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Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)

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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#321 » by BigA » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:17 pm

TGW wrote:
tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:I would still demand that he be fired for his incompetence. That fact that he lucked into a mulligan doesn't excuse his incompetence last offseason. I'm just saying we may as well benefit from his incompetence leading us to another tank season and another high pick. Then just dump EG and hire a real GM to complete the rebuild.




His incompetence is the reason why i don't think he will be able to take a lemon and make lemonade. Your moves operate under the assumption that EG can admit the Okariza trade/Vesely pick were bad ideas. I doubt this is the case.


Exactly. Just a few months ago, they were claiming they were making a "clever" trade. I don't see how a egotistical guy like Ted Leonsis is going to just take that back.


Ted says all kinds of things that he goes back on later.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#322 » by BigA » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:19 pm

nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:
tontoz wrote:His incompetence is the reason why i don't think he will be able to take a lemon and make lemonade. Your moves operate under the assumption that EG can admit the Okariza trade/Vesely pick were bad ideas. I doubt this is the case.


Exactly. Just a few months ago, they were claiming they were making a "clever" trade. I don't see how a egotistical guy like Ted Leonsis is going to just take that back.

I dunno. EG could spin it as if it was the plan all along. Instead of pay Rashard Lewis not to play, the plan was to pay the same amount of money to Okafor and Ariza to play 2/3rds of a season and then flip them for expirings.


I think I remember around the time of Okariza, people saying "well, maybe the real plan is to flip them, so this perhaps isn't as disasterous as it looks."
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#323 » by nuposse04 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:33 pm

nate33 wrote:^
Follow that up by trading Seraphin + Vesely + top 10 protected 1st for Cousins.

Then see if we can trade cap space straight up for Ryan Anderson (who plays the same position as Antonio Davis and may therefore not be a good fit given his contract.) Next year:

PG: Wall/Crawford
SG: Beal/Crawford
SF: Shabazz/Webster
PF: Nene/Anderson/Booker
C: Cousins/Nene

And cap room to spare.


If we trade for Cousins, it'll only because we're playing well and Wall+Nene would be a good for Cousins mental state. I'd also swap C. Singleton and Vesely in your original proposal We're not gonna get Shabazz either if we start playing well. I think like a top 7 protected pick is a bit more reasonable. I also doubt the Pelicans would be so fast to get rid of Anderson. I'd take a gamble with Minny if they still see Love in their future (although he's hurt right now). Maybe Crawford+Booker+lotto protected 14th pick for D. Williams+Luke

Wall/Luke/Tomas
Beal/Temple
Webster/Whoever/Ariza
Nene/D. Williams/Vesely
Cousins/Nene/Vesely

One can dream I guess. :-?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#324 » by daSwami » Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:09 pm

BigA wrote:I think I remember around the time of Okariza, people saying "well, maybe the real plan is to flip them, so this perhaps isn't as disasterous as it looks."


I was actually in this camp, and I still hold on to a thread of hope that this whole debacle might not look so bad in a couple of years. Going into next season the Wiz should have some tradable assets in a (hopefully) healthy John Wall as well as the large expiring contracts of Okariza. I'm hoping that Wall's value alone might be enough to attach a couple of expirings to. I'd also be ok with cutting bait on some of our 'young core' players (esp Vesely and Crawford) with the exception of Beal. Dunno, I think we have some options that, in the hands of a competent GM (read: not EG), could be parlayed into something decent. And who knows? Maybe our draft pick this off-season will pan out.

My biggest fear is that Ted won't want to part with EG because he's the guy whose 'plan' we're executing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#325 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:25 pm

daSwami wrote:
BigA wrote:I think I remember around the time of Okariza, people saying "well, maybe the real plan is to flip them, so this perhaps isn't as disasterous as it looks."


I was actually in this camp, and I still hold on to a thread of hope that this whole debacle might not look so bad in a couple of years. Going into next season the Wiz should have some tradable assets in a (hopefully) healthy John Wall as well as the large expiring contracts of Okariza.


Same here. I've always said that I wanted to see the whole situation play out - first get everyone on the court healthy and see how far they can go, and then see what the Summer 2013 trade possibilities are. The first half of that has been a flop, but the second half could be interesting.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#326 » by jivelikenice » Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:45 pm

No reason to deal Okafor now. He's been steadily playing better as the season has progressed and will have a lot more value this summer as an expiring player, who is more than just dead weight.

Ariza on the other hand......Trade him for whatever you can get unless he's given an indication that he hates it so much here that he's going to opt out.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#327 » by tontoz » Tue Jan 8, 2013 9:14 pm

I have a higher view of Crawford than many here but realistically his trade value now is as high as it will ever be. With Wall coming back his minutes will take a big hit which may not sit well with him. He has improved each year and has over a year left on a cheap rookie deal.

Basically it is now or never if they want to trade him. If they wait past the feb deadline i think his trade value drops a lot.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#328 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jan 8, 2013 9:47 pm

An effort to involve us in the Gay-to-Phoenix scenario...

TRADE 1

Wizards trade: Ariza and Crawford
Wolves trade: Ridnour and Barea

Why? Gives Minny help on the wings and gets them out of the last year of Barea's deal. Gives us a better backup for Wall and another trade chip.

TRADE 2

Wizards trade: Barea and 2013 2nd
Wizards receive: Wes Johnson and LAL 2015 first

Suns trade: Dudley, S.Brown, Johnson, and LAL 2015 first
Suns receive: Gay and WAS 2013 2nd

Grizzlies trade: Rudy Gay
Grizzlies receive: Barea, Dudley, and S. Brown

Why? Gives Memphis the depth and cap relief they need, sends a big name to Phoenix, and helps Washington's cap plus adds a future pick. Big question is would the Suns be willing to add that much salary.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#329 » by nate33 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:32 pm

jivelikenice wrote:No reason to deal Okafor now. He's been steadily playing better as the season has progressed and will have a lot more value this summer as an expiring player, who is more than just dead weight.

This is not true. Players have value either because they are good, OR because they are an expiring contract. The two together aren't cumulative. Basically, players who aren't worth their salary become more valuable as their contract becomes shorter. Players who are worth their salary become less valuable as their contract becomes shorter.

The reason to deal him now is specifically BECAUSE he is playing better. That's why teams might want him. He may actually be worth his current salary.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#330 » by hands11 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:14 am

nate33 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:No reason to deal Okafor now. He's been steadily playing better as the season has progressed and will have a lot more value this summer as an expiring player, who is more than just dead weight.

This is not true. Players have value either because they are good, OR because they are an expiring contract. The two together aren't cumulative. Basically, players who aren't worth their salary become more valuable as their contract becomes shorter. Players who are worth their salary become less valuable as their contract becomes shorter.

The reason to deal him now is specifically BECAUSE he is playing better. That's why teams might want him. He may actually be worth his current salary.


I don't see why that would be true. I see how both can easily be true. Not an either/or.

He is more valuable playing better in both situations. His contract getting shorter means its easier to him dump sooner if he starts to sink later or you get the inside track on signing him to a more resonable contract once his expires if he is staying productive. Not like he is going to play better enough to get extended at 10M a year again. I would guess the team that signs him next gets him for around 5-6M/year over 2-3 years. That might be something they want.

Right now the Wizard hold these options. They can cash in now or let it play out. And until I get to see what they look like all together, I wouldn't cash out on Okafor just yet.

My guess is that they are not making a move now. They want to see what everything they assembled looks like together. That could raise his value more or they might like it and build from what they have.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#331 » by Nivek » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:06 am

Except, Okafor really isn't playing any better.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#332 » by hands11 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:17 am

Nivek wrote:Except, Okafor really isn't playing any better.



He started off with the team playing terrible for Nov. He shot .404% and averaged 5.8 rebound in 22 minutes. He looked terrible out there. Not all his fault. The line ups sucked because of injuries and he was on a new team that he hadn't found his grove with. And because of the line up, he was being asked to do more then he should be asked offensively.

Since Sat 12/22 he posted his first double double. Since then he posted 5 in 9 games.

Since Sat 12/15 he has posted 8 double digit rebounding game in 13 games and missed double digits with 9 in two others. And one of those games was 18 rebounds.

And beyond the numbers, you can see it with you eyes he is playing better.

Now if he would only shoot a FT. My God. How does something shoot 1-7 from the line. But he has always been a bad FT shooter. Why, I don't know. You think someone would fix whatever is wrong by now.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#333 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:57 am

hes got value to contenders. i think we could flip him for some expiring contracts and maybe a team who does not have great care for draft picks.
I think if we want to dump him, we need to look at the bucks, the hawks and maybe the lakers. if we can get in to a 3 way of some kind that would be good to.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#334 » by dangermouse » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:30 am

Warrios are another team who may need the services of a shot blocking/rebounding bigman, depending on the health of Bogut.

And of course Dallas who need a player like that badly.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#335 » by SizzlinSimms » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:34 am

I can't see any value for any Wizard players. It's extremely sad.

Maybe Seraphin. Other than that teams could find the same talent for far less money (Okafor, Nene, Ariza).
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#336 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:46 am

Yeah but who would those two teams give us? i don't see the contracts to make a trade?
what aobut this,. ?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bj5jnbr
hawks get : Okafur and Ariza
Wiz get : Udrih, Dalembert, Morrow, and Petro
Bucks get : Harris and Zaza.
I'm not sure about picks.... not sure what to ask for picks wise.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#337 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:30 pm

SizzlinSimms wrote:I can't see any value for any Wizard players. It's extremely sad.

Maybe Seraphin. Other than that teams could find the same talent for far less money (Okafor, Nene, Ariza).

Going by my Trade Board thread, it seems that a lot of people (fans, anyway) would be interested in acquiring Okafor for an expiring contract. There were about 4 or 5 plausible scenarios proposed by other teams' fans that I would do if I was GM of the Wizards.

The best scenario was:
Brooklyn trades: Humprhies
Brooklyn receives: Okafor

Charlotte trades: Diop
Charlotte receives: Humphries

Washington trades: Okafor
Washington receives: Diop

We save $6M instantly (well, actually $3M after prorating) and we get out of the last year of Okafor's contract.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#338 » by dangermouse » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:02 pm

Warriors could send us Biedrins and Jarret Jack and a first. We'd cut Jack who returns to GSW after the waiting period. Biedrins contract is the same length but he only gets paid $9m a year flat. Not ideal, but we do get that first.

Mavs could send us Kaman who is expiring, provided they believe the Kaman/Dirk pairing isnt going to get them anywhere. Personally i dont think it will, they need a better defender and rebounder next to Dirk. If they add Roddy Beaubois to the deal it makes the trade work. Unfortunately he is also expiring, if he was still on that cheap deal, it would be perfect.

It would be great if they were desperate enough to include Crowder, thereby giving us a do-over for the last draft, but that ain't happenin. Maybe the pressure Dirk's latest comments put on them will give them an itchy trigger finger, though. You never know.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#339 » by deneem4 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:26 pm

Trade nene. or boozer/bellinelli (maybe have to add martin or crawford)
Why for wizards: boozer shoots alot and rebounds better... best pick and roll big man shooter and bellimelli 3pt specialist
Why for bulls: Chicago can trim down under the cap and chicago fans dont like boozer...nene defense is better...adding crawford gives the bulls another player that can create his own shot

Nene/(martin or crawford) for zach....
the grizzlies want to trade him to get under cap and need a wing shooter
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#340 » by Nivek » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:41 pm

deneem4 wrote:Trade nene. or boozer/bellinelli (maybe have to add martin or crawford)
Why for wizards: boozer shoots alot and rebounds better... best pick and roll big man shooter and bellimelli 3pt specialist
Why for bulls: Chicago can trim down under the cap and chicago fans dont like boozer...nene defense is better...adding crawford gives the bulls another player that can create his own shot

Nene/(martin or crawford) for zach....
the grizzlies want to trade him to get under cap and need a wing shooter


Nene is better than Boozer, and Boozer costs more.

Randolph is better than Nene, but Nene would likely be a suitable replacement for him with what they're doing down there. And Nene costs less, so that would get them under the luxury tax threshold. Memphis is so close to the threshold, though that they could probably give away one of their scrubs to someone under the tax threshold and avoid it. Randolph is a year older than Nene and is more expensive, which makes a bit less sense for Wizards.

The better move would for Memphis would be to swap out Gay for a SF who plays better and costs less.
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