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Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden

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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#166 » by Nivek » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:04 pm

Here's my version of what Cramer's talking about. I have a cold that's wearing me out. Not the first time, and when it's happened in previous seasons, I've lazed around in bed watching the full game before taking whatever medicine it is that's going to make me feel better and have me nodding off to sleep. Last night, I took the med in the 1st quarter. I managed to stay awake until halftime, but I saw not a moment of the second half. I have it recorded, but there's zero chance I'll go back and watch.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#167 » by DCZards » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:14 pm

Rafael122 wrote:The crazy thing is Beal has been balling the last 4 or 5 games. Kinda unfair to the kid, IMO. We're sitting here with what if's, and we may already have a guy who could be on that Harden pedestal in a year or two.


I was kinda thinking the same thing. I guess folks would rightfully argue that Beal has a long ways to go before we can claim that he's a James Harden-level talent...at a much cheaper price. It is encouraging though that OKC was apparently hot for Beal, even interviewed the kid before the draft. That says something about how highly-regarded Beal is/was, even by a smart GM like Presti.

I'm disappointed that Harden is not in a Zard uni, but I fully expect to enjoy watching BB play and develop over the next few years.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#168 » by pancakes3 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:22 pm

Secretly this thread is for people to vent about the OkaRiza trade.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#169 » by Nivek » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:26 pm

For me, what rankles about the Harden story has nothing to do with Beal. I've been writing all season that I think Beal will be fine long-term. His career has started like virtually all teenage rookie guards, including Harden. What rankles is the poor planning in the front office that closed off even the possibility of this kind of move.

Because the Wizards jumped so quickly to make the Okariza deal, they couldn't properly weigh the cost/benefit of acquiring Harden because of the salary he was going to receive.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#170 » by pineappleheadindc » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:47 pm

.

Whoa.

If I were Ted or one of his minions, I'd be concerned if I read some of the more recent comments to this thread.

It's not that the Wizards are angering long-time members of their fan base. It's that the Wizards, through their own incompetence, are becoming irrelevant to folks who have long-term ties to the organization. I'd rather my fans be mad (and invested) than make me invisible in their lives if I were the Wizards brass.

Once a fan base moves on, can mere winning get them back? I don't think all of them. (And I'm not convinced this crew in the Wizards front office has the wherewithall to win within my lifetime). Once people move on from you, they develop new interests, new lifestyles. We become climatized to other things in our lives.

We all get older. We move on. We grow into families and kids. Or leave the area. Or get more demanding jobs. Or become baseball fans. And this total long-term legacy of losing isn't growing new fans among the young. At least not in the numbers that are healthy.

I think Ted Leonsis is a well-intentioned man. But perhaps a victim of his own press vis-a-vis the Caps. His plan was to purposefully suck for a while. Then, he lucked into Ovy. Not by design from years ahead of the draft, he just walked into a transformational player. But his only strategy was to suck and draft high.

Suck and draft high isn't a strategy for the Wizards when your GM can't draft well. Or you trade second round picks for "cash considerations". (Houston had a second round pick starting for them last night and beat us.) We've failed long enough to have enough high draft picks to be better than we are, with or without Wall.

Ultimately, like Kev, I didn't catch the game last night. It's on my DVR, but I doubt I watch it. The boxscore this morning was enough for me. The 121212 concert seemed like a better use of my time. And it was.

It speaks volumes that we had more interest in this team - and a livelier board - during the days of Chris Whitney, Laron Profit, Juan Dixon, and (yikes) Juwan Howard. What a sad state of affairs that have befallen upon the Wizards organization.

Sorry so long of a post,

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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#171 » by TGW » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:05 pm

Nivek wrote:I vented a bit about this on my blog.

I think the key factor in why so many looooooooooooong term fans are wondering the hell they're still fans is the crushing disappointment in Ted Leonsis. He was the guy who we expected to fix all this.


Would you mind if I posted this on Ted's blog? I want him to know what someone who actually knows WTF they're doing would have treated our offseason.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#172 » by montestewart » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:06 pm

Good post, pineappleheadindc. Based on the pr coming out of the Wizards, I don't think they'll be able to understand the information in front of their eyes.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#173 » by Nivek » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:11 pm

TGW wrote:
Nivek wrote:I vented a bit about this on my blog.

I think the key factor in why so many looooooooooooong term fans are wondering the hell they're still fans is the crushing disappointment in Ted Leonsis. He was the guy who we expected to fix all this.


Would you mind if I posted this on Ted's blog? I want him to know what someone who actually knows WTF they're doing would have treated our offseason.


Feel free. :)

And I agree completely with pine's post. This happened with me and the Orioles back when Ripken retired. I'd grown so disgusted with Peter Angelos and the way the team was being run, that when Cal hung 'em up, I stopped paying attention. I essentially fell away from baseball completely -- totally casual fan. And this from a guy who knew the O's entire 40-man roster, plus.

I'm more interested now with the Nationals in town, but I still don't regularly watch games. It looks to me like there's real potential for something similar with die-hard Wizards fans.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#174 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:31 pm

pineappleheadindc wrote:It speaks volumes that we had more interest in this team - and a livelier board - during the days of Chris Whitney, Laron Profit, Juan Dixon, and (yikes) Juwan Howard. What a sad state of affairs that have befallen upon the Wizards organization.

Sorry so long of a post,

Pine


O Jahadi White.. those were the days.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#175 » by The Fax » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:26 pm

I never thought I'd say this but I would be extremely happy if Dan Snyder bought this team. At least Dan eventually got it right with the Skins by firing Vinny Cerrato and the circus. I just don't think Leonsis has the balls.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#176 » by Knighthonor » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:54 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Secretly this thread is for people to vent about the OkaRiza trade.

This. let it out...

but dont hate.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#177 » by dandridge 10 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:47 pm

Nivek wrote:I vented a bit about this on my blog.

I think the key factor in why so many looooooooooooong term fans are wondering the hell they're still fans is the crushing disappointment in Ted Leonsis. He was the guy who we expected to fix all this.


Nivek,

This was an awesome post. I would strongly recommend sending it to the Washington Post so that they can print it as an editorial.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#178 » by tontoz » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:59 pm

There is no chance Nivek's blog makes it past the mods on Ted's Take. I don't think Ted is ready to accept blame .....yet. Hopefully he will at some point. Until then we can probably expect more f ups.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#179 » by payitforward » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:24 am

Nivek wrote:For me, what rankles about the Harden story has nothing to do with Beal. I've been writing all season that I think Beal will be fine long-term. His career has started like virtually all teenage rookie guards, including Harden. What rankles is the poor planning in the front office that closed off even the possibility of this kind of move.

Because the Wizards jumped so quickly to make the Okariza deal, they couldn't properly weigh the cost/benefit of acquiring Harden because of the salary he was going to receive.

+1
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#180 » by payitforward » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:31 am

tontoz wrote:There is no chance Nivek's blog makes it past the mods on Ted's Take. I don't think Ted is ready to accept blame .....yet. Hopefully he will at some point. Until then we can probably expect more f ups.

Doubt Ted even sees the more intelligent, analytical versions of negativity. Too challenging. His gatekeepers peel those off before he weighs in.

Ted has a man-crush on... Ted. He thinks every idea he has is good, really big.

As to Ernie, think about it this way -- whenever this job ends is when he retires. He knows that; how could he not. And he's in his 60s, ready to retire. So, how can he possibly motivate himself to rebuild the FO in a 21st century manner? No way. All he does is jolly his boss. All he needs to do.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#181 » by penbeast0 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:29 am

Nivek wrote:
TGW wrote:
Nivek wrote:I vented a bit about this on my blog.

I think the key factor in why so many looooooooooooong term fans are wondering the hell they're still fans is the crushing disappointment in Ted Leonsis. He was the guy who we expected to fix all this.


Would you mind if I posted this on Ted's blog? I want him to know what someone who actually knows WTF they're doing would have treated our offseason.


Feel free. :)

And I agree completely with pine's post. This happened with me and the Orioles back when Ripken retired. I'd grown so disgusted with Peter Angelos and the way the team was being run, that when Cal hung 'em up, I stopped paying attention. I essentially fell away from baseball completely -- totally casual fan. And this from a guy who knew the O's entire 40-man roster, plus.

I'm more interested now with the Nationals in town, but I still don't regularly watch games. It looks to me like there's real potential for something similar with die-hard Wizards fans.


Me too. I was never more than a lukewarm baseball fan as it was the one sport I never played growing up (mainly basketball, football, tennis, and soccer) but was involved for a few years but Angelos turned me off and haven't gone back at all. Even quit following football when the Redskins turned into a similar dumb team though have always been a fan -- just not the fanatic I was once. Still hoop crazy partially because I still play a little and occasionally coach Special Olympics so I've stayed active with the Wiz but they've been worse than either of the other organizations for a lot longer. Ernie isn't the first GM they've had that trades picks for veterans designed to compete for an 8th pick in the draft; I've been bitching about that since Bob Ferry was GM.

I hope they get it straight but Ernie has proven he isn't the guy with a vision of competing for a title and needs to go. I'd rather be bad with a hope of getting good than mediocre with no potential transcendent player and no real hope of more than the occasional .550 season as a top end.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#182 » by hands11 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:37 am

I had the same experience with the Os.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#183 » by sashae » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:54 pm

Ted responds.

He's clearly pretty pissed about this.
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#184 » by leswizards » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:01 pm

First, we would not have gone into the luxury tax – that is simple math. Second, economics were not a factor.


That is a non denial-denial by Ted Leonsis. He never denies that the trade was turned down. Instead he denies the reasons that were offered for why he turned them down were wrong.

It begs the question if those were not Ted's reasons for turning down the trade, what were his reasons?
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Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden 

Post#185 » by leswizards » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:07 pm

We have four players in our rotation – Wall, Price, Booker and Ariza – who are not in the lineup, and Nene’s minutes are limited as he plays his way back into game shape.


Price should be nothing more than a back up. Wall's injury was known prior to the season, and the team did nothing to get a quality PG cabable of starting until Wall came back. Booker started off horrible this season. It is a shame that he is injured, but his injury allows the team to ignore how bad he was playing. It should have been known that Ariza is best used as a reserve, and complaining about his injury as if the team is missing a key piece is disingenuious. Nene's injury was known prior to the season, and all of the Wizards' depth should have been in the front court. His injury should not be affecting the team as much as it has. Complaining about injuries is a pathetic attempt to avoid seriously looking at this team's defects.

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