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Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST

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Post#301 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:18 am by Ruzious

24 hour rule - ya gotta stay negative 24 hours after a loss. Embrace the slow burn. Then you can put on the rose colored glasses.
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Post#302 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:18 am by tontoz

The Cavs and Hornets both won last night. The tank is rolling again.
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Post#303 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:23 am by Upper Decker

Maybe I'm missing something but KS seems to get all the blame, but honestly the game was lost during the middle of the fourth quarter when Jan and Trevor were on the court together. Jan's inability to make any contribution offensively is mind-blowing. How can an NBA player, a high lotto-pick, be so completey useless offensively? The Kings used his man as a free safety to clog all driving lanes, disrupt passing lanes, and run shooters off the line. The offense shut down. This loss is on the following, in order:
1. The boy named Jan
2. Randy Whittman for playing the boy named Jan
3. Seraphin
4. Wall's busted jumper
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Post#304 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:37 am by closg00

Ruzious wrote:24 hour rule - ya gotta stay negative 24 hours after a loss. Embrace the slow burn. Then you can put on the rose colored glasses.


Exactly, ever listen to a sports how after X team has lost? It's just the frustration of not coming away with the W.
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Post#305 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:40 am by closg00

Upper Decker wrote:Maybe I'm missing something but KS seems to get all the blame, but honestly the game was lost during the middle of the fourth quarter when Jan and Trevor were on the court together. Jan's inability to make any contribution offensively is mind-blowing. How can an NBA player, a high lotto-pick, be so completey useless offensively? The Kings used his man as a free safety to clog all driving lanes, disrupt passing lanes, and run shooters off the line. The offense shut down. This loss is on the following, in order:
1. The boy named Jan
2. Randy Whittman for playing the boy named Jan
3. Seraphin
4. Wall's busted jumper


Excellent point about Jan, I have been waiting for other teams to do exactly what SAC did, they were ready when Jan entered the game. Good coaching on their part.
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Post#306 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:14 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

nate33 wrote:
AFM wrote:Too much negativity here. Think of it this way. We won 3, lost 1. That's a .75 record. If we can keep that up we'll make the playoffs.

Thank you.

Also, I don't get all the hate on Seraphin. Seraphin was great in the first half while playing alongside 3 players who were no threat whatsoever to score: Vesely, Ariza and Temple.

I'll have to rewatch the game to be sure, but I thought all 3 shots that Seraphin missed down the stretch were reasonably good shots. The problem wasn't him shooting, it was that the offense got the ball to him rather than Nene. Nene is the guy we want making decisions. Seraphin should be there just as a kick-out option.

If anybody was at fault, it was Wittman for leaving Okafor on the bench so long. Okafor played great D on Cousins all night.


Seraphin plays well with Vesely.

If Seraphin shoots early in a possession and doesn't give Nene a touch he probably needs to sit when this happens. The coach has to make sure Nene's the primary option on offense. Randy has to play it out with Okafor at times.
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Post#307 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:18 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

closg00 wrote:
Upper Decker wrote:Maybe I'm missing something but KS seems to get all the blame, but honestly the game was lost during the middle of the fourth quarter when Jan and Trevor were on the court together. Jan's inability to make any contribution offensively is mind-blowing. How can an NBA player, a high lotto-pick, be so completey useless offensively? The Kings used his man as a free safety to clog all driving lanes, disrupt passing lanes, and run shooters off the line. The offense shut down. This loss is on the following, in order:
1. The boy named Jan
2. Randy Whittman for playing the boy named Jan
3. Seraphin
4. Wall's busted jumper


Excellent point about Jan, I have been waiting for other teams to do exactly what SAC did, they were ready when Jan entered the game. Good coaching on their part.


The Wizards' adjustment might be to try and make teams respect Jan's non-existant perimeter game. No, Vesely doesn't make perimeter shots; but, yes, he needs to take them when opponents play off Vesely to run at shooters.

Jan and John Wall need to practice shooting all the time.
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Post#308 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:22 am by TGW

An average game from Cousins, CCJ? He had 6 turnovers, and Nene was making him look foolish at times.

His best offensive move is putting his head down and hoping you get called for a block--it's an ugly go-to move that works well on some nights, but is disastrous most nights. Quite frankly, I don't know why they put Seraphin on him, because Nene was doing just fine moving his feet and causing the charge. Brain fart by our coaching staff. Before Seraphin gave up the two bunnies in the paint, Cousins numbers were bad (he would have had as many turnovers as field goals). Anyway, I'm not going to dwell on it...i'd definitely rather have Wall, and I have zero interest in bringing that cancer here.
milellie111 wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Post#309 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:23 am by fishercob

Sadly prescient tweet by BUlletsForever last night:

Bullets Forever ‏@BulletsForever
Not all that convinced that Kevin Seraphin hitting all these mid-range jumpers is a good thing long term, but I'll take it for now.


Those "bad makes" led to KS taking and missing some bad shots in crunch time. Gotta be smarter than that!
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Post#310 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:54 am by DCZards

Can't blame the loss totally on Seraphin, but he does need to learn how to kick the ball out sometimes rather than shoot EVERY time he gets it. There were at least two instances late in the game where Kevin was well defended and Beal (who just happened to be the hottest shooter in the joint) was standing on the same side of the court wide open. Kevin never even looked in Beal's direction. Seraphin put his head down and just started pounding the ball to try to get in a position to shoot. He's got to be a LOT smarter than that.
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Post#311 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:02 am by Nivek

Cousins had a 2-3 minute stretch in the 1st half where he was just killing the Kings. Kept jacking up 18 footers that had not a prayer of going in. That guy has MONSTER talent, but he could be sooooooo much better if he'd stop taking those jack-assed shots and do a better job of valuing possessions.

fish -- BulletsForever's tweet and your comment reminds me of something Dean Oliver told me. Namely that when developing young players you want to emphasize and evaluate the process over the outcome. If you believe the player is talented (like, say, Beal), you don't worry much about him missing 3pt shots at first -- you want him focusing on making the right decisions about when to shoot. Over time, his talent is such that IF he's making the right decisions, the right results will come.

With Seraphin, they have a problem in the process. He continues shooting those sh*t shots. Even if he makes 3-4 in a row, they're still bad shots. Even bad shooters will make a few in a row if they shoot it enough. A guy makes 3 in a row and starts thinking he's "hot." But, when it emboldens him to take MORE bad shots, it ends up hurting the team and hurting him, ultimately.

I don't know what the coaching staff is telling Seraphin, but they need to find a way to get him back in the paint.
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Post#312 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:11 am by AFM

Real talk, is Seraphin the worst passing C in the league?
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Post#313 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:11 am by fishercob

Nivek wrote:Cousins had a 2-3 minute stretch in the 1st half where he was just killing the Kings. Kept jacking up 18 footers that had not a prayer of going in. That guy has MONSTER talent, but he could be sooooooo much better if he'd stop taking those jack-assed shots and do a better job of valuing possessions.

fish -- BulletsForever's tweet and your comment reminds me of something Dean Oliver told me. Namely that when developing young players you want to emphasize and evaluate the process over the outcome. If you believe the player is talented (like, say, Beal), you don't worry much about him missing 3pt shots at first -- you want him focusing on making the right decisions about when to shoot. Over time, his talent is such that IF he's making the right decisions, the right results will come.

With Seraphin, they have a problem in the process. He continues shooting those sh*t shots. Even if he makes 3-4 in a row, they're still bad shots. Even bad shooters will make a few in a row if they shoot it enough. A guy makes 3 in a row and starts thinking he's "hot." But, when it emboldens him to take MORE bad shots, it ends up hurting the team and hurting him, ultimately.

I don't know what the coaching staff is telling Seraphin, but they need to find a way to get him back in the paint.


Reminds me of what I was screaming about Dray's development some 7 years ago. I wanted rules for him. You must:

(1) Rebound and run the floor hard -- always. If you can't you're coming out
(2) take only 2 types of shots -- (1) at the rim and (2) mid range jumpers off the pass. Nothing off the dribble, no ISO's. Just the Antoine Carr/PJ Brown jumpers
(3) no dribbling. If you put it on the floor more than once off a defensive rebound, or go behind your back in the half court, you;re coming out.

But instead, they were just like "hey look, this guy is 6'11 and can dribble behind his back and then make a fadeaway." And since they didn't curb all that silliness, he never got good at the important stuff, lost his way, and the fans turned on him.
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Post#314 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:15 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

TGW wrote:An average game from Cousins, CCJ? He had 6 turnovers, and Nene was making him look foolish at times.

His best offensive move is putting his head down and hoping you get called for a block--it's an ugly go-to move that works well on some nights, but is disastrous most nights. Quite frankly, I don't know why they put Seraphin on him, because Nene was doing just fine moving his feet and causing the charge. Brain fart by our coaching staff. Before Seraphin gave up the two bunnies in the paint, Cousins numbers were bad (he would have had as many turnovers as field goals). Anyway, I'm not going to dwell on it...i'd definitely rather have Wall, and I have zero interest in bringing that cancer here.


If you read very closely, I said over 9 January games it was Cousin's average numbers. After shooting .474 last night he's still averaging .503 in January. The rebounds and points were routine for him--he does that to other teams, not just Washington.

I did not even watch the game, TGW. I responded to the negativity in the game thread and thought I was being encouraging rather than pumping up Cousins. DeMarcus is likely bipolar and that is something I understand intimately--but no two people are alike. I totally agree, that he could be a team cancer and someone to avoid. OTOH, he's in his third season in the NBA, his team is better than Wall's, and he's a player who is coveted by many teams.

If you're not just going to react against Cousins you can look at the trade board or in both the Vesely and Seraphin threads and you will see I said I only want Cousins at the expense of trading any/all of Crawford, Booker, Singleton, and a future pick (not in this draft). That pick would need to be top-3 protected.

If you read really closely, I posted I don't think the Wizards should trade right now, with players doing better and winning games.

Now, where I will probably upset you, TGW, is to repeat what I've said since before they were drafted--I think Cousins is a better basketball player than Wall. Wall is a vastly superior athlete with a much higher ceiling, but Boogie Cousins, sloppy game, mood swings and all is a grinder. He actually only had a game score of 16--merely well above average against the Wizards.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2013/

Yes, he has games where he actually commits more turnovers than made field goals! He's also had games of 18, 17, 12, 12 free throw attempts. He's had a 20-rebound game, and five times he's had 16 rebounds. DeMarcus is all of 22 years old. John Wall shot .789 FT last season. DeMarcus Cousins is also shooting .786 FTs this season. Both average(d) 6.1 FTAs. To point to turnovers or to call a guy a team cancer is just part of the story. Wall missed clutch FTs and he can't shoot from the perimeter, AND his knee might be a concern.

The bottom line as far as I'm concerned is Wall with Cousins would be darned good! Yes, there would be some concerns but that would be a pretty potent duo.
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Post#315 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:17 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

AFM wrote:Real talk, is Seraphin the worst passing C in the league?


He just had 4 assists last game and he's done that in another game. Kevin can throw very nice bounce passes. It's not that he can't pass.

He's the worst passer because he prefers to shoot IMO.
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Post#316 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:21 am by AFM

He can also get nervous and confused and pass it right to a defender.
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Post#317 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:26 am by jivelikenice

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
AFM wrote:Real talk, is Seraphin the worst passing C in the league?


He just had 4 assists last game and he's done that in another game. Kevin can throw very nice bounce passes. It's not that he can't pass.

He's the worst passer because he prefers to shoot IMO.


I disagree. He gets nervous when pressure comes and throws it away. He's a terrible passer. What's disappointing about him is he showed great progress offensively, and it gave hope that he had the mentality and work either to be a good all around player. Instead he has put his focus on being an offensive player only. I'm not saying get rid of him because you just don't find young bigs with scoring ability very easily, but I'd trade him in the right deal or would tell Nene to go at him in practice when day.
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Post#318 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:31 am by jivelikenice

Ruzious wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Where were Nene's touches at the end? Does Seraphin realize he doesn't have to shoot it every time?

Thing is - he's such a terrible passer, that it's probably best that he does shoot. Again, the real problem was the decisions to pass him the ball when he wasn't in position to shoot in rhythm. The first pass to him (which was from Nene) was good, because Seraphin was rolling towards the basket and got an easy layup. But the next 3 possessions, a guard just threw him the ball - forcing him to make a play, because you know he can't pass. He was put in a position - 3 straight times - to fail. And a coach simply can't let that happen down the stretch of a tight game, imo.


The decision to have him on the floor was the issue, but if he is on the floor and is open you have to make the pass. What he has to learn is just cause he's open from 15-18 ft doesn't mean he has to shoot it. He needs to evolve to the point where he can work for a better shot or make the pass. But if he's unguarded, you don't want your guards intentionally bypassing him as part of the offense.

Yesterday really exemplified the need for a go to scorer or at minimum a stretch 4.
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Post#319 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:36 am by jivelikenice

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
DeMarcus Cousins is a great player. I said this before the draft. I thought he was the better player on Wall's Kentucky team. That is not a knock on Wall or Bledsoe, who are both young talents. Wall still is young and will improve. DeMarcus is settling in on greatness sooner but that doesn't mean Wall will not.

Instead of seeing this as a negative I see this as a POSITIVE. The Wizards could have won and they played pretty well. Move on to the next game.


CCJ, after watching Cousins yesterday, I want no part of him on this team. A team will never consistently win with a player that has that type of attitude on the court. The long Js, the turnovers, the flopping, that lack of control (he was luck not to get techs on multiple occassions)...he'd drive us crazy. He's a very good rebounder but I saw very little offensively that would make me think he could be a consistent go to scoring threat. His points came versus Seraphin...When Nene was on him he had nothing on offense mentally or physically.
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Post#320 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:42 am by jivelikenice

One lastthing on yesterday's game. Wittman's lineup decisions made no sense. Why did he put Temple, Ariza, Jan, and Seraphin on the floor with Wall? He had John on the floor with no shooters!!! Does that make any sense?
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