like last year, its mostly cerebral with him. We need one proper big man coach for him and Jan. You can certain things rubbing off on him, his low Post D is getting better, maybe that's from Emeka's teachings or McGee's general idioticness, but he did well in that facet. He put up like 18-7 in 26 mins, that's not too shabby. He's still on the trade block, but only for a truely necessary piece. I wouldn't say Derrick Williams is worth more than Seraphin right now. He'll also get a damn good test tonight against the clippers, they aren't a particularly skilled FC, but they will let us gauge how little or how much he may be lacking against athletic FCs.
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Post#88 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:07 pm by hands11

sfam wrote:^Good post, Hands, I agree. Seraphin is still developing at a high rate. Unfortunately, like most development, its 2 steps forward, one step back. I think a consistent rotation and approach will help -now that we have the full compliment including Wall, lets see if he looks different two months from now. But he's definitely worth his salary, so no, we don't dump this guy unless we get some real talent in return.


Thanks sfam

He definitely still has more to learn. I remember two plays early where he didn't come to meet the ball in the first half. Brewer took at least one of those the distance. Those are the little thinks he still needs to work on.

But then there were those plays I described above that really showed he is learning some Nene moves. He was really tangling it up with Faried all night. Putting a body on him and doing what Faried does to players right back at him. Only Kevin is even stronger then Faried is.

I think he even disrupted some McGee alley opp plays in the 2nd half.

As a side note, I liked the Kevin and Booker combination. That is some bruise brothers right there.

Kevin is not McGee in regard to being coachable and developing the things you ask him to develop. He also has to body to hold defensive position and to get position on offense.

If we trade Kevin, and we will be kicking ourselves later for doing it. I am now committed to waiting it out with him and living through the mistakes he makes. I have seen enough to know he is going to get there. That game yesterday... I saw that he is getting it.
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Post#89 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:53 pm by sfam

hands11 wrote:I think he even disrupted some McGee alley opp plays in the 2nd half.

He did two in a row in fact. But more impressive was when he posted up and scored on McGee twice, and then McGee tried to force the issue with Seraphin the next series, only to completely botch the play.

Bottom line, we thought the story of this game was Nene vs McGee. It turns out the actual story was Seraphin vs McGee, where Seraphin wanted to show the guy who used to be ahead of him, where he now stood.
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Post#90 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:06 pm by hands11

sfam wrote:
hands11 wrote:I think he even disrupted some McGee alley opp plays in the 2nd half.

He did two in a row in fact. But more impressive was when he posted up and scored on McGee twice, and then McGee tried to force the issue with Seraphin the next series, only to completely botch the play.

Bottom line, we thought the story of this game was Nene vs McGee. It turns out the actual story was Seraphin vs McGee, where Seraphin wanted to show the guy who used to be ahead of him, where he now stood.


And lets not leave out him schooling Faried as well. The the next time down he used Koufos.

Seems he had a little something for all three of them.

To establish this as a new pattern, he needs to show that stuff again tonight against LAC
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Post#91 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:44 am by gordito

What's with this guy? I had a lot of faith in him before, but I'm sick and tired of seeing sub-5 rebound games (which is crazy considering his girth and length) and him scoring 15 points on 15 shots with no free throw attempts.
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Post#92 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:56 pm by nuposse04

I still love Seraphin but this was posted on extremeskins, and is **** hysterical

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blog ... -Flow1.jpg
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Post#93 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:02 pm by nate33

nuposse04 wrote:I still love Seraphin but this was posted on extremeskins, and is **** hysterical

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blog ... -Flow1.jpg

That's great stuff. It's funny because it's true. My favorite one is the process flow for receiving the ball 15 feet out.
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Post#94 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:31 pm by tontoz

:lol:
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Post#95 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:43 am by hands11

Back to his old way.

Last 5 games by rebouding.

3
3
3
7
3

FTAs

2
0
0
4
0

Pts the last 3 games

4
6
4
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Post#96 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:29 am by Halcyon

I would trade him the first chance I have for anybody of value. He's basically a bigger + taller + fatter version of Nick Young at this point.
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Post#97 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:39 am by nate33

Halcyon wrote:I would trade him the first chance I have for anybody of value. He's basically a bigger + taller + fatter version of Nick Young at this point.

I agree that he plays like Nick Young right now, but I'm not convinced that he can't get better. Nick Young wasn't the brightest bulb, and he had a learning disorder. He was always going to be a bit of a liability with respect to making decisions and running complicated plays. There was little reason to believe that he would ever get much better.

Seraphin started basketball later in life. His problem is a lack of experience rather than an inability to learn. Also, Seraphin, like Young, is a pretty good man defender, but unlike Young, he has shown signs of being decent in help defense as well. Finally, big men with his foot speed and shooting touch don't exactly grow on trees. The fundamental skills are there. They just need to be harnessed properly.

I really think Seraphin can pan out to be a very good offensive player and will eventually become capable of handling double teams and making the right decisions. My greatest concern is his rebounding. My general impression is that players rarely improve their rebounding habits all that much. They may get stronger (which was never an issue with Seraphin) but their instincts don't improve.
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Post#98 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:13 pm by DANNYLANDOVER

nate33 wrote:
Halcyon wrote:I would trade him the first chance I have for anybody of value. He's basically a bigger + taller + fatter version of Nick Young at this point.

I agree that he plays like Nick Young right now, but I'm not convinced that he can't get better. Nick Young wasn't the brightest bulb, and he had a learning disorder. He was always going to be a bit of a liability with respect to making decisions and running complicated plays. There was little reason to believe that he would ever get much better.

Seraphin started basketball later in life. His problem is a lack of experience rather than an inability to learn. Also, Seraphin, like Young, is a pretty good man defender, but unlike Young, he has shown signs of being decent in help defense as well. Finally, big men with his foot speed and shooting touch don't exactly grow on trees. The fundamental skills are there. They just need to be harnessed properly.

I really think Seraphin can pan out to be a very good offensive player and will eventually become capable of handling double teams and making the right decisions. My greatest concern is his rebounding. My general impression is that players rarely improve their rebounding habits all that much. They may get stronger (which was never an issue with Seraphin) but their instincts don't improve.

The thing is, it's been easier to overlook Seraphin's rebounding deficiencies and lack of FTs because we have Okafor and Nene covering for him. Imagine if we still had Mcgee and Vesely starting, we would be the worst rebounding team. Like Nivek always says, if you take enough shots, you cans score a lot of points. Until he starts shooting over 50% from the floor and getting at least 4 fts a game, and averaging 8 rebs, he has no place in the future of this team. It's funny how the same people that hate Crawford's game, turn around and back this ball hog.
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Post#99 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:05 am by hands11

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... n-seraphin

Been a while since he has had a 10 rebounds game.

Look over his game log. He was on a tear at one point. 3 ten rebound games in a row and 4 in 6 games.

2 of those games where wins. One against Miami the other against Portland. 1 was a 1 pts lose to ATL
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Post#100 Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II
Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:13 am by nate33

DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Halcyon wrote:I would trade him the first chance I have for anybody of value. He's basically a bigger + taller + fatter version of Nick Young at this point.

I agree that he plays like Nick Young right now, but I'm not convinced that he can't get better. Nick Young wasn't the brightest bulb, and he had a learning disorder. He was always going to be a bit of a liability with respect to making decisions and running complicated plays. There was little reason to believe that he would ever get much better.

Seraphin started basketball later in life. His problem is a lack of experience rather than an inability to learn. Also, Seraphin, like Young, is a pretty good man defender, but unlike Young, he has shown signs of being decent in help defense as well. Finally, big men with his foot speed and shooting touch don't exactly grow on trees. The fundamental skills are there. They just need to be harnessed properly.

I really think Seraphin can pan out to be a very good offensive player and will eventually become capable of handling double teams and making the right decisions. My greatest concern is his rebounding. My general impression is that players rarely improve their rebounding habits all that much. They may get stronger (which was never an issue with Seraphin) but their instincts don't improve.

The thing is, it's been easier to overlook Seraphin's rebounding deficiencies and lack of FTs because we have Okafor and Nene covering for him. Imagine if we still had Mcgee and Vesely starting, we would be the worst rebounding team. Like Nivek always says, if you take enough shots, you cans score a lot of points. Until he starts shooting over 50% from the floor and getting at least 4 fts a game, and averaging 8 rebs, he has no place in the future of this team. It's funny how the same people that hate Crawford's game, turn around and back this ball hog.

I'm not defending Seraphin's production. Believe me, I am not impressed by his scoring given his lack of efficiency. I'm just saying that Seraphin has some impressive skills. He has a sweet hook shot with either hand. He shoots an extremely high percentage (for a big man) from 16-23 feet. He has quick feet and a strong, low center of gravity on defense. If he could effectively utilize all these tools, he'd be a very good player. And given his lack of basketball experience, I think it's imprudent to give up on him.
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