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Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II

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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#31 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Nivek wrote:1) Position designations at 82games aren't good. They're not based on actual intel on the team's rotation, but rather on height.

2) Even if the position designation is correct, the sample size is small -- about 190 minutes.

3) Even if the position designation is correct and we ignore the small sample size, the difference is almost exclusively in FG%. (He also got an additional rebound per 48 minutes.)

I'm not poo-pooing the idea of Seraphin playing some at PF. But those numbers don't really offer much support for the idea.


Thanks. I have my mind made up but it's nice to be informed. So those stats mean diddly poo! Thank goodness for intelligent, rational, fact-based folks like Nivek to balance us intuitive folk. :)

To me, the Wizards were dumb not to try McGee with Seraphin and they should be looking at Alex Len or even Jeff Withey at C to play next to Seraphin. Kevin is best at PF. He's Antoine Carr/Ben Coleman but bigger and more agile than either player.

I don't know why but to me it should be intuitively obvious to others that Kevin Seraphin would be a beast at PF.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#32 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:30 pm

Since 82 games is based on height, per Nivek, then Kevin with Vesely always makes Kevin the PF in 82 games statistical breakdowns.

Last season, the two players taller that Kevin played with were Nene and Vesely. Seraphin's PF stats were really good last season. Unfortunately, the dumb Okafor trade has prevented much time for Vesely with Seraphin this season. See lineups 10 and 16 this season of Vesely with Seraphin, and lineup 17 for Nene with Seraphin:

http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS13.HTM

Very small sample size, but last season showed many instances where Vesely with Seraphin was a good combination for the Wizards. Virtually every Vesely/Seraphin lineup did well last season:

http://www.82games.com/1112/11WAS15.HTM

The Wizards could effectively start Crawford, Beal, Singleton, Vesely, and Seraphin to get all their young players the most game experience. They can come in with their veterans as needed off the bench. I think this would get Vesely out of his funk real fast.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#33 » by Nivek » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:47 pm

Looking at this year's data, they might have changed the approach to position designation. They always list the center last and in those Vesely-Seraphin pairings, Seraphin is last. So, they have him at center there. But, then they have Nene listed at center when paired with Seraphin, and that doesn't seem right. The only time they don't list Nene at center is when he's playing with Okafor.

Just guessing here, but Roland probably got tired of people (like me) complaining about the position designations and went with a "most center" system. So, the guy who's "most center" is listed at center, the next guy at PF, the next at SF and so on. That would be an improvement on the old height-based system, but still not all that good.

I'm trying to think about who defends whom when Nene and Seraphin are on the floor together. It could be that Seraphin is at PF and Nene at C. Might be the other way around. In all honesty, the position designations don't matter all that much. Matchups matter a lot less than the standard analysis would have us believe. The game isn't 5 1-on-1 contests, it's a single game of 5-on-5.

I'll pay more attention next time I see Nene and Seraphin on the floor together. Ultimately, I don't think there's that much distinction between PF and C, at least in terms of the way these guys play the positions. Neither is a stretch 4. They're both inside players regardless of whether they're called PF or C.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#34 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:59 pm

tontoz wrote:I don't think Seraphin was as bad early last year as some thought. I just think he wasn't getting enough minutes, touches to be comfortable out there. I think he already had a hook/jumper but didn't have the opportunity to show it.

Now that he is getting plenty of time/touches it is more a matter of developing his game. He is saying the right things but the proof is what happens on the floor. I have yet to see him get the ball in post, face up and make a strong drive to the basket. Even when he gets an offensive rebound close to the basket he is more inclined to fade away instead of moving towards the rim and trying to dunk.


Exactly. The progress will come in stages. I actually did see him make a move toward the hoop last games, but he went to the backside of the rim. Again, avoiding the contact but he did make the shot.

Point is, he has proven he can score. The next stage is scoring pts while causing the other team to foul him.
Free shots at the line plus a foul is worth more then just 2pts.

Hell, I would even tell him, we realize you might get called for a charge now an again. But if someone wants to set up in front of your 275 lbs going to the hoop, take it strong and make them think twice before wanting to do that again. I would gladly give up 1 foul a game to see him make that move.

Anyone of you remember the first KS interview where he pounded his hand into his fist and said he like to play aggressive ? We need to see more of that Kevin.

But at a min, he needs to rebound better and more consistent.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#35 » by hands11 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:32 am

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4289/kevin-seraphin

In his third year, this kid simply has to step it up and become more consistent.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... n-seraphin

Year 3 is a good time to show some major improvement if you plan on being an impact player.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#36 » by hands11 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:14 am

LA game.

Kevin started really rough but rebounded to have a pretty decent game.

I saw some nice rebounds from him. End up with 8 but in 37 minutes, you would expect more then that.

8-14 from the field 1 FTA 16 pts

Nene, he had 12 FTA in 22 minutes 17 pts.

Randy said in the post game that Kevin needs to get to the line more and that he is practicing again Nene. That is good to hear and that is one of the huge benefits of having Nene healthy and on the court.

Give me hope that Kevin can still be a beast. Nene will teach him and toughen him up. The kid did have 2 dunks tonight.

I saw some toughness in Martins eyes tonight as well. Maybe he can still make something of himself. Give him the start and see what he can do.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#37 » by Knighthonor » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:58 am

hands11 wrote:LA game.

Kevin started really rough but rebounded to have a pretty decent game.

I saw some nice rebounds from him. End up with 8 but in 37 minutes, you would expect more then that.

8-14 from the field 1 FTA 16 pts

Nene, he had 12 FTA in 22 minutes 17 pts.

Randy said in the post game that Kevin needs to get to the line more and that he is practicing again Nene. That is good to hear and that is one of the huge benefits of having Nene healthy and on the court.

Give me hope that Kevin can still be a beast. Nene will teach him and toughen him up. The kid did have 2 dunks tonight.

I saw some toughness in Martins eyes tonight as well. Maybe he can still make something of himself. Give him the start and see what he can do.

Well honestly, I felt like the Refs gave the lakers the game. Cant get calls if refs wont give it to you.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#38 » by hands11 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:25 am

You ignore that Nene got to the line.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#39 » by AFM » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:31 am

My beef with Seraphin is that he's the PF/C version of Nick Young, Dude never passes it back out. Man, tonight one play he attracted a triple team and I was screaming "NO NO NO NO NO!!!!" and this dude shot it anyway. WTF.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#40 » by closg00 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:38 am

Wittman yelled at Seraphin for not being in rebound position, then he stood alone, flabbergasted. Wittman then drew up a play for Seraphin on the next possession but Seraphin had his jump hook blocked by Maxiell. When Wittman pulled Seraphin shortly thereafter, he got in Seraphin’s face and shouted, “You just got your shot blocked by a small forward!” He demanded that Seraphin play with more force. His demand was not met.


Randy must have quite an ulcer.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#41 » by tontoz » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:26 pm

Seraphin really has a major mental block about taking it to the basket strong. Even when he gets an offensive rebound right next to the basket he throws up a quick touch shot rather than trying to dunk.

I just sent him the following tweet

"In Nene's last 6 games he has taken 37 foul shots. In your last 6 games you have taken only 1 foul shot."
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#42 » by closg00 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:50 pm

tontoz wrote:Seraphin really has a major mental block about taking it to the basket strong. Even when he gets an offensive rebound right next to the basket he throws up a quick touch shot rather than trying to dunk.

I just sent him the following tweet

"In Nene's last 6 games he has taken 37 foul shots. In your last 6 games you have taken only 1 foul shot."


With Kevin, Jan and all of these guys they are who they are. Kevin is not an aggressive post player like Nene. Jan is going to pass that ball immediately unless he can finish uncontested at the rim. Randy and the assistants try to preach to them but they remain who they are as players. It's hard to change......especially if you are a Wizard.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#43 » by hands11 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:02 am

Can you tweak him something like ... stop playing like such a pus or Hey Kev, stop playing like a 12 year old girl. You're 6-9 275. Play like it. Take it strong to the basket.

Just a thought because 2 rebound and no FTAs game after game isn't getting it done
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#44 » by AFM » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:47 am

He is like a hook shot robot. Doesn't matter what the D gives him, he's going for the hook shot baby!!!
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#45 » by Halcyon » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:49 am

This guy is mechanical because he hasn't played the game for that long. You can tell he has low bball iq, and bad overall awareness. As long as he has no moves towards the basket and doesnt crash the boards hard, he's going to be a bench player.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#46 » by Sebzor » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:37 pm

would you trade seraphin & vesely + 2nd rounder for D. Williams + 2nd rounder?
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#47 » by tontoz » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:45 pm

He did make a nice spin move last night and got to the rim but missed the dunk. The previous game he drove all the way from the 3 point line left handed for a layup. Baby steps i guess.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#48 » by tontoz » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:22 pm

Take last week for example. An old NBA-TV special came on television featuring a behind the scenes look at none-other-than former Wizard Gilbert Arenas. Seraphin became infatuated with the way Arenas "sleeps at the gym." Immediately following the television piece, Seraphin drove to the Verizon Center and took 1,020 shots, leaving the facility around midnight.

Back on December 7th, Seraphin refused to celebrate his 23rd birthday out on the town, even with his roommate Taylor and girlfriend Allison pestering him that he deserved to have some fun. "We keep losing. I feel guilty to celebrate. Not this year," said Seraphin in a frustrated tone.



http://www.wusa9.com/sports/article/234 ... est-Player

Great quote, dubious title to the article lol.
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#49 » by closg00 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:57 am

Lots of great quotes from ML new article, here is the obvious stuff that somehow never seems to translate into actual practice for Kevin so-far.

Teams are gearing up to slow down Seraphin, who finished strongly after the Wizards dealt JaVale McGee to Denver — he scored at least 10 points in 22 of the final 25 games last season. Seraphin said that when he got the ball inside against Cleveland, he received a triple team.

Wittman has urged Seraphin to use his imposing, 6-foot-9, 275-pound frame to attack the opposition inside, rather than only taking floaters and hook shots. Seraphin has attempted just 19 free throws this season and missed his only two attempts in the past six games.

In contrast, Nene has attempted 87 free throws in 14 games — an average of 6.2 per game. Seraphin has not attempted more than four free throws in a game this season.

“With a body like that and his quickness and strength,” Wittman said, shaking his head. “I mean, Nene’s played, I think, 400 less minutes and has taken a million more free throws than him.

“Kevin right now is just content with avoiding contact and we’re trying to teach him, especially in a crowd, to pump fake, pump fake, and get a guy in the air and try to score. If not, you get two free throws.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html
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Re: Kevin Seraphin Thread - Part II 

Post#50 » by dobrojim » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:51 pm

Nene doesn't have to make it complicated

just tell him to stop playing like a sissy
(and while you're at it, grab some freakin rebounds will ya?)

I do wonder what happened to his touch. For a while his
jump hook and face up jumper were falling regularly.
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