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Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - 02/06/13)

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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#976 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:07 pm

So, something like Nene to LAL, Lopez to Washington, and Howard to Brooklyn with some accoutrements thrown in. Gotta figure for the Lakers purposes, Nene is a much better fit than Okafor.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#977 » by Nivek » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Okay, here's a nutty, off the wall trade idea that's so nuts it might work:

Wizards trade
- Okafor
- Ariza
- Vesely
- Singleton
- Booker
- Crawford
- 2013 1st round pick

Wizards get
- Pau Gasol
- Brook Lopez

Brooklyn trades
- Lopez
- Humphries

Brooklyn gets
- Dwight Howard
- Vesely
- Singleton
- Booker
- Crawford

Lakers trade
- Gasol
- Howard

Lakers get
- Okafor
- Humprhies
- Ariza
- Wizards pick

Or, should Brooklyn get the pick?

Or, should the Wizards just get to keep the pick?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#978 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:08 pm

On second thought, the Nets were supposedly trying to get Minnesota to give up Kevin Love for Lopez. Nothing we can send the Lakers rivals Love or close.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#979 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:13 pm

I guess if the Lakers come to the trade deadline and realize - they're not making the playoffs, it is rebuilding time, and that Wiz 2013 pick looks awfully good. Then something like Nivek's trade might be considered.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#980 » by fugop » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:13 pm

I think we are a decent trade partner with the Lakers, but not for Dwight. I could see them valuing Crawford, Ariza, and even Vesely. Crawford would give some youth and athleticism at guard beside Kobe, Ariza length and quickness at the 3, and Vesely the ability to effectively defend the pick and roll. A couple of options:

Vesely + Crawford for Steve Blake + LA Lakers pick
Vesely + Crawford for Jordan Hill + LA Lakers pick
Crawford + Ariza to LA, Steve Nash and Jan Vesely to Indiana, Granger to Washington
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#981 » by jivelikenice » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:20 pm

Ruzious wrote:So, something like Nene to LAL, Lopez to Washington, and Howard to Brooklyn with some accoutrements thrown in. Gotta figure for the Lakers purposes, Nene is a much better fit than Okafor.


Nene is better but is tied up long-term and I don't think they want his contract on their books. Gasol goes to being the primary low post scorer with Okafor doing the dirty work
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac 

Post#982 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:52 pm

DaRealHibachi wrote:Been thinking about this for a while, especially since all 3 have been playing (somewhat) better lately. While I haven't checked the stats, I think it's safe to say that all 3 have a (positive) effect on different parts of our team;

Nene, offense and passing
Okafor, rebounding and post-defense
Ariza, perimeter defense (meh, maybe I wouldn't mind him leaving that much)

So yeah, back to them leaving; Who are we going to get that can "replace" these guys? They have size, length, strength, high BBIQ and most importantly, experience.. I don't believe the draft has anyone at their level on offense/defense/rebounding at our draft slot (+/- 7th pick). Trading might not be possible, since we have nothing trade-worthy (expect our future, which ofcourse, we need).

I would hate to watch this team next year if we start Wall/Beal/Webster(?)/?/? and being a non-playoff yet again, and no, I don't consider Seraphin, Singleton and Vesely as parts of our future team.

I'm not necessarily advocating for keeping them at their current salary, but what do you think of resigning/keeping them until we get better players, instead of fielding yet another talent-lacking team?

Discuss!


I think the right thing to do is to keep them this season and to enjoy the good things they bring to the team UNLESS a good to great offer is made for them. They are providing the very players you don't see as part of the future experience in winning. As for the players you don't see being part of the future, DRH, I think all three can be very solid rotation players on winning teams. This Wizards' team reminds me of the 2006-2007 Celtics.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2007.html

They went 24-58 with a roster that included: Paul Pierce, Rashon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Leon Powe, Tony Allen, Ryan Gomes, and Gerald Green. The next season, the guys they kept won a championship. That could happen with the Wizards, too, if they draft right and make one great trade.

I think the best time for a trade would be at the end of the season, or possibly right before the deadline.

Singleton for a pick might be all that I would not hesitate to do.
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac 

Post#983 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:56 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Doubt Nene goes anywhere. Okafor will probably be traded next year since he's an expiring. Should the Wizards get Noel, Okafor would be there to bridge the gap.

Second, I may be a homer so take this prediction with a grain of salt but I really think Ariza is going to opt out and become a free agent.


Byron Russell opted out right before a great thing happened for the Wizards. The Clippers or another West team could use Ariza. I could see Trevor Ariza opting out as not too far-fetched.

I also agree that next season is a great time to trade Okafor's expiring deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#984 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:09 pm

fishercob wrote:I just know that if we were to acquire a maxed out Brook Lopez he would surely cripple himself and never play again.


Lopez is overpaid. If he were worth the max deal they wouldn't be so eager to dump him for Howard. Lopez is maxed out but I don't see where he's that much better than Andrey Blatche.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2013.html

If you look at TS%, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, and WS/48 there is not a big difference between Blatche's play and Lopez's
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#985 » by fishercob » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:14 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Let me throw something into the equation. Would you be willing to be the third party in a Brooklyn/LA deal where Lopez ends up here. I'm assuming LA wouldn't want to take on Brook's long-term deal and might be more enticed with a package centered around guys like Okafor, Ariza, Humphries, Brooks, picks. That would allow them to compete more now, not tie in long-term money, and gather picks for the post Kobe era.



Brooklyn trades: Lopez, Wallace
Brooklyn gets: Dwight, Ariza

Lakers get Dwight and downgrade at SF but still get a competent defensive role player

Lakers trade: Dwight
Lakers get: Okafor, Gerald Wallace, Crawford

Lakers address their D via a good banger,/boardman in Okafor and the ideal hybrid forward for D'antoni, and a much needed bench scorer. While Wallace is signed long term, Okafor isn't and Crawford is cheap. Much better scenario for them than Dwight walking for nothing.

Wiz trade: Okafor, Ariza, Crawford
Wiz get: Lopez.

24 year old all-star centers don't grow in trees. Wiz would also be about $10 under the cap this summer before picks or re-signing anyone.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#986 » by Nivek » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:22 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
fishercob wrote:I just know that if we were to acquire a maxed out Brook Lopez he would surely cripple himself and never play again.


Lopez is overpaid. If he were worth the max deal they wouldn't be so eager to dump him for Howard. Lopez is maxed out but I don't see where he's that much better than Andrey Blatche.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2013.html

If you look at TS%, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, and WS/48 there is not a big difference between Blatche's play and Lopez's


Keep in mind that Blatche is coming off the bench and Lopez is starting. Because Lopez is a low-minute starter (29.3 mpg), he's facing mostly starters while in the game. Blatche gets the benefit of going against bench guys for a substantial chunk of his minutes -- and it's easier to generate stats against bench guys (this has been shown in research by Mike Goodman over at APBRmetrics).

Using MikeG's starter% estimator, Lopez faces 80% starters in his minutes; Blatche 54%. Despite the higher degree of difficulty, Lopez this season has a slightly better offensive rating.

This isn't a knock on Blatche -- he's having BY FAR the best season of his career. But Lopez is performing better. My salary formula estimates Lopez as worth about $13.7 million overall. Per 36 minutes, the salary formula pegs his value at $16.4 million. This season, Lopez is getting paid $13.7 million. He'll be getting $16.7 million in 2015-16.

He's not the bargain Blatche is this year. Blatche, of course, is getting the league minimum. His per-36 performance is worth about $14.1 million, according to the salary formula. His total production (he's getting about 21 mpg) is worth $8.0 million.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#987 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:22 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
fishercob wrote:I just know that if we were to acquire a maxed out Brook Lopez he would surely cripple himself and never play again.


Lopez is overpaid. If he were worth the max deal they wouldn't be so eager to dump him for Howard. Lopez is maxed out but I don't see where he's that much better than Andrey Blatche.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2013.html

If you look at TS%, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, and WS/48 there is not a big difference between Blatche's play and Lopez's

I know you're itching to compare Lopez to Cousins. 8-) Btw, both Lopez' have really stepped up their games this year - at age 24.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#988 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:26 pm

I do not want to give away a first round pick ! we need talent, there is NO WAY ted lets E.G. draft again this year so we have a chance of getting a good player. Also i wanted to see how you guys think that the griz cav's trade effects the trade market. they traded Marreese Speights, Wayne Ellington, Josh Selby and a future draft pick for Leuer. now they did this to stay under the tax but still.
I think that we need to go after more draft picks. I say we go to the nest and try to move nene to them. I think we need to get ride of NENE before he has no trade value what so ever.
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac 

Post#989 » by daSwami » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:29 pm

yeah if we trade those guys we'll never make the play-offs!
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#990 » by tontoz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:35 pm

Nene > Lopez.

Lopez has weak efficiency, weak rebounding, no defense and is a total black hole.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#991 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:39 pm

Nivek wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Lopez is overpaid. If he were worth the max deal they wouldn't be so eager to dump him for Howard. Lopez is maxed out but I don't see where he's that much better than Andrey Blatche.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2013.html

If you look at TS%, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, and WS/48 there is not a big difference between Blatche's play and Lopez's


Keep in mind that Blatche is coming off the bench and Lopez is starting. Because Lopez is a low-minute starter (29.3 mpg), he's facing mostly starters while in the game. Blatche gets the benefit of going against bench guys for a substantial chunk of his minutes -- and it's easier to generate stats against bench guys (this has been shown in research by Mike Goodman over at APBRmetrics).

Using MikeG's starter% estimator, Lopez faces 80% starters in his minutes; Blatche 54%. Despite the higher degree of difficulty, Lopez this season has a slightly better offensive rating.

This isn't a knock on Blatche -- he's having BY FAR the best season of his career. But Lopez is performing better. My salary formula estimates Lopez as worth about $13.7 million overall. Per 36 minutes, the salary formula pegs his value at $16.4 million. This season, Lopez is getting paid $13.7 million. He'll be getting $16.7 million in 2015-16.

He's not the bargain Blatche is this year. Blatche, of course, is getting the league minimum. His per-36 performance is worth about $14.1 million, according to the salary formula. His total production (he's getting about 21 mpg) is worth $8.0 million.


I never doubt your accuracy and I believe you, Nivek. Lopez is better than Blatche.

One observation: This season Blatche's best stats actually occurred the 7 games he started. I think Andray could be putting up even better stats if he weren't coming off the bench.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2013/

As starter (7 games), Blatche: 17.6 points, 8.9 rebounds over 29.5 minutes. He shot .545 FG%.
As starter (34 games), Lopez: 18.4 points, 7.4 rebounds over 29.5 minutes. He shoots .517 FG%

Blatche has played very good basketball this season.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#992 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:40 pm

see thats why i do not really want lopez, i would rather do NENE for hump, brooks and/or their 2013 first. that seems fair to me considering hump is barley playing, and brooks is loosing playing time every game.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#993 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:52 pm

On Blatche v Lopes, while +/- can be mis-leading, it's interesting to note that through 1/15, Lopez had a +12.0 for Brooklyn, while Blatche had a -3.5.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXI (12/13/12 - present) 

Post#994 » by jivelikenice » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:01 pm

gambitx777 wrote:see thats why i do not really want lopez, i would rather do NENE for hump, brooks and/or their 2013 first. that seems fair to me considering hump is barley playing, and brooks is loosing playing time every game.


I don't see Nene going yet unless he requests a trade. Brooklyn is a team that would probably take him, but our team seems to be developing some chemistry and non of the pieces coming our way would be impactful. Humphries would play, but wouldn't brign that veteran presense. Brooks is a nice player, but is useless behind Beal and Crawford. The first round pick is ok but its a late pick in a weak draft AND we already have a lottery pick, two 2nd rd picks, and Satoransky on the way. If they trade before the deadline, it will be for a legit piece like a Rudy Gay/ Lopez/ Cousins type, or I see them standing pat until pre-draft.
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Re: If we trade Nene/Okafor/Ariza, who's picking up the slac 

Post#995 » by barelyawake » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:07 pm

Nene and Wall are Fegan properties, as is Cousins. Wall (thus Fegan) can get the most money here. If we don't get Noel, one would hope we make a large push for Cousins. One would hope Wall and Cousins have been talking, and will continue to talk, about how beneficial that would be for all parties involved. Wall needs to help market this team to other players.

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