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Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST

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Post#316 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:21 am by AFM

He can also get nervous and confused and pass it right to a defender.
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Post#317 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:26 am by jivelikenice

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
AFM wrote:Real talk, is Seraphin the worst passing C in the league?


He just had 4 assists last game and he's done that in another game. Kevin can throw very nice bounce passes. It's not that he can't pass.

He's the worst passer because he prefers to shoot IMO.


I disagree. He gets nervous when pressure comes and throws it away. He's a terrible passer. What's disappointing about him is he showed great progress offensively, and it gave hope that he had the mentality and work either to be a good all around player. Instead he has put his focus on being an offensive player only. I'm not saying get rid of him because you just don't find young bigs with scoring ability very easily, but I'd trade him in the right deal or would tell Nene to go at him in practice when day.
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Post#318 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:31 am by jivelikenice

Ruzious wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Where were Nene's touches at the end? Does Seraphin realize he doesn't have to shoot it every time?

Thing is - he's such a terrible passer, that it's probably best that he does shoot. Again, the real problem was the decisions to pass him the ball when he wasn't in position to shoot in rhythm. The first pass to him (which was from Nene) was good, because Seraphin was rolling towards the basket and got an easy layup. But the next 3 possessions, a guard just threw him the ball - forcing him to make a play, because you know he can't pass. He was put in a position - 3 straight times - to fail. And a coach simply can't let that happen down the stretch of a tight game, imo.


The decision to have him on the floor was the issue, but if he is on the floor and is open you have to make the pass. What he has to learn is just cause he's open from 15-18 ft doesn't mean he has to shoot it. He needs to evolve to the point where he can work for a better shot or make the pass. But if he's unguarded, you don't want your guards intentionally bypassing him as part of the offense.

Yesterday really exemplified the need for a go to scorer or at minimum a stretch 4.
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Post#319 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:36 am by jivelikenice

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
DeMarcus Cousins is a great player. I said this before the draft. I thought he was the better player on Wall's Kentucky team. That is not a knock on Wall or Bledsoe, who are both young talents. Wall still is young and will improve. DeMarcus is settling in on greatness sooner but that doesn't mean Wall will not.

Instead of seeing this as a negative I see this as a POSITIVE. The Wizards could have won and they played pretty well. Move on to the next game.


CCJ, after watching Cousins yesterday, I want no part of him on this team. A team will never consistently win with a player that has that type of attitude on the court. The long Js, the turnovers, the flopping, that lack of control (he was luck not to get techs on multiple occassions)...he'd drive us crazy. He's a very good rebounder but I saw very little offensively that would make me think he could be a consistent go to scoring threat. His points came versus Seraphin...When Nene was on him he had nothing on offense mentally or physically.
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Post#320 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:42 am by jivelikenice

One lastthing on yesterday's game. Wittman's lineup decisions made no sense. Why did he put Temple, Ariza, Jan, and Seraphin on the floor with Wall? He had John on the floor with no shooters!!! Does that make any sense?
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Post#321 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:52 am by TGW

jivelikenice wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
DeMarcus Cousins is a great player. I said this before the draft. I thought he was the better player on Wall's Kentucky team. That is not a knock on Wall or Bledsoe, who are both young talents. Wall still is young and will improve. DeMarcus is settling in on greatness sooner but that doesn't mean Wall will not.

Instead of seeing this as a negative I see this as a POSITIVE. The Wizards could have won and they played pretty well. Move on to the next game.


CCJ, after watching Cousins yesterday, I want no part of him on this team. A team will never consistently win with a player that has that type of attitude on the court. The long Js, the turnovers, the flopping, that lack of control (he was luck not to get techs on multiple occassions)...he'd drive us crazy. He's a very good rebounder but I saw very little offensively that would make me think he could be a consistent go to scoring threat. His points came versus Seraphin...When Nene was on him he had nothing on offense mentally or physically.


Not only that, but he got away with multiple moving screens, over-the-backs, and other fouls that he was lucky not to get called for.

Million dollar talent, 2 cent brain. We already had to deal with these type of players in McGee and Blatche...quite frankly I don't want to go back to that.
milellie111 wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Post#322 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:54 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

jivelikenice wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
DeMarcus Cousins is a great player. I said this before the draft. I thought he was the better player on Wall's Kentucky team. That is not a knock on Wall or Bledsoe, who are both young talents. Wall still is young and will improve. DeMarcus is settling in on greatness sooner but that doesn't mean Wall will not.

Instead of seeing this as a negative I see this as a POSITIVE. The Wizards could have won and they played pretty well. Move on to the next game.


CCJ, after watching Cousins yesterday, I want no part of him on this team. A team will never consistently win with a player that has that type of attitude on the court. The long Js, the turnovers, the flopping, that lack of control (he was luck not to get techs on multiple occassions)...he'd drive us crazy. He's a very good rebounder but I saw very little offensively that would make me think he could be a consistent go to scoring threat. His points came versus Seraphin...When Nene was on him he had nothing on offense mentally or physically.


I accept what you're saying about Cousins. Many agree.

I think one reason Seraphin is playing poorly this season is he's not having success in practice against Nene or Okafor. To say Cousins looked bad is to compare a 22-year old on a rookie deal against Nene or Okafor, who are both 30, and who each make $13-14 M. They make 5 times as much and they've got 8 years experience on DeMarcus.

You guys don't want Cousins when teams like the Celtics are making offers for him. I think it depends on what you're willing to endure.

THE REASON I don't like Cousins now is he says he doesn't need counseling. He thinks that is an admission of something wrong with him, rather than seeing it as a way to let assist him in making choices beneficial to himself and his coworkers. DeMarcus is more comfortable offending others or projecting on others rather than being humble and introspective. He seems to be destined to take stay stuck or to get worse.

Regardless, there are successful "jerks" on teams. There are bad guys who help teams win.
Will the Wizards' success be sustained or was it fool's gold?
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Post#323 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:54 am by TGW

jivelikenice wrote:One lastthing on yesterday's game. Wittman's lineup decisions made no sense. Why did he put Temple, Ariza, Jan, and Seraphin on the floor with Wall? He had John on the floor with no shooters!!! Does that make any sense?


That was a terrible lineup, but it's more indicative of the terrible shooters that Grunfeld has amassed over the past few seasons. We have a guard that can literally get into the lane at will, and you gather a bunch of wings that can't shoot, bigs that can't shoot...hell, even the guards can't shoot (except for Beal sometimes).
milellie111 wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Post#324 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:00 pm by dobrojim

nate33 wrote:I don't have a problem with Seraphin's last 3 shots. They were all good looks.

I would to have seen Cousins called for the same offensive hook that Nene was called for.


(just going through the thread now, I'll jump in here)

Agreed on both. I didn't have too big a problem with the shots he took.
Just that they didn't go in. Re - KS shooting jumpers, I would be curious
to know how distance impacts accuracy. Seems to me he's pretty reliable
around the elbow and in the FT circle but drops off considerably
3-5 ft further out. Really wish he had made that late jump hook
from the low left block. I was hoping he was going to take that
shot while watching.

I see now more why everyone wants us to get Cousins, warts and all.
Whether we have the assets to get something done, and whether SAC
actually would want to deal him, warts and all, is another question.

Re SAC moving, I would feel bad for them. I do think SEA deserves
a team though. I would prefer for them to get it through expansion.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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Post#325 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:02 pm by jivelikenice

TGW wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:One lastthing on yesterday's game. Wittman's lineup decisions made no sense. Why did he put Temple, Ariza, Jan, and Seraphin on the floor with Wall? He had John on the floor with no shooters!!! Does that make any sense?


That was a terrible lineup, but it's more indicative of the terrible shooters that Grunfeld has amassed over the past few seasons. We have a guard that can literally get into the lane at will, and you gather a bunch of wings that can't shoot, bigs that can't shoot...hell, even the guards can't shoot (except for Beal sometimes).


Agree, but shouldn't Wittman make sure that he has either Webster or Beal on the court with Wall at all times?

Grunfeld added shooters where he could, but also took on a non-shooter and the non-acquisition of a stretch 4 is apparent. Ariza is just an awful offensive player. Even when he has a step and seems to be on his way for a layup, the ball never makes it close to the hoop. I really don't mind the trade for Okafor. I think he's played very solid ball and will be a valuable trade chip this offseason. Ariza on the other hand?? :roll:
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Post#326 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:04 pm by dobrojim

keynote wrote:Jimmer's giving 'em good minutes - and he hasn't exactly been swiss cheese on defense, either.



+1

Jimmer looked WAY better than when we last saw him in DC.
He was doing an excellent job moving with/without the ball.
I did breath a huge sigh of relief when he bricked the most
open shot he had all night. Jimmer could end up being kind
of like JJ Redick in being a great college player/shooter
that takes 3-5 years to really learn to play in the NBA.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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Post#327 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:05 pm by jivelikenice

CCJ, you misunderstand...I'd want Cousins, but I wouldn't give up the world for him. I would deal the lotto pick and young pieces like Seraphin and Crawford for Lamarcus or Kevin Love, but I wouldn't do it for DMC.
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Post#328 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:09 pm by dobrojim

nate33 wrote:If Wall made the free throws, we would have won.


Capt Obvious says in a 1 point loss there are MANY individual plays
that one might point to and say 'if only...'

mine is when Price had a rebound and fell under SAC's basket. They should have
called a quick timeout. Instead SAC got a 2 pt FG on the play.

Or the point in the game when we gave up back2back bunnies by losing
court balance.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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Post#329 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:15 pm by dobrojim

80sballboy wrote:Same old crap. Witt stayed with Seraphin way too long in the 2nd half. I don't care how many good looks he had, he's such a liability on the other end. Ariza makes me want to throw up every time he touches the ball on offense. Should have won by 10.


I have a strong stomach but you're right about Ariza. His offense in this
game (and most of the year) was atrocious.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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Post#330 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:26 pm by nate33

dobrojim wrote:
nate33 wrote:If Wall made the free throws, we would have won.


Capt Obvious says in a 1 point loss there are MANY individual plays
that one might point to and say 'if only...'

mine is when Price had a rebound and fell under SAC's basket. They should have
called a quick timeout. Instead SAC got a 2 pt FG on the play.

Also true. The point is, people are scapegoating Seraphin as the worst big in history, when instead, if Wall made 2 for 2 FT's, everyone would be celebrating how great the entire team played in a dramatic road victory
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Post#331 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:28 pm by montestewart

dobrojim wrote:
keynote wrote:Jimmer's giving 'em good minutes - and he hasn't exactly been swiss cheese on defense, either.



+1

Jimmer looked WAY better than when we last saw him in DC.
He was doing an excellent job moving with/without the ball.
I did breath a huge sigh of relief when he bricked the most
open shot he had all night. Jimmer could end up being kind
of like JJ Redick in being a great college player/shooter
that takes 3-5 years to really learn to play in the NBA.

His D surprised me. He's OK at staying in front of and harassing taller players. Redick's got more height, but I can see the comparison.
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Post#332 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:31 pm by Ruzious

fishercob wrote:
Nivek wrote:Cousins had a 2-3 minute stretch in the 1st half where he was just killing the Kings. Kept jacking up 18 footers that had not a prayer of going in. That guy has MONSTER talent, but he could be sooooooo much better if he'd stop taking those jack-assed shots and do a better job of valuing possessions.

fish -- BulletsForever's tweet and your comment reminds me of something Dean Oliver told me. Namely that when developing young players you want to emphasize and evaluate the process over the outcome. If you believe the player is talented (like, say, Beal), you don't worry much about him missing 3pt shots at first -- you want him focusing on making the right decisions about when to shoot. Over time, his talent is such that IF he's making the right decisions, the right results will come.

With Seraphin, they have a problem in the process. He continues shooting those sh*t shots. Even if he makes 3-4 in a row, they're still bad shots. Even bad shooters will make a few in a row if they shoot it enough. A guy makes 3 in a row and starts thinking he's "hot." But, when it emboldens him to take MORE bad shots, it ends up hurting the team and hurting him, ultimately.

I don't know what the coaching staff is telling Seraphin, but they need to find a way to get him back in the paint.


Reminds me of what I was screaming about Dray's development some 7 years ago. I wanted rules for him. You must:

(1) Rebound and run the floor hard -- always. If you can't you're coming out
(2) take only 2 types of shots -- (1) at the rim and (2) mid range jumpers off the pass. Nothing off the dribble, no ISO's. Just the Antoine Carr/PJ Brown jumpers
(3) no dribbling. If you put it on the floor more than once off a defensive rebound, or go behind your back in the half court, you;re coming out.

But instead, they were just like "hey look, this guy is 6'11 and can dribble behind his back and then make a fadeaway." And since they didn't curb all that silliness, he never got good at the important stuff, lost his way, and the fans turned on him.

And what makes it more frustrating is - Seraphin was on the right track at the end of last season. Offensively, all he had to do was to build on his repertoir of inside moves and play to contact more - to become a very effective offensive player. But now he's primarily a low percentage perimeter jump shooter. What process caused that change? The Wiz front office and coaching staff have to be accountable here. I see a lot Whitman scowling and yelling at Seraphin. Well, that hasn't worked, and Seraphin has played the same way pretty much every game this season. There's a breakdown that needs to be corrected.
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Post#333 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:41 pm by dobrojim

Agreed. KS's biggest current flaw to my eye is his inability
to react to double teams.

But I also agree with Nivek's premise in an earlier post...
reminded me of what an opp player once said about the
Bullet's Cliff Robinson. If he's hot early, you don't worry
so much because the odds will eventually catch up with him.

we need to get some Ws on the road. All the happy talk
after 3 straight ignored the fact that we've only won once
on the road. That said, ORL turned around and beat a good
team last night (IND?) and ATL also won (maybe by suspending
Josh Smith's dumb@ss).

Doubt we'll beat LAC, but the wouldn't be shocked to see us
win any of the other road games (prob not DEN). They are
playing much better and Beal is a stud.
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Post#334 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:44 pm by jivelikenice

nate33 wrote:Also true. The point is, people are scapegoating Seraphin as the worst big in history, when instead, if Wall made 2 for 2 FT's, everyone would be celebrating how great the entire team played in a dramatic road victory


Not true Nate...The game shouldn't have come down to the final possession.
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Post#335 Re: Wizards @ Kings - 01/16/13 10:00PM EST
Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:50 pm by DCZards

dobrojim wrote:
nate33 wrote:If Wall made the free throws, we would have won.


Capt Obvious says in a 1 point loss there are MANY individual plays
that one might point to and say 'if only...'

mine is when Price had a rebound and fell under SAC's basket. They should have
called a quick timeout. Instead SAC got a 2 pt FG on the play.

Or the point in the game when we gave up back2back bunnies by losing
court balance.



There are a lot of plays during the course of a game that you can point to as the reason(s) a team lost. You hit on the three that come to mind for me as well. Webster (I think it was Webster and not Price) falling down under the basket with a rebound and then having a Sac player take the ball from him for a layup; and the back2back easy buckets they got when the Zards D didn't get back. Those plays really hurt.
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