Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden

[Cramer]

You guys need to save some of this angst for the next deal. The idiotic one Ernie and Ted WILL make to try and stem the fan backlash on the one they DIDN'T make.

My guess is it'll a beauty.

[fishercob]

we also need to be patient with Beal. Look at Hardens first 2 years. Beal is going to end up having better numbers in compairson.

I agree, I'm glad we didn't do that trade. We aren't in a position to win a lot of games so why have a maxed out Harden on the roster? I rather see what Beal can do and have an organic rebuild. Harden is a good player but I'm not sure he would fit in with Wall. He needs the ball to be successful.

But I agree that Teddy has been a bust as an owner. His reasons for not doing this trade or laughable. EG has to go!

Ah, yes. The good old "we suck, so we don't need good players" meme. Effectively trading Beal, Singleton, Okafor, Ariza, and Booker for Harden, Ryan Anderson, and Jae Crowder would have made us plenty good. And we'd be young.

We would have been far from a perfect roster, but we'd be much further along than we are now. Ted would be selling tickets and Harden and Wall would be recruiting other young talent to come here. There would be excitement and hope.

[MikeTheKid]

Raptors fan coming in peace...We in Toronto understand horrible managment. I swear Wizards fans and Raps fans should hold a support group for fans destroyed by horrible management.

*hugs Why, hands him a beer*

Will you both join me for shots of Jameson to commemorate this

[TheKingOfVa360]

we also need to be patient with Beal. Look at Hardens first 2 years. Beal is going to end up having better numbers in compairson.

I agree, I'm glad we didn't do that trade. We aren't in a position to win a lot of games so why have a maxed out Harden on the roster? I rather see what Beal can do and have an organic rebuild. Harden is a good player but I'm not sure he would fit in with Wall. He needs the ball to be successful.

But I agree that Teddy has been a bust as an owner. His reasons for not doing this trade or laughable. EG has to go!

Ah, yes. The good old "we suck, so we don't need good players" meme. Effectively trading Beal, Singleton, Okafor, Ariza, and Booker for Harden, Ryan Anderson, and Jae Crowder would have made us plenty good. And we'd be young.

We would have been far from a perfect roster, but we'd be much further along than we are now. Ted would be selling tickets and Harden and Wall would be recruiting other young talent to come here. There would be excitement and hope.

Ryan Anderson doesn't play defense that well and I don't think he would have ever signed with us. That's just wishful thinking. I don't agree with the Ariza and Okafor trade at all but I'm happy we kept Beal. I'm not saying we don't need good players, I want to get better but I want to win a championship one day. We need a new GM and need to hit home runs on our draft picks. Then we can attract better talent in free agency.

[fishercob]

You guys need to save some of this angst for the next deal. The idiotic one Ernie and Ted WILL make to try and stem the fan backlash on the one they DIDN'T make.

My guess is it'll a beauty.

Okafor, Ariza, and our lottery pick for RUdy Gay. Maybe we'll add another future pick or two.

Ernie will talk about how there was no one in the lottery who could help us now. He'll extol Gay's virtues as a former national team player and 20 point scorer. He's very familiar with the court at the Verizon center having led UConn to the biggest upset loss in NCAA tournament history. He can guard multiple positions, is athletic and likes to play an up-tempo game like our young core of Wall and Vesely.

[MF23]

Since Harden was already successful at the highest level, had he been signed and found to be a bad fit next to Wall, then trading Wall for a good fit next to Harden would have been one way to proceed, TheKingOfVa360.

Trading Wall could get you the rights to Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel, etc. PLUS the Wizards could look to draft a lottery-quality PG like Michael Carter-Williams or C. J. McCollum.

I would swap Wall for Len and McCollum any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Those two with Harden, Nene, and Seraphin would be sick.

I respectfully disagree, Wall has a chance to be a franchise talent. Harden hasn't been successful on the highest level. He played like crap in the finals, has never been an all star, never made an all-nba team. I know you're not a big fan of Wall CCJ but he could be the best PG in the NBA one day. I would never trade him to find a better fit for Harden. Harden at his best isn't the best player on a championship team and maybe not even a playoff team. I just hope we suck for two more years so we have a shot at Wiggins or Jabari parker.

Regardless, I had high hopes for Teddy as an owner. He has been a massive disappointment so far. He clearly needs a new GM to lead this team and needs to fire EG but he won't do it for some reason.

Except when he destroyed the Spurs and daggered the Lakers with his closing ability during the playoffs. No excuse for his finals performance but people acting like he wasn't outstanding during the playoffs is absurd.

[LyricalRico]

Ah, yes. The good old "we suck, so we don't need good players" meme. Effectively trading Beal, Singleton, Okafor, Ariza, and Booker for Harden, Ryan Anderson, and Jae Crowder would have made us plenty good. And we'd be young.

Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Trading Beal+Singleton (and perhaps other filler) for Harden would not necessarily have meant the other changes people here have been suggesting would have happened. IIRC, the Okafor/Ariza trade happened pre-draft, so that would have already been in place before any Harden deal. We also would have already added Nene to the books (which is what is impacting the cap longterm). So had the Harden trade actually happened, the rest of the roster might very well have looked the same.

[fishercob]

Ah, yes. The good old "we suck, so we don't need good players" meme. Effectively trading Beal, Singleton, Okafor, Ariza, and Booker for Harden, Ryan Anderson, and Jae Crowder would have made us plenty good. And we'd be young.

Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Trading Beal+Singleton (and perhaps other filler) for Harden would not necessarily have meant the other changes people here have been suggesting would have happened. IIRC, the Okafor/Ariza trade happened pre-draft, so that would have already been in place before any Harden deal. We also would have already added Nene to the books (which is what is impacting the cap longterm). So had the Harden trade actually happened, the rest of the roster might very well have looked the same.

Semantics.

Bad analysis led to the OkaRiza trade, which made signing Harden look more expensive than it really was.

New Orleans was only able to S&T for Anderson because they had cleared that cap room via the OkaRiza deal. Orlando would have obviously made the same deal with us.

I don't think the other changes people are suggesting would have happened -- because Ernie Grunfeld has the mental capacity of a gibbon.

[Benjammin]

I don't think the other changes people are suggesting would have happened -- because Ernie Grunfeld has the mental capacity of a gibbon.

Don't be disparaging gibbons that way...

[MF23]

You guys need to save some of this angst for the next deal. The idiotic one Ernie and Ted WILL make to try and stem the fan backlash on the one they DIDN'T make.

My guess is it'll a beauty.

Okafor, Ariza, and our lottery pick for RUdy Gay. Maybe we'll add another future pick or two.

Ernie will talk about how there was no one in the lottery who could help us now. He'll extol Gay's virtues as a former national team player and 20 point scorer. He's very familiar with the court at the Verizon center having led UConn to the biggest upset loss in NCAA tournament history. He can guard multiple positions, is athletic and likes to play an up-tempo game like our young core of Wall and Vesely.

Joke all you want but Rudy Gay has turned into a good basketball player. Maybe not making the Olympic team lit a fire underneath him but I wouldn't be upset if he was on the Wizards now.

The main thing is does what has happened give Wall a legit reason to say I don't want to resign with Washington? The FO has elevated Walls status undeservingly yet they haven't built well around him anyway. It's all messed up. To me this all revolves around a lackadaisical approach.

[LyricalRico]

Bad analysis led to the OkaRiza trade, which made signing Harden look more expensive than it really was.

I actually think that we'll look back and point to the Nene trade for the undoing of what Ted/Ernie were starting to build. Up to that point, the post-Ted era had seen the quick dismantling of the Big Three (including getting out of Gil's contract) as well as some sound BOYD deals to add decent young talent. But when they traded for Nene and saw some early returns, Ted immediately went from "rebuild" to "win now" and that has influenced the organization's decision making.

[MikeTheKid]

Michael Lee is talking about the article he wrote about right now on 106.7FM right now! Looks like he got confirmation from several sources on both sides that this trade was rejected.

[jivelikenice]

Bad analysis led to the OkaRiza trade, which made signing Harden look more expensive than it really was.

I actually think that we'll look back and point to the Nene trade for the undoing of what Ted/Ernie were starting to build. Up to that point, the post-Ted era had seen the quick dismantling of the Big Three (including getting out of Gil's contract) as well as some sound BOYD deals to add decent young talent. But when they traded for Nene and saw some early returns, Ted immediately went from "rebuild" to "win now" and that has influenced the organization's decision making.

Wouldn't agree with that. The Nene trade, while not great, has paid some dividends in terms of mentoring and teaching the young guys how to play. The mistake was compunding that cap hit by taking on Okafor and Ariza as well, especially w/o knowing what else is out there. I was wrong and admit it on that deal (although if I were a gm I would have watched film from last season and realized how bad both players are now)...Now we have 7 guys on rookie deals and old guys on overpaid deals. Terrible roster balance. Putting Harden, a young vet with playoff experience on the verge of breaking out into a star on the roster would have been the perfect addition...We'd still have some youth, some experience, and a star going into his prime.

The problem is Ernie gets excited whe na deal is on the table and can't stop himself from doing it. He did it when we traded the 5th pick a day before the draft. There was no logical reason not to let the draft play out and see if Rubio slipped before executing the deal w/ Minnesota. At that point you can either draft Rubio for yourself or start a bidding war for the pick. He did the same here. He wanted to the deal and had a finite period of time with Rashard's contract, but he didn't have to do the deal or could have waited until the very end to do it on his own terms. instead New Orleans dictated the terms.

[jivelikenice]

Michael Lee is talking about the article he wrote about right now on 106.7FM right now! Looks like he got confirmation from several sources on both sides that this trade was rejected.

I'm glad he's standing by it. He doesn't seem to be a gguy that just throws stuff out there.

[Illuminaire]

Looking at the timing of his puff piece on EG, then this... is Michael Lee a Machiavellian genius?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since Harden was already successful at the highest level, had he been signed and found to be a bad fit next to Wall, then trading Wall for a good fit next to Harden would have been one way to proceed, TheKingOfVa360.

Trading Wall could get you the rights to Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel, etc. PLUS the Wizards could look to draft a lottery-quality PG like Michael Carter-Williams or C. J. McCollum.

I would swap Wall for Len and McCollum any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Those two with Harden, Nene, and Seraphin would be sick.

I respectfully disagree, Wall has a chance to be a franchise talent. Harden hasn't been successful on the highest level. He played like crap in the finals, has never been an all star, never made an all-nba team. I know you're not a big fan of Wall CCJ but he could be the best PG in the NBA one day. I would never trade him to find a better fit for Harden. Harden at his best isn't the best player on a championship team and maybe not even a playoff team. I just hope we suck for two more years so we have a shot at Wiggins or Jabari parker.

Regardless, I had high hopes for Teddy as an owner. He has been a massive disappointment so far. He clearly needs a new GM to lead this team and needs to fire EG but he won't do it for some reason.

And I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement, TKOV360.

I wouldn't say Harden played like crap in the Finals. He certainly played 3 crappy games out of the 5, the first of which the Thunder won despite his play. Harden had fairly strong games in games 2 and 5. He was, as you allude, really bad in games 3 and 4. Overall, in the playoffs Harden was terrific against SA and DAL. The Thunder might not have even made the Finals without him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/

Harden is only 23 years old. He sacrificed shots and minutes at OKC. He will make all star teams and 2nd or 3rd all NBA teams for years to come, TKOV360.

Right now Harden averages 24.7 points, 5.6 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.8 steals, 4.1 turnovers.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

I would put Harden in the same category of Gilbert Arenas, when Gilbert was 23. Harden can go off for 40 on any given night. He is most certainly a star who has the potential to become a superstar as Gilbert Arenas did by the time he was 25 or 26 years old.

I sort of agree with you that Harden isn't likely to be the best player on a championship team, TKOV360. We are seeing that his iso ability was greatly enhanced by having Kevin Durant as his teammate, and to a lesser extent Russell Westbrook. Still, Harden is a baller.

Where we obviously disagree is on John Wall. I don't think he's a franchise talent. Time will tell.

As for hoping we continue to suck, I'm really, tired of doing so. Maybe it is because I am over 50. Waiting three years or 5 years or 10 there are no guarantees. I want them to win. I want them to trade Okafor and Ariza next season when they are expiring, OR this season as teams like the Lakers get DESPERATE.

Most of the crap Ted/EG have done is reversible.

[MikeTheKid]

Michael Lee is talking about the article he wrote about right now on 106.7FM right now! Looks like he got confirmation from several sources on both sides that this trade was rejected.

I'm glad he's standing by it. He doesn't seem to be a gguy that just throws stuff out there.

I trust Mike Wise and all of his articles and he vouches for Mike Lee all the time

[Nivek]

Mike Lee has his faults as a reporter, but making up sources ain't one of them. If anything, he's too cautious.

I kinda agree with rico's take on the Nene trade. I didn't like that deal either.

And, let's keep in mind that while the Wizards were trading for Okafor and Ariza, giving away a draft pick and cap room, bypassing the free agent market and rejecting a trade for Harden, Leonsis was publicly congratulating himself for being smart.

[LyricalRico]

Bad analysis led to the OkaRiza trade, which made signing Harden look more expensive than it really was.

I actually think that we'll look back and point to the Nene trade for the undoing of what Ted/Ernie were starting to build. Up to that point, the post-Ted era had seen the quick dismantling of the Big Three (including getting out of Gil's contract) as well as some sound BOYD deals to add decent young talent. But when they traded for Nene and saw some early returns, Ted immediately went from "rebuild" to "win now" and that has influenced the organization's decision making.

Wouldn't agree with that. The Nene trade, while not great, has paid some dividends in terms of mentoring and teaching the young guys how to play. The mistake was compunding that cap hit by taking on Okafor and Ariza as well, especially w/o knowing what else is out there. I was wrong and admit it on that deal (although if I were a gm I would have watched film from last season and realized how bad both players are now)...Now we have 7 guys on rookie deals and old guys on overpaid deals. Terrible roster balance. Putting Harden, a young vet with playoff experience on the verge of breaking out into a star on the roster would have been the perfect addition...We'd still have some youth, some experience, and a star going into his prime.

I see your point. Even with Nene on the roster and the strategy changing to "win now", trading a lottery pick for Harden would have still played to that same strategy. Heck, adding Okafor/Ariza as supporting role players might have even looked better to some if they were going to be in a lineup featuring Nene+Wall+Harden. Still wouldn't have been a "great" team, though, and the injuries still would have set them back.

In the end, though, Lee's article is saying it all came down to money (at it often does). Rather than pay both Lewis and Blatche to go away, extend Harden for the max, and also sign another mid-tier FA or two - Ted chose to try to "get something" for what he would have to pay Lewis and then rejected other opportunities due to sticker shock.

So it seems Ted would rather spend a moderate amount of money to make incremental progress and postpone any big moves until 2014, instead of spending a lot of money to be good but still be a move or two away from being great. Since it's not my money, I'm not sure I can fault him but it's clear that his plan has backfired.

[Nivek]

Joke all you want but Rudy Gay has turned into a good basketball player. Maybe not making the Olympic team lit a fire underneath him but I wouldn't be upset if he was on the Wizards now.

So far this season, Gay rates a 103 in my stat system where 100 = average. His offensive efficiency is bad (97 points per 100 possessions vs. a league average of about 105). He's pretty average in the other stat categories.