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tontoz wrote:I haven't looked but isn't Bosh their best rebounder? That is their big weakness and Nene won't help.

DCZards wrote:

tontoz wrote:I haven't looked but isn't Bosh their best rebounder? That is their big weakness and Nene won't help.

Miami would probably prefer Okafor. They could use his rebounding and defensive toughness in the paint. In fact, I've been thinking that Miami might be already eyeballing Okafor.

DCZards wrote:

tontoz wrote:I haven't looked but isn't Bosh their best rebounder? That is their big weakness and Nene won't help.

Miami would probably prefer Okafor. They could use his rebounding and defensive toughness in the paint. In fact, I've been thinking that Miami might be already eyeballing Okafor.

nate33 wrote:A poster on the General Board posted some interesting screen caps of a frustrated Chris Bosh looking like he is sick of being the 3rd fiddle behind Lebron and Wade. Just for kicks, this trade might actually make some sense for all parties:

Miami trades: Bosh
Washington trades: Nene + Ariza + 1st round pick (top 10 prot. in 2013, top 3 prot. thereafter)

Miami gets a true center and a player who fits in better as a 3rd option and doesn't need so many touches. They also save about $15M in luxtax payments in 2015. They could save another $15M or so if they manage to flip Ariza for an expiring contract with a 3rd party involved.

Washington gets probably the best possible fit at PF among any player in the league. Bosh is a first option scorer who has the perimeter game to spread the floor for Wall or to run the pick and roll. Our lineup next year would be:

PG Wall
SG Beal/Crawford
SF Webster
PF Bosh/Booker
C Okafor/Seraphin

Add in a 2013 top 5 pick, an MLE-caliber free agent, and a few vet minimum guys and that's a real good team for a while.

fishercob wrote:Hm. The ESPN trade checker allows Nene for Bosh straight up. But hey, I'm all for trading Ariza for expirings either way.

Nuggets Coach George Karl said he would always feel a special connection with Nene since he relied on the 6-foot-11 forward during his own bout with throat cancer three years ago. But he was frank while explaining why the trade “had to made.” After the Nuggets traded Carmelo Anthony and started to rebuild the team, they wanted more from Nene. The expectations rose when Nene signed a five-year, $65 million contract in December 2011 and when they went unfilled, the team sought a younger alternative in JaVale McGee.

“I think Nene is a team player to a fault. I guess that’s the best way to phrase that,” Karl said. “When we kind of made all of the changes, we kind of wanted Nene to be more assertive and more demanding of his skills and the responsibility of the team. And I’m not saying he didn’t do that. He likes being a team guy.
“The situation came down to, when you’re reshaping a team, it’s better to go younger and that’s the choice management made and I was supportive of that,” Karl said. “I mean, I could’ve very easily kept Nene. I think Nene is easily a 14 [points] and 8 [rebounds], 14 and 9 guy. He’ll probably be that for the next three or four years. But sometimes, I think we wanted him to try to be an 18 and 12 guy. Sometimes, I think Nene enjoys being a major part of a good team and playing as a team. Sometimes, your best player has to say, ‘Give me the ball. Give me the responsibility.’ ”

nate33 wrote:

fishercob wrote:Hm. The ESPN trade checker allows Nene for Bosh straight up. But hey, I'm all for trading Ariza for expirings either way.

The Trade Checker must not be accounting for Bosh's 15% kicker. Add another 15% to the incoming salary for Washington and it doesn't work.

GhostsOfGil wrote:

jivelikenice wrote:I also think we're valuing D Williams based on his draft position versus actual production...He wasn't inexperienced coming out and for Minnesota to shop him so heavily just 1 1/2 yrs after drafting him #2 is a big red flag.

Im not valuing D Will on his draft position but rather his potential. His per 36 minute stats this year are all up and he's improved his shooting drastically (last year his eFG% on jumpers was .353 this year it's .486).

While I agree with some of things you wrote, I just don't see that level of potential in Seraphin, whether he's hit his ceiling or not.

jivelikenice wrote:

GhostsOfGil wrote:

jivelikenice wrote:I also think we're valuing D Williams based on his draft position versus actual production...He wasn't inexperienced coming out and for Minnesota to shop him so heavily just 1 1/2 yrs after drafting him #2 is a big red flag.

Im not valuing D Will on his draft position but rather his potential. His per 36 minute stats this year are all up and he's improved his shooting drastically (last year his eFG% on jumpers was .353 this year it's .486).

While I agree with some of things you wrote, I just don't see that level of potential in Seraphin, whether he's hit his ceiling or not.

Tonight's game is why Seraphin is such a tough case to examine. I just think if you trade a young big man with scoring ability, you just have to get a proven commodity, which Derrick Williams is not.

nate33 wrote:It's so tough when we're talking about Seraphin. Is he a hopeless tease of a player with too much tunnel vision and an inability to improve his bball IQ? Or is he a surprisingly skilled two-way player who can defend the post, block shots, nail jumpers with excellent accuracy, and score on the block, who only lacks the experience to react better to double teams?

fishercob wrote:Gotcha.

Well, George Karl probably thinks Miami should make the deal, nate. From Mike Lee's story on Nene's return to Denver:

Nuggets Coach George Karl said he would always feel a special connection with Nene since he relied on the 6-foot-11 forward during his own bout with throat cancer three years ago. But he was frank while explaining why the trade “had to made.” After the Nuggets traded Carmelo Anthony and started to rebuild the team, they wanted more from Nene. The expectations rose when Nene signed a five-year, $65 million contract in December 2011 and when they went unfilled, the team sought a younger alternative in JaVale McGee.

“I think Nene is a team player to a fault. I guess that’s the best way to phrase that,” Karl said. “When we kind of made all of the changes, we kind of wanted Nene to be more assertive and more demanding of his skills and the responsibility of the team. And I’m not saying he didn’t do that. He likes being a team guy.
“The situation came down to, when you’re reshaping a team, it’s better to go younger and that’s the choice management made and I was supportive of that,” Karl said. “I mean, I could’ve very easily kept Nene. I think Nene is easily a 14 [points] and 8 [rebounds], 14 and 9 guy. He’ll probably be that for the next three or four years. But sometimes, I think we wanted him to try to be an 18 and 12 guy. Sometimes, I think Nene enjoys being a major part of a good team and playing as a team. Sometimes, your best player has to say, ‘Give me the ball. Give me the responsibility.’ ”

That said, Bosh is both better and younger. Miami won a title last year with him and I think they think they can do it again (they may not have won last year were it not for Harden's dismantling of the Spurs -- SA owned Miami during the season last year and I thought they'd take them apart in the FInals). CHemistry would have to deteriorate further and the Heat would have to lose a bunch of games before they'd really consider this IMO.

miller31time wrote:I wouldn't have any problem at all including an unprotected 1st rounder along with Nene for Bosh.

If the opportunity ever presented itself to acquire not only a top-notch player but a top-notch player who would fit in seamlessly, you have to present a serious offer.

Nene (who, while a good player, is injury prone with a crappy contract) and a protected pick wouldn't get the deal done.

gambitx777 wrote:

miller31time wrote:I wouldn't have any problem at all including an unprotected 1st rounder along with Nene for Bosh.

If the opportunity ever presented itself to acquire not only a top-notch player but a top-notch player who would fit in seamlessly, you have to present a serious offer.

Nene (who, while a good player, is injury prone with a crappy contract) and a protected pick wouldn't get the deal done.

I think that's giving up to much! I am not big on bosh, plus miami will probably try to re tread some big's who are left on the open market or who might get cut or bought out later in the season. Word is they are looking a oden, another run with curry, nd some other options. We should not just hand them our first!