Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)

[jivelikenice]

Its just soo difficult to find that type of prototype SF...

These days, I think SF is about the easiest position to fill. Look at the recent acquisitions. In 2011, Klay Thompson went 11th, Kawhi Leonard went 15th, and Chandler Parsons went 38th. In 2010, Gordon Hayward went 9th, Paul George went 10th. In 2009, Chase Buddinger went 44th and Danny Green went 46th.

Besides, with Wall as our PG and assuming Beal improves, we don't really need a shot creator like Pierce or Gay at SF. All we really need is a 3&D SF in the Kawhi Leonard mold. I'd much rather pay Martell Webster $2M a year to do that than Gay $17M a year to do the same thing with a few more low-percentage one-on-one shots thrown in.

I think a lot depends on Wall. If he becomes a better scorer, in addition to playmaker i can buy that, but we have to see if he's capable of that.

The SFs you listed are good players, but none are the type you can give the ball to and say, "go get a bucket", except for Paul George. If I thought there was a go to SF type in this upcoming draft, I'd change my opinion.

[Ruzious]

Gay's always been a phenominal athlete but an under-achiever, and he's gone downhill when most players are improving at his age. The temptation is to say - well, we can get him to change. The Wiz are the last team I'd think an inefficient player would magically change in. Maybe it would happen for him on a team like San Antonio - but not here. Pass.

[Dat2U]

Its just soo difficult to find that type of prototype SF...

These days, I think SF is about the easiest position to fill. Look at the recent acquisitions. In 2011, Klay Thompson went 11th, Kawhi Leonard went 15th, and Chandler Parsons went 38th. In 2010, Gordon Hayward went 9th, Paul George went 10th. In 2009, Chase Buddinger went 44th and Danny Green went 46th.

Besides, with Wall as our PG and assuming Beal improves, we don't really need a shot creator like Pierce or Gay at SF. All we really need is a 3&D SF in the Kawhi Leonard mold. I'd much rather pay Martell Webster $2M a year to do that than Gay $17M a year to do the same thing with a few more low-percentage one-on-one shots thrown in.

Klay Thompson is a SG (and he isn't very good yet)
Chase Budinger is a backup (and nothing more)
Danny Green gets most of his minutes at SG

I'd disagree strongly on SF being the easiest position to fill. Both SG & SF are the hardest positions to find quality starters IMO. Depth? Sure you can probably get an average to below average wing pretty easily, but finding a solidly above average SF is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

Martell Webster is the perfect starting SF for a 15-20 win team. I don't think a team with any serious aspirations is going to have Martell as a starter getting big minutes on a nightly basis.

[nate33]

Its just soo difficult to find that type of prototype SF...

These days, I think SF is about the easiest position to fill. Look at the recent acquisitions. In 2011, Klay Thompson went 11th, Kawhi Leonard went 15th, and Chandler Parsons went 38th. In 2010, Gordon Hayward went 9th, Paul George went 10th. In 2009, Chase Buddinger went 44th and Danny Green went 46th.

Besides, with Wall as our PG and assuming Beal improves, we don't really need a shot creator like Pierce or Gay at SF. All we really need is a 3&D SF in the Kawhi Leonard mold. I'd much rather pay Martell Webster $2M a year to do that than Gay $17M a year to do the same thing with a few more low-percentage one-on-one shots thrown in.

Klay Thompson is a SG (and he isn't very good yet)
Chase Budinger is a backup (and nothing more)
Danny Green gets most of his minutes at SG

I'd disagree strongly on SF being the easiest position to fill. Both SG & SF are the hardest positions to find quality starters IMO. Depth? Sure you can probably get an average to below average wing pretty easily, but finding a solidly above average SF is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

Martell Webster is the perfect starting SF for a 15-20 win team. I don't think a team with any serious aspirations is going to have Martell as a starter getting big minutes on a nightly basis.

Mind you that I've only referenced players drafted in the last 2-1/2 years. Very few players emerge as quality starters so soon after being drafted. Those guys will be even better in a year or two.

But my greater point isn't that the list of guys I mentioned are really good, it's that Gay isn't really good. His per minute numbers are identical to Webster's across the board, except he takes another 6.9 2PA's per 36, making just 2.9 of them (that's a TS% of 42% by the way). Basically, it would be like telling Martell Webster to do exactly what he has been doing, plus throw up 7 additional ill-advised shots a game Jordan Crawford style.

Sorry, but I don't think an extra 7 bad shots per game is worth an extra $15M a year.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, you'd think that SF would be an easy position to fill, but the last few years, there's really been a shortage of quality all-around 3's. In a few years, that'll change - with Bazz coming out this year - and the 2 phenoms coming out the year after.

[Dat2U]

Nate, I just looked at Gay's numbers this year. Yep, he's been horrible. Your right, I'd pass.

[nate33]

Yeah, you'd think that SF would be an easy position to fill, but the last few years, there's really been a shortage of quality all-around 3's. In a few years, that'll change - with Bazz coming out this year - and the 2 phenoms coming out the year after.

Ruzious, do you think Shabazz projects to be a SF or a SG? Draft Express has him at 6'4.5" without shoes, though that's at age 18 so he might grow a bit more. He does have a borderline freakish wingspan of 6'11.25".

For reference, here are the no shoes heights and wingspans of other notable swing men:
James Harden: 6'4" - 6'10.75"
Danny Green: 6'5.25" - 6'10"
Josh Howard: 6'5.25" - 7'2"
Tyreke Evans: 6'4" - 6'11.25"

[tontoz]

Yeah, you'd think that SF would be an easy position to fill, but the last few years, there's really been a shortage of quality all-around 3's. In a few years, that'll change - with Bazz coming out this year - and the 2 phenoms coming out the year after.

Ruzious, do you think Shabazz projects to be a SF or a SG? Draft Express has him at 6'4.5" without shoes, though that's at age 18 so he might grow a bit more. He does have a borderline freakish wingspan of 6'11.25".

For reference, here are the no shoes heights and standing reaches of other notable swing men:
James Harden: 6'4" - 6'10.75"
Danny Green: 6'5.25" - 6'10"
Josh Howard: 6'5.25" - 7'2"
Tyreke Evans: 6'4" - 6'11.25"

Obviously those are the wingspans, not standing reach. FWIW Bazz's standing reach was measured at 8'8, only 1/2" less than MKG.

[Ruzious]

Some have Bazz as a guard, but I think he's more of a forward, because he's a strong thick-bodied player and as mentioned - certainly has the length to play the 3. Ideally, I'd like him playing the 3 on a team with 2 bigs who are very good defensive rebounders, because he's so good in scoring in transition - which is kinda strange because he's not a super athlete. Maybe it's that he wants to score so badly that he can't wait to get the ball back on offense.

[TheKingOfVa360]

This is from ESPN in the top 10 trade chips article

5. Jordan Crawford (16.58 PER)| Washington Wizards

Crawford
The 24-year-old leads the Wizards in scoring, is playing the best ball of his career and still has another full season remaining on his bargain rookie contract. Why would Washington consider trading him? For one, it is already heavily invested in Bradley Beal as its 2-guard of the future.

Secondly, while very talented offensively, Crawford lacks size and hurts the Wizards on the other end of the court. Finally, his trade value might never be higher. Might a team like Memphis consider a deal that involves Rudy Gay for Crawford, Chris Singleton and Emeka Okafor? It'd save the Grizzlies' the $19 million-plus owed to Gay in 2014-15 and plug a few key holes, all while giving the Wizards a projected starting five of Wall, Beal, Gay, Kevin Seraphin and Nene.

Good fits: Timberwolves, Grizzlies, Jazz

How do you guys feel about that Gay for Crawford, Singleton, and Okafor trade? I think Gay eats up way too much cash and is a gunner. But he is a local kid and might need a change of scenery. I would say no only because he is owed too much money

[popper]

This is from ESPN in the top 10 trade chips article

5. Jordan Crawford (16.58 PER)| Washington Wizards

Crawford
The 24-year-old leads the Wizards in scoring, is playing the best ball of his career and still has another full season remaining on his bargain rookie contract. Why would Washington consider trading him? For one, it is already heavily invested in Bradley Beal as its 2-guard of the future.

Secondly, while very talented offensively, Crawford lacks size and hurts the Wizards on the other end of the court. Finally, his trade value might never be higher. Might a team like Memphis consider a deal that involves Rudy Gay for Crawford, Chris Singleton and Emeka Okafor? It'd save the Grizzlies' the $19 million-plus owed to Gay in 2014-15 and plug a few key holes, all while giving the Wizards a projected starting five of Wall, Beal, Gay, Kevin Seraphin and Nene.

Good fits: Timberwolves, Grizzlies, Jazz

How do you guys feel about that Gay for Crawford, Singleton, and Okafor trade? I think Gay eats up way too much cash and is a gunner. But he is a local kid and might need a change of scenery. I would say no only because he is owed too much money

I wouldn't do it. It's already been mentioned that Gay is playing poorly this year and Okafor has value above and beyond what's proposed here. He's a solid rebounding, defending, shot blocking big. A potential contender is going to want him badly at some point this year.

[nate33]

I don't have any problem in giving up Crawford or Singleton, since I don't consider them part of our future. I just have a problem with the notion of going after Gay in the first place. As I pointed out above, Gay's numbers are identical to Webster's if Webster decided to jack up 7 additional bad shots per game at a TS% of 43%.

I think the best move involving a Gay trade would be to be a third party in the transaction where we give up Ariza for an expiring contract. The trade would look like this:

Memphis trades: Gay
Memphis receives: Ariza + crappy expiring contract A

Washington trades: Ariza
Washington receives: crappy expiring contract B

Team X trades: crappy expiring contract A + crappy expiring contract B
Team X receives: Gay

[LyricalRico]

Memphis trades: Gay
Memphis receives: Ariza + crappy expiring contract A

Washington trades: Ariza
Washington receives: crappy expiring contract B

Team X trades: crappy expiring contract A + crappy expiring contract B
Team X receives: Gay

Post some similar deals over the last few pages, although they didn't necessarily bring in all expirings. Here's my fave:

An effort to involve us in the Gay-to-Phoenix scenario...

TRADE 1

Wizards trade: Ariza and Crawford
Wolves trade: Ridnour and Barea

Why? Gives Minny help on the wings and gets them out of the last year of Barea's deal. Gives us a better backup for Wall and another trade chip.

TRADE 2

Wizards trade: Barea and 2013 2nd
Wizards receive: Wes Johnson and LAL 2015 first

Suns trade: Dudley, S.Brown, Johnson, and LAL 2015 first
Suns receive: Gay and WAS 2013 2nd

Grizzlies trade: Rudy Gay
Grizzlies receive: Barea, Dudley, and S. Brown

Why? Gives Memphis the depth and cap relief they need, sends a big name to Phoenix, and helps Washington's cap plus adds a future pick. Big question is would the Suns be willing to add that much salary.

[miller31time]

I'd be pretty tempted to trade Okafor/Ariza/Crawford for Gay/Ellington. I really do believe Gay can play better than he currently is -- something along the lines of 20/6/3 with a PER of 19 or 20. And yes, even that isn't worth a max contract but this team could use some talent right now and Gay has the ability to put up those numbers.

[deneem4]

If we was to get gay..I think nene should be traded because he cant play enough minutes to be truly valuable. ..
play gay at pf...Sorta like how the knicks is with carmelo on the slower bigs downlow
Okafor can average a double double with rudy at pf..and hes an aggressive big so he can control the paint given the space

I think this line up would be best if we acquire gay for nene/Martin
Starters
Wall... b+ defender/ b- rebounder/ b scorer /a+ passer
Beal... c+ defender/ c- rebounder/ a- scorer/ b passer
Singelton...a- defender/c+ rebounder/ c- scorer/ c- passer
Gay....c+ defender/ b rebounder/ a- scorer/ b- passer
Okafor... a- defender/ a- rebounder/ c+ scorer/ d passer


What you think?

[tontoz]

If we was to get gay..

I lol'd

[nate33]

If we was to get gay..I think nene should be traded and play gay at pf...
Sorta like how the knicks is with carmelo on the slower bigs downlow
Okafor can average a double double with rudy at pf..and hes an aggressive big so he can control the paint given the space
I think this line up would be best if we acquire gay for nene
Starters
Wall... b+ defender/ b- rebounder/ b scorer /a+ passer
Beal... c+ defender/ c- rebounder/ a- scorer/ b passer
Singelton...a- defender/c+ rebounder/ c- scorer/ c- passer
Gay....c+ defender/ b rebounder/ a- scorer/ b- passer
Okafor... a- defender/ a- rebounder/ c+ scorer/ d passer

What you think?

If anything, Singleton is more of a PF than Gay is.

[deneem4]

If we was to get gay..I think nene should be traded and play gay at pf...
Sorta like how the knicks is with carmelo on the slower bigs downlow
Okafor can average a double double with rudy at pf..and hes an aggressive big so he can control the paint given the space
I think this line up would be best if we acquire gay for nene
Starters
Wall... b+ defender/ b- rebounder/ b scorer /a+ passer
Beal... c+ defender/ c- rebounder/ a- scorer/ b passer
Singelton...a- defender/c+ rebounder/ c- scorer/ c- passer
Gay....c+ defender/ b rebounder/ a- scorer/ b- passer
Okafor... a- defender/ a- rebounder/ c+ scorer/ d passer

What you think?

If anything, Singleton is more of a PF than Gay is.

Yea i know but on offense the wiz can use gay as the mismatch as pf and have singleton on the wing like a sf...he shot 34% last yr from the 3...with gay penatrating it can make for some nice kick outs... (if gay somehow thinks to pass)

[Nivek]

If Gay is the PF, who's going to rebound the ball?

[Ruzious]

If Gay is the PF, who's going to rebound the ball?

Maybe this guy? http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbd ... ja01d.html

Sorry.