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Mack is Back / Update: Nevermind

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Post#31 Re: Mack is Back
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:16 pm by dangermouse

Not exactly the exciting blockbuster announcement i was hoping for...
Fri Jul 5, 2013 4:36 am by dangermouse
dangermouse wrote:44 is my best guess.

I think we make the playoffs, no lower than 6th seed.
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Post#32 Re: Mack is Back
Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:45 pm by montestewart

dangermouse wrote:Not exactly the exciting blockbuster announcement i was hoping for...

Face it, the only likely blockbuster that will make most of us happy is "Grunfeld fired"
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Post#33 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:14 am by TheBigThree

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:TheBigThree, I can see where you are coming from and I agree that it sure does indicate Wittman and/or the FO didn't want Shelvin. Bottom line as far as I am concerned is the stats from last season. A full year's work showed Mack to be a decent sub. I don't really care that EG has reversed his position. Shelvin was better than Pargo. Could they have used imagination and creativity and gone a different direction? YES. I see your point, TBT, but I happen to be motivated by the do-right principle over getting the best talent at that spot. Mack isn't as much of a player as he is a winner in my book, if that makes any sense at all. On a minimum deal, he's okay IMO.

Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that. I think Shelvin deserved to be on the team for sure. Not sure there were any better options out there that didn't want to play for contenders, anyway.

Just saying it disturbs me that these decisions are so backward. I'd honestly rather see them stick to their guns with a decision like this. At least that would suggest having a solid plan going forward.

Here's hoping Mack plays like he's capable of and makes EG look even more foolish for letting him go in the first place.
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Post#34 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:46 am by hands11

I'm going to choose to look at this as the glass half full.

The way Mack played last year as the main back up, he showed they needed something more from that slot so I have zero problem that they went looking. His summer ball play didn't do enough to show he was measurably better then what he gave them last year, so they took a chance in another direction.

In that search, they added Price who while not starter ready ( he wasn't added to be that ) he did show improvement and looks to be a decent back up who still has room to improve. He is quicker then Mack and a decent defender who looks to be able to develop a decent 3 ball.

Through injuries, they were forced into playing Crawford at PG. This is a win for the team. Crawford is now starting at PG and growing his game in that role. In the end, Crawford may well be more of a PG then a SG so it was important that he got an extended look at that position. Once the team is more healthy, he can back up both PG and SG or start at either if needed. That has value.

Mack needed to find his groove and he got a chance to do that in the DL. He hasn't been around for this horrible start to this season. He was speared that while he was balln in the DL where it looks like he found his outside shot. While that was happening, they tried Livingston again with most of us wanted. But it didn't work out and they cut him. It was worth a try.

End result. They have Crawford more established at PG and he is likely their best option as the back up PG. They hopefully get a Mack 2.0 with a better outside shot and more confidence and they have Price once his finger heals.

Wall/Crawford with Mack and Price fighting for the third slot. That's not bad for PG options once they are healthy.

So three players got developed while they are tanking for another high pick. This should pay off down the road.
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Post#35 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:37 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

Nivek wrote:Neither good nor bad news. Replace Mack? Sure, why not? He was an acceptable reserve, but still was below average overall. But, there was no point attempting to replace him with guys were a) no better, and b) older and clearly not getting any better. Mack was still young enough to think he might get closer to average for a PG with experience.

But, the team drafted him, had him for a full season, a summer and a pre-season, and decided he wasn't good enough. They replaced him Price, Pargo and then Livingston. Has he "destroyed" the D-League? No. He's been above average at that level, but nothing great. Not even top PG for the D-League. So, if they've already deemed him not good enough to help the team, why are they bringing him back? Why not give a shot to Someone Else -- maybe one of those D-League PGs who's been more productive so far this season?

The team's decision-making remains a puzzle.


D-league players generally come up on 10-day deals. They are honored and grateful to be called up to the NBA. Shelvin knows the Wizards coaches, their players, and the playbook. He's a positive guy. In this case the coaches don't have to work to phase a newbie in. it will be a smooth transition. What I wonder is would they bring Shelvin back on a 10-day deal?

Also, just because he's back his contract does not become guaranteed for a while. The season is only 25 games in. With over two-thirds of the season left to be played just because Shelvin gets this call up does not mean the Wizards cannot bring "the top PG for the D-League."

To me, bringing back Shelvin was a make good. We'll see how it goes.
1. Games 1 & 2 wins over Chicago were NOT flukes.
2. Game 3 needs to be a definitive statement game.
3. I expect AARP guys to get major burn at home.
4. Gortat got mugged in Chicago but he will shine at home.
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Post#36 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:43 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

hands11 wrote:I'm going to choose to look at this as the glass half full.

The way Mack played last year as the main back up, he showed they needed something more from that slot so I have zero problem that they went looking. His summer ball play didn't do enough to show he was measurably better then what he gave them last year, so they took a chance in another direction.

In that search, they added Price who while not starter ready ( he wasn't added to be that ) he did show improvement and looks to be a decent back up who still has room to improve. He is quicker then Mack and a decent defender who looks to be able to develop a decent 3 ball.

Through injuries, they were forced into playing Crawford at PG. This is a win for the team. Crawford is now starting at PG and growing his game in that role. In the end, Crawford may well be more of a PG then a SG so it was important that he got an extended look at that position. Once the team is more healthy, he can back up both PG and SG or start at either if needed. That has value.

Mack needed to find his groove and he got a chance to do that in the DL. He hasn't been around for this horrible start to this season. He was speared that while he was balln in the DL where it looks like he found his outside shot. While that was happening, they tried Livingston again with most of us wanted. But it didn't work out and they cut him. It was worth a try.

End result. They have Crawford more established at PG and he is likely their best option as the back up PG. They hopefully get a Mack 2.0 with a better outside shot and more confidence and they have Price once his finger heals.

Wall/Crawford with Mack and Price fighting for the third slot. That's not bad for PG options once they are healthy
.

So three players got developed while they are tanking for another high pick. This should pay off down the road.


I also see the glass half full for those reasons.

I like what Price brings to the table. I like the way Shelvin manages a game, and I don't care about his D-League turnovers. He didn't turn it over much at all last NBA season. Crawford has expanded his game but IMO more importantly, he's upped his trade value big time IMO. There are more players to potentially add in larger trades now.
1. Games 1 & 2 wins over Chicago were NOT flukes.
2. Game 3 needs to be a definitive statement game.
3. I expect AARP guys to get major burn at home.
4. Gortat got mugged in Chicago but he will shine at home.
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Post#37 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:02 pm by hands11

What I wonder CCJ is this.

What becomes of Crawford once the team is healthy ?

I still struggle a little seeing where the team would be willing to slot him so he can settle into his role while also allowing him to play enough that he would be happy and contributing. I don't mind him as the primary back up PG and one of the SG, but will the team use him that way and who is that 3rd SG who would be first off the bench to run with Crawford ?

Personally, I like that he is getting plenty of burn at PG because I think that is what he is. He is Gillish in lots of ways. Same confidence. Lots of driving. Able to chuck them up with the best of them. Willing and able to take the last shot. Both rebounded. Gil was a better 3 ball shooter. I think Crawford is more willing to actually run the team and rebound. And both are mentally special people. When I'm done here I'm going to pull up both of their 3rd year per 36 numbers. I glanced at them on ESPN and things looked interesting. Yeah, i just did it. I compared Crawford to Gilbert in his 3rd year ( his first with the Wiz) as the PG of a crappy Wiz team.

Once Wall is healthy enough to play, I don't think we will see Wall for more then 20 minutes a game for a while. Same thing they did with Nene. So there are 28 minutes for Crawford to play at back up PG. For now, that leaves only one slot between Mack and Price as the third PG.

At SG, Beal is starting and slotted to stay that way for the future. Question is, who is going to be the back up SG ? If Beal is getting 30-35 minutes a game, do the extra minutes go to Martin or Webster. That works for this year but what about the future. Is that something you would feel confortable with ? I guess it doesn't matter to much right now because the future means next year and lots can happen but I was interested in projecting what they might look like. Thats what we do here right.

Wall/Crawford/ Price or Mack
Beal/Martin or Webster/Crawford

Just given the way rotations work, Crawford can't be in two places at once. He is a nice back up for Wall because both can drive and pass. I like the pressure that would put on the other team.

So if Crawford is the back up PG, who is the first SG off the bench to run with him ?

I think Crawford is a keeper but I think it might be as the 2nd PG and 3rd SG that can start at PG if needed. That would allow him to get 20 minutes a game when the team is fully healthy. What I think they need to figure out is who is the first SG off the bench to run with him. They are missing a pure shooter SG. Webster doesn't seem to be that person so far. Could it be Martin ? They need a Louis Williams, JJ Redick, Richard Hamilton type.
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Post#38 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:40 pm by Nivek

10-day contracts don't start until January 5.

I don't object to bringing Mack back -- I didn't think they should have let him go in the first place. I do wonder what the point is, however in the Wizards bringing back a guy THEY decided wasn't good enough. I mean, great: they've finally figured out what some of us said back during the offseason -- that the guys they signed to take Mack's job weren't any better than Mack. But bringing him back doesn't mean they've upgraded. He's young at least, and can still improve.

I guess my question to the front office would be this: What has changed about Mack since you cut him to make you think he's better than he was when you discarded him?
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Post#39 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:37 pm by gambitx777

the thing is they need to let him be the guard he was when they drafted him. he avg 17 point in the D league. we was not a bad shooter in college, let him shoot.
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Post#40 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:41 pm by payitforward

Nivek wrote:10-day contracts don't start until January 5.

I don't object to bringing Mack back -- I didn't think they should have let him go in the first place. I do wonder what the point is, however in the Wizards bringing back a guy THEY decided wasn't good enough. I mean, great: they've finally figured out what some of us said back during the offseason -- that the guys they signed to take Mack's job weren't any better than Mack. But bringing him back doesn't mean they've upgraded. He's young at least, and can still improve.

I guess my question to the front office would be this: What has changed about Mack since you cut him to make you think he's better than he was when you discarded him?

I wonder whether there's some way his original partially-guaranteed contract makes him cheaper than adding yet another player.

Not suggesting this -- and don't even know exactly how that could work -- but I think they're conserving $$$, having paid Pargo and Livingston for no reason.

I'm glad he's back. Look forward to seeing what he can do. One thing he *can't* do -- get this lame lineup of lemons to win many more games.
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Post#41 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:17 pm by Tyrone Messby

Temple has no offensive game. But yes, his defense is great.
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Post#42 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:14 pm by DMVleGeND

gambitx777 wrote:the thing is they need to let him be the guard he was when they drafted him. he avg 17 point in the D league. we was not a bad shooter in college, let him shoot.


He hasn't proven to be an effective shooter at the NBA level yet.
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Post#43 Re: Mack is Back
Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:32 am by DrKnick

Thought this thread was about Mark Morrison.
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Post#44 Re: Mack is Back
Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:31 am by hands11

With Temple shining and likely to take the starting PG spot until Wall returns, Mack is back all right. Likely back to the DL once Wall returns.

He will have to battle it out with Price who is faster and a better defender and who can hit the 3 ball some. Mack got torched last night by Jameer Nelson who is 6-0. It took Temple coming in to save the day. Nelson was on fire in the first half. Temple shut him down. Nelson didn't score in the second half. Wiz had the lead at half time and instead of losing it with another crap ass Randy line up, he started Temple and they extended it.

Temple so far is looking really good. He is 26. Been around the league some. He is hungry and confident and he is a 6-6 PG who can defend and who can play at the SG as well. He is Livingston with defense and a better shot. And healthy legs. This kid is looking like the story of the year.

Temple is a much better fit then Mack is.

Personally, once Wall returns, I would dump both Price and Mack and open a slot to try out other SGs and SFs. Look for some pure shooters. If you find one, dump Martin and that open another slot. Warming up a set for you Mr James Singleton.
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Post#45 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:54 pm by MikeTheKid

Sky Kerstein ‏@SkyKerstein
#Wizards announce that they've waived Shelvin Mack
MikeTheKid wrote:No disrespect to Beal when I say this but Im starting to wish our 09-12 drafts should've went Curry, DMC, Klay/Kawhi, Drummond.

Dammit why are we cursed with EG!!!
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Post#46 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:09 pm by TheBigThree

Scott Machado, come on down?
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Post#47 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:12 pm by rockymac52

Prediction: Bobby Brown
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Post#48 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:12 pm by miller31time

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Post#49 Re: Mack is Back
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:15 pm by miller31time

rockymac52 wrote:Prediction: Bobby Brown


I guess that's....your prerogative.

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Post#50 Re: Mack is Back / Update: Nevermind
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:20 pm by Induveca

And.....Mack's career is over. Too bad for the guy.
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