Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)
Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico
Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
- 20MexicanosIn1Van
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
Ariza, Okafor, and Pau all expire at the same time right? If so I'd make that trade. We'd have the best passing starting frontcourt in the NBA.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
gambitx777 wrote:Here is the thing, i think we need to realize that NENE is a ticking time bomb. he could blow any day now. we need a big man who can put up some point and rebound and hump can do that. I think we move crawford at some point as well so getting brooks would then make sense. Plus i feel that there are good players to be had late in this draft. That pick will be in the early 20's and around there you can still get some good shooters like Tim Hardaway Jr.and Doug McDermott.
I think you misunderstood on Nene. I would entertain a deal for him, but I don't see them making any major deal unless they get back a piece that they envision being a third building block to go with Wall & Beal. We have a lotto pick this upcoming draft, multiple 2nds, and Satoransky overseas, so I don't see adding a mid first rd pick as a necessity or a desire of this FO. This team is playing better because they have a good mix of youth and vets. They're not going to trade those vets for picks or mediocre talent just for the sake of it. If a legit third piece can't be had, why not just ride it out, especially with Okafor and Ariza being expiring deals holding more value in the offseason.
Nene is a ticking time bomb, but he does add leadership and a veteran presence. It would be a bad message to this group of players if you deal him for an expiring and frankly, nobody will offer an expiring for him.
Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
VintaGe36 wrote:Trade Ariza/Okafor to LAL for Pau Gasol
Wall
Beal
Webster
Nene
Gasol
I think it's redundant to have Nene and Gasol together. Both are good offensive bigs who are suspect rebounders. I think you want to have one of them and pair him with a "grunt" like Okafor.
That said, I can see the merit in trading Ariza + Okafor for Gasol. With the right teammates and system Gasol is the better player. But I would only do so if we had a Nene trade lined up. If we could pull off something like: Nene + Crawford for Odom + Bledsoe, and then make the Okafor for Gasol trade, we'd be in business. Gasol would replace Nene. Bledsoe would be an upgrade over Crawford. And we'd have the cap room this summer to go find a stopgap replacement for Okafor (while hopefully drafting a grunt center of the future).
Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
nate33 wrote:VintaGe36 wrote:Trade Ariza/Okafor to LAL for Pau Gasol
Wall
Beal
Webster
Nene
Gasol
I think it's redundant to have Nene and Gasol together. Both are good offensive bigs who are suspect rebounders. I think you want to have one of them and pair him with a "grunt" like Okafor.
That said, I can see the merit in trading Ariza + Okafor for Gasol. With the right teammates and system Gasol is the better player. But I would only do so if we had a Nene trade lined up. If we could pull off something like: Nene + Crawford for Odom + Bledsoe, and then make the Okafor for Gasol trade, we'd be in business. Gasol would replace Nene. Bledsoe would be an upgrade over Crawford. And we'd have the cap room this summer to go find a stopgap replacement for Okafor (while hopefully drafting a grunt center of the future).
Would you start Bledsoe over Wall or Beal? I don't think Bledsoe wants to go anywhere, where there isn't starting potential for him.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
- nate33
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
Yeah. Probably true. Maybe the Bledsoe trade isn't perfect, but it's the type of trade I'd consider. We send Nene to a contender looking for a final piece, and the contender sends us back an expiring contract plus a real nice pick or prospect. The same could work with OKC (where they send us the Toronto pick).
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
^Bledsoe wouldn't start over either. He probably benefits by playing limited minutes and flashing against reserves. His shot is suspect and I don't see him being the passer that Wall is. He's talented, but overrated IMO.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
jivelikenice wrote:^Bledsoe wouldn't start over either. He probably benefits by playing limited minutes and flashing against reserves. His shot is suspect and I don't see him being the passer that Wall is. He's talented, but overrated IMO.
So we can expect Ernie to trade an unprotected first for Bledsoe any day now...
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
'If' - by Rudyard Kipling
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
'If' - by Rudyard Kipling
Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
nate33 wrote:VintaGe36 wrote:Trade Ariza/Okafor to LAL for Pau Gasol
Wall
Beal
Webster
Nene
Gasol
I think it's redundant to have Nene and Gasol together. Both are good offensive bigs who are suspect rebounders. I think you want to have one of them and pair him with a "grunt" like Okafor.
That said, I can see the merit in trading Ariza + Okafor for Gasol. With the right teammates and system Gasol is the better player. But I would only do so if we had a Nene trade lined up. If we could pull off something like: Nene + Crawford for Odom + Bledsoe, and then make the Okafor for Gasol trade, we'd be in business. Gasol would replace Nene. Bledsoe would be an upgrade over Crawford. And we'd have the cap room this summer to go find a stopgap replacement for Okafor (while hopefully drafting a grunt center of the future).
I would strongly disagree with that first paragraph - unless Gasol has fallen off the cliff - which is possible. Okafor is just a so-so player, imo - good enough to lose with if you start him. Defensively, his rep is much better than his performance, and he's not as good as either Nene or Gasol. Meanwhile, both Nene and Gasol have the footwork to defend either PF or C, while Okafor is too slow to cover PF's.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
I honestly think, if we go BPA, in the draft, say Ben McLemore, and let him inflate his value for the first half of next year, coupled with Okafor's expiring, we could really land something of worth. I don't see a player like Bledsoe, starting, changing the fortunes of any franchise (at least into contender status).
I'd hold onto major pieces for next year, and make offers for players in bad situation like Cousins, Love and see what Por is up to with LMA.
I think with so much trade talk with desperate teams this season, we should focus on our ability to include ourselves as facilitators while getting minor upgrades.
I'd hold onto major pieces for next year, and make offers for players in bad situation like Cousins, Love and see what Por is up to with LMA.
I think with so much trade talk with desperate teams this season, we should focus on our ability to include ourselves as facilitators while getting minor upgrades.
Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac
nate33 wrote:VintaGe36 wrote:Trade Ariza/Okafor to LAL for Pau Gasol
Wall
Beal
Webster
Nene
Gasol
I think it's redundant to have Nene and Gasol together. Both are good offensive bigs who are suspect rebounders. I think you want to have one of them and pair him with a "grunt" like Okafor.
I would do this trade. I think Nene and Gasol would be a fantastic combination and would play well off one another.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
Ruzious wrote:Okafor is just a so-so player, imo - good enough to lose with if you start him. Defensively, his rep is much better than his performance, and he's not as good as either Nene or Gasol. Meanwhile, both Nene and Gasol have the footwork to defend either PF or C, while Okafor is too slow to cover PF's.
I like the idea of a Nene Gasol front court but I strongly disagree with the bolded statement. I think Okafor's D is criminally under rated around here.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
jivelikenice wrote:
I think you misunderstood on Nene. I would entertain a deal for him, but I don't see them making any major deal unless they get back a piece that they envision being a third building block to go with Wall & Beal. We have a lotto pick this upcoming draft, multiple 2nds, and Satoransky overseas, so I don't see adding a mid first rd pick as a necessity or a desire of this FO. This team is playing better because they have a good mix of youth and vets. They're not going to trade those vets for picks or mediocre talent just for the sake of it. If a legit third piece can't be had, why not just ride it out, especially with Okafor and Ariza being expiring deals holding more value in the offseason.
Nene is a ticking time bomb, but he does add leadership and a veteran presence. It would be a bad message to this group of players if you deal him for an expiring and frankly, nobody will offer an expiring for him.
I do not misunderstand, I get it, i do. but if we can pick up another pick mid round, we could move up with a team trading back to save money. we could get in to the lottery that way. grab kelly olynyk or Isaiah Austin. Plus if we could trade with say the nets and get hump and brooks in return, that gives us more room to maneuver . hump ariza and okafur would all be expiring after next season and they would all have high trade value.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
GhostsOfGil wrote:Ruzious wrote:Okafor is just a so-so player, imo - good enough to lose with if you start him. Defensively, his rep is much better than his performance, and he's not as good as either Nene or Gasol. Meanwhile, both Nene and Gasol have the footwork to defend either PF or C, while Okafor is too slow to cover PF's.
I like the idea of a Nene Gasol front court but I strongly disagree with the bolded statement. I think Okafor's D is criminally under rated around here.
My impression is that most think he's a very good to excellent defender. For him to be criminally underrated would mean that he's basically Mutumbo in his prime.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
Ruzious wrote:GhostsOfGil wrote:Ruzious wrote:Okafor is just a so-so player, imo - good enough to lose with if you start him. Defensively, his rep is much better than his performance, and he's not as good as either Nene or Gasol. Meanwhile, both Nene and Gasol have the footwork to defend either PF or C, while Okafor is too slow to cover PF's.
I like the idea of a Nene Gasol front court but I strongly disagree with the bolded statement. I think Okafor's D is criminally under rated around here.
My impression is that most think he's a very good to excellent defender. For him to be criminally underrated would mean that he's basically Mutumbo in his prime.
Fair enough, although that impression was lost with the: "His his rep is much better than his performance" statement
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
If any of you guys went to Verizon center, maybe on some of the higher level where you get a better view of court spacing you'd realize that Nene is one of the worst PF defenders in the league. He is average at post D, but his D when PF's face up on him couldn't be worse.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
1. Okafor/Ariza for Gasol
2. If we can't draft Noels, I say we trade the pick, but that's just me personally.
3. Not a fan of Shabazz, and I think we should cautiously draft a big man we can groom.
4. Tank again and hope for Parker or Wiggins
5. Profit.
2. If we can't draft Noels, I say we trade the pick, but that's just me personally.
3. Not a fan of Shabazz, and I think we should cautiously draft a big man we can groom.
4. Tank again and hope for Parker or Wiggins
5. Profit.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
mohammed10 wrote:So we can expect Ernie to trade an unprotected first for Bledsoe any day now...
Hey, if we continue to play like we have been from here on out and the pick drops into the projected 6 or lower range, then I think you can make a case for that.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
VintaGe36 wrote:1. Okafor/Ariza for Gasol
2. If we can't draft Noels, I say we trade the pick, but that's just me personally.
3. Not a fan of Shabazz, and I think we should cautiously draft a big man we can groom.
4. Tank again and hope for Parker or Wiggins
5. Profit.
Be careful how you use the word "profit" in these parts.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
Dark Faze wrote:If any of you guys went to Verizon center, maybe on some of the higher level where you get a better view of court spacing you'd realize that Nene is one of the worst PF defenders in the league. He is average at post D, but his D when PF's face up on him couldn't be worse.
The numbers do not support this. The Wizards' D is 6.3 points better when Nene is on the court. Opponent FG% drops 1.6%, opponent free throw attempts drop by 2. Nene holds his counterpart at PF to slightly below average production.
Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present)
long time visitor first time poster...looking at the 2013 draft there isn't a guy that really intrigues me as far as being a great fit for us...Shabazz & Mclemore are 2s or undersized 3 in Muhammads case , Len is a project, Noel would be my pick by default unless Bennett grows 2-3 inches by june...so having said that how do you all feel about trading the pick(unprotected) along with Seraphin to Houston for Chandler Parsons and Patrick Patterson...young underrated small forward would be perfect fit with JW and Beal and if the Wizards get lucky in 2yrs?? and sign Cousins the starting 5 is set
pg wall
sg beal
sf parsons
pf patterson
c cousins
pg wall
sg beal
sf parsons
pf patterson
c cousins