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Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Harden

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Post#181 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:29 am by penbeast0

Nivek wrote:
TGW wrote:
Nivek wrote:I vented a bit about this on my blog.

I think the key factor in why so many looooooooooooong term fans are wondering the hell they're still fans is the crushing disappointment in Ted Leonsis. He was the guy who we expected to fix all this.


Would you mind if I posted this on Ted's blog? I want him to know what someone who actually knows WTF they're doing would have treated our offseason.


Feel free. :)

And I agree completely with pine's post. This happened with me and the Orioles back when Ripken retired. I'd grown so disgusted with Peter Angelos and the way the team was being run, that when Cal hung 'em up, I stopped paying attention. I essentially fell away from baseball completely -- totally casual fan. And this from a guy who knew the O's entire 40-man roster, plus.

I'm more interested now with the Nationals in town, but I still don't regularly watch games. It looks to me like there's real potential for something similar with die-hard Wizards fans.


Me too. I was never more than a lukewarm baseball fan as it was the one sport I never played growing up (mainly basketball, football, tennis, and soccer) but was involved for a few years but Angelos turned me off and haven't gone back at all. Even quit following football when the Redskins turned into a similar dumb team though have always been a fan -- just not the fanatic I was once. Still hoop crazy partially because I still play a little and occasionally coach Special Olympics so I've stayed active with the Wiz but they've been worse than either of the other organizations for a lot longer. Ernie isn't the first GM they've had that trades picks for veterans designed to compete for an 8th pick in the draft; I've been bitching about that since Bob Ferry was GM.

I hope they get it straight but Ernie has proven he isn't the guy with a vision of competing for a title and needs to go. I'd rather be bad with a hope of getting good than mediocre with no potential transcendent player and no real hope of more than the occasional .550 season as a top end.
[quote="Nivek"] This post could come only from a Wizards fan. It somehow combines delusional optimism with soul-crushing pessimism.
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Post#182 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:37 am by hands11

I had the same experience with the Os.
Step by Step - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1269473&start=45&p=36843686&view=show#p36843686

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Post#183 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:54 pm by sashae

Ted responds.

He's clearly pretty pissed about this.
otto porter is depressing.
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Post#184 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:01 pm by leswizards

First, we would not have gone into the luxury tax – that is simple math. Second, economics were not a factor.


That is a non denial-denial by Ted Leonsis. He never denies that the trade was turned down. Instead he denies the reasons that were offered for why he turned them down were wrong.

It begs the question if those were not Ted's reasons for turning down the trade, what were his reasons?
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Post#185 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:07 pm by leswizards

We have four players in our rotation – Wall, Price, Booker and Ariza – who are not in the lineup, and Nene’s minutes are limited as he plays his way back into game shape.


Price should be nothing more than a back up. Wall's injury was known prior to the season, and the team did nothing to get a quality PG cabable of starting until Wall came back. Booker started off horrible this season. It is a shame that he is injured, but his injury allows the team to ignore how bad he was playing. It should have been known that Ariza is best used as a reserve, and complaining about his injury as if the team is missing a key piece is disingenuious. Nene's injury was known prior to the season, and all of the Wizards' depth should have been in the front court. His injury should not be affecting the team as much as it has. Complaining about injuries is a pathetic attempt to avoid seriously looking at this team's defects.
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Post#186 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:09 pm by GhostsOfGil

sashae wrote:Ted responds.

He's clearly pretty pissed about this.


Wat a load of ****. That post makes me so angry.

First, we would not have gone into the luxury tax – that is simple math.

TED... The current salary cap is $58 million correct? Add a maxed out contract NEXT YEAR and were at ~67 million!! As the WP article points out, we would be fine this year but with Harden's max on the books in 2013, is when we would be into the luxury tax. Not only is this worded in the most pretentious way ever, it also exposes his clear shortsightedness.

I've been contracted by Ted before and I always enjoyed working for Monumental Sports... but his tenure here has made me absolutely despise him.
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Post#187 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:45 pm by miller31time

leswizards wrote:Price should be nothing more than a back up. Wall's injury was known prior to the season, and the team did nothing to get a quality PG cabable of starting until Wall came back. Booker started off horrible this season. It is a shame that he is injured, but his injury allows the team to ignore how bad he was playing. It should have been known that Ariza is best used as a reserve, and complaining about his injury as if the team is missing a key piece is disingenuious. Nene's injury was known prior to the season, and all of the Wizards' depth should have been in the front court. His injury should not be affecting the team as much as it has. Complaining about injuries is a pathetic attempt to avoid seriously looking at this team's defects.


It's funny. My football team is the Ravens. Baltimore has had a crapload of injuries to key players this year and it has dramatically affected our performance thus far (still a good team but not nearly as good as we could have been).

The Ravens lose key players and we are currently on a 2-game losing streak. Solution - major organizational change (firing our Offensive Coordinator). To this point, I haven't heard a singular word from anyone in the organization about our injury situation. They accept that it's a part of the game and instead look at what's right and wrong with the team. Losing is unacceptable and excuses aren't an option.

Then I look at the Wizards. There are major problems with this organization. Injuries have indeed been a problem but that's only a surface problem - there's issues more important that are plaguing us.

Ted's answer? Blame the injuries and turn a blind eye to anything else.

And therein lies the difference between 1st-class organizations like the Baltimore Ravens and loser-franchises like the Washington Wizards.
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Post#188 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:51 pm by DMVleGeND

leswizards wrote:
First, we would not have gone into the luxury tax – that is simple math. Second, economics were not a factor.


That is a non denial-denial by Ted Leonsis. He never denies that the trade was turned down. Instead he denies the reasons that were offered for why he turned them down were wrong.

It begs the question if those were not Ted's reasons for turning down the trade, what were his reasons?


THIS. Why the hell did he turn down the trade then??? Was he overvaluing our players.
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Post#189 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:01 pm by Upper Decker

leswizards wrote:We have four players in our rotation – Wall, Price, Booker and Ariza – who are not in the lineup, and Nene’s minutes are limited as he plays his way back into game shape.


Wall = average NBA player
Price = sucks
Booker = I think he sucks, but none the less he's barely an NBA rotation player
Ariza = barely an NBA rotation player

Nene's averaged 26 MPG last year and is now only playing 21 MPG. Not a huge drop off...

Who here believes the anonymous source more than Ted?
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Post#190 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:05 pm by Upper Decker

miller31time wrote:It's funny. My football team is the Ravens...


I stopped reading right there.
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Post#191 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:05 pm by LyricalRico

DMVleGeND wrote:
leswizards wrote:
First, we would not have gone into the luxury tax – that is simple math. Second, economics were not a factor.


That is a non denial-denial by Ted Leonsis. He never denies that the trade was turned down. Instead he denies the reasons that were offered for why he turned them down were wrong.

It begs the question if those were not Ted's reasons for turning down the trade, what were his reasons?


THIS. Why the hell did he turn down the trade then??? Was he overvaluing our players.


Didn't Lee's article cite another source that denied the report and said OKC was also looking for an "established player" (or something along those lines) but the Wizards didn't have anyone to give?

For what it's worth, Sam Smith was on Mr Tony's show yesterday and he thinks the reported Harden-for-Beal+Singleton deal was never actually on the table, at least not as something that was at a point where OKC was waiting on Ted to accept or reject.

Smith thinks there were certainly discussions between OKC and many teams, and that the Wizards were likely one of them. But he felt that the final package that OKC got from Houston (a 20 ppg scorer in his prime, 2 potential lottery picks, and another promising young player) makes it highly unlikely that OKC was actually about to pull the trigger on a Harden for Beal+Singleton trade.
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Post#192 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:06 pm by Zonkerbl

Well, he says he can't comment. I guess one thing he can comment on is that they certainly did not turn down the trade for lux tax reasons.

He can't say if they turned down the trade. Notice the way he worded it. "The Post said we "turned down" a trade for economic reasons. That is bogus. Economics had nothing to do with anything."

I imagine the truth is something like: OKC (calling EG): "Hey, how about Harden for Beal and whatever?" EG: "Hm that's interesting. I would consider that." OKC: "Fine, but I'm going to keep fishing on my end for something better. I'll let you know."

Next day: OKC: "Nevermind EG! I got a better offer from Houston!"

Next year: OKC source to WaPo reporter: "You know what's hilarious is we were talking to EG about sending Harden to the wizards!"
WaPo: "Holy Cow Ted turned down a trade for Harden!?!?!?!"
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Post#193 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:20 pm by DANNYLANDOVER

Wow! This just confirms Michael Lee's story. So Ted did actually reject a trade for James Harden. Now I know who to believe. If he doesn't think Harden is a max contract player, I pray Wall doesn't blindly get one next year. Harden is only a year older and a much better player right now. Ted must think Wizards fans are all sheeple. I don't think he's cheap, but the management of this team lacks foresight.
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Post#194 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:26 pm by barelyawake

Harden is probably my favorite nba player currently. Harden for Beal was my ideal trade. That said, no way I give Harden a fifth year and cement him as our cornerstone. That means that any other star, including re-signing Wall, is off the table. Now, if Harden was willing to sign for four, then it's awful GMing. Since he isn't, I'm unsure what we are arguing about.

Wall, Beal, Nene, Serphin, Top three pick.

That's better than all the line-ups you wanted. And we will have expiring contracts to trade along with young players, after we are playoff bound (and they have cred). Tanking this year is a godsend and going to create probably the best wizards team we have ever seen. I have zero idea why people are jumping off right when we are poised to have a watchable team.
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Post#195 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:37 pm by closg00

Because Ernie will be making the drafting/off-season decisions Barely, isn't that enough reason to be worried?
Guys on a message board could do a better job managing the Wizards than Ernie Grunfeld.
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Post#196 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:44 pm by GhostsOfGil

barelyawake wrote:Harden is probably my favorite nba player currently. Harden for Beal was my ideal trade. That said, no way I give Harden a fifth year and cement him as our cornerstone. That means that any other star, including re-signing Wall, is off the table. Now, if Harden was willing to sign for four, then it's awful GMing. Since he isn't, I'm unsure what we are arguing about.

Wall, Beal, Nene, Serphin, Top three pick.

That's better than all the line-ups you wanted. And we will have expiring contracts to trade along with young players, after we are playoff bound (and they have cred). Tanking this year is a godsend and going to create probably the best wizards team we have ever seen. I have zero idea why people are jumping off right when we are poised to have a watchable team.


Because we were poised to have a watchable team last year. And the year before that. Instead in succession, Ernie traded the 5th pick, drafted Jan Velsey and crippled our cap space with role players.
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Post#197 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:20 pm by barelyawake

No, we were never poised to have a great team. We needed to tank multiple years to get there. Tanking was the right choice. And our cap space was spent on expiring contracts. Vesley was a bad pick. Happens. I remember just me and Dat screaming about trading the fifth pick at the time. Most here were onboard with that idea, and wanted Beal.

But, obviously we have been tanking. And obviously, after losing our two best players, management added on another year of tanking. Am I saying EG is a good GM? No, but I don't understand the bitching while we are adding top picks (like we needed to do). We needed to lose... a lot. Stars win championships. We are now poised to draft and trade for them. Relax. Next year will be good, if Wall stays healthy.
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Post#198 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:38 pm by llcc25

barelyawake wrote:No, we were never poised to have a great team. We needed to tank multiple years to get there. Tanking was the right choice. And our cap space was spent on expiring contracts. Vesley was a bad pick. Happens. I remember just me and Dat screaming about trading the fifth pick at the time. Most here were onboard with that idea, and wanted Beal.

But, obviously we have been tanking. And obviously, after losing our two best players, management added on another year of tanking. Am I saying EG is a good GM? No, but I don't understand the bitching while we are adding top picks (like we needed to do). We needed to lose... a lot. Stars win championships. We are now poised to draft and trade for them. Relax. Next year will be good, if Wall stays healthy.
barelyawake wrote:No, we were never poised to have a great team. We needed to tank multiple years to get there. Tanking was the right choice. And our cap space was spent on expiring contracts. Vesley was a bad pick. Happens. I remember just me and Dat screaming about trading the fifth pick at the time. Most here were onboard with that idea, and wanted Beal.

But, obviously we have been tanking. And obviously, after losing our two best players, management added on another year of tanking. Am I saying EG is a good GM? No, but I don't understand the bitching while we are adding top picks (like we needed to do). We needed to lose... a lot. Stars win championships. We are now poised to draft and trade for them. Relax. Next year will be good, if Wall stays healthy.
barelyawake wrote:No, we were never poised to have a great team. We needed to tank multiple years to get there. Tanking was the right choice. And our cap space was spent on expiring contracts. Vesley was a bad pick. Happens. I remember just me and Dat screaming about trading the fifth pick at the time. Most here were onboard with that idea, and wanted Beal.

But, obviously we have been tanking. And obviously, after losing our two best players, management added on another year of tanking. Am I saying EG is a good GM? No, but I don't understand the bitching while we are adding top picks (like we needed to do). We needed to lose... a lot. Stars win championships. We are now poised to draft and trade for them. Relax. Next year will be good, if Wall stays healthy.


Dude, I'm all for tanking and rebuilding with high draft picks but that strategy is worthless if the guy in charge of making those picks is choosing the Veseley's of this world over guys like Leonard and Thompson. Also, if we'er gonna keep on making trades where we get hosed in using valuable cap space to add marginal talent, we will never see the daylight of a winning team. Past performance if best indicator of future results and as long as EG is in charge, we are doomed - its as simple as that...
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Post#199 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:39 pm by TGW

barelyawake wrote:No, we were never poised to have a great team. We needed to tank multiple years to get there. Tanking was the right choice. And our cap space was spent on expiring contracts. Vesley was a bad pick. Happens. I remember just me and Dat screaming about trading the fifth pick at the time. Most here were onboard with that idea, and wanted Beal.

But, obviously we have been tanking. And obviously, after losing our two best players, management added on another year of tanking. Am I saying EG is a good GM? No, but I don't understand the bitching while we are adding top picks (like we needed to do). We needed to lose... a lot. Stars win championships. We are now poised to draft and trade for them. Relax. Next year will be good, if Wall stays healthy.


Nope...don't agree at all. Obvious tanking? Then why trade for Ariza and Okafor? I'm not buying it at all.

These moves scream of lack of planning.
milellie111 wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Post#200 Re: Michael Lee: Wizards Brass turned down Ha
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:45 pm by AFM

Ted is such a goober.
WizarDynasty wrote:Ted is trying to transform you from a bullet .....piece of metal shot from a gin into a wizard....wise.... wisest fans in the .ba. board has a long way to go but ee have wise wizard posters to guide into Ted the savior rescue operation.
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