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Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:51 pm
by Nivek
We're on page 99 on the other one, and this seems like a good way to start off a new thread --
with my response to Chris Broussard's article about whether Wall has hit his ceiling.
Other players whose first two years were similar to Wall's (or less productive): Payton, Westbrook, Isiah, Deron Williams, Nash, Billups. These scouts might well have argued that these guys had hit their ceilings after two years. And then...they all started playing MUCH better.
Wall's future is in Wall's hands. If he works on his game and improves, he can be as good as any of these guys. If he doesn't...it's his own fault.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:06 pm
by AFM
HE A BUST HE A BUST.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:13 pm
by TheKingOfVa360
Yeah that article was trash but the Wizards fan base support him less than every other fan base support their potential stars. It's time to stop being so harsh and support our young players. Because if we don't no body will.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:41 pm
by montestewart
Nivek wrote:We're on page 99 on the other one, and this seems like a good way to start off a new thread --
with my response to Chris Broussard's article about whether Wall has hit his ceiling.
Other players whose first two years were similar to Wall's (or less productive): Payton, Westbrook, Isiah, Deron Williams, Nash, Billups. These scouts might well have argued that these guys had hit their ceilings after two years. And then...they all started playing MUCH better.
Wall's future is in Wall's hands. If he works on his game and improves, he can be as good as any of these guys. If he doesn't...it's his own fault.
Agree that Wall has much control over his outcome, and that those and other prior examples show that a player can overcome less-than-spectacular first two years to become a top flight PG. It is important that he, his teammates, coaches, and management be honest and realistic about where he might end up (with work) and where he is now.
There was a subtext in that article. A number of the anonymous sources more than tacitly indicted Wizards ownership/management for building a team around Wall that forced him into a go-to scorer role because of the lack of good shooters to pass the ball to. The author concluded Wall was a score-first PG, when his own sources indicated that Wall's scoring mentality was as much as much as anything else a reaction to his current circumstances. I guess the author doesn't actually read what he wrote.
As to being a fan, I've directly subsidized player salaries for years through ticket purchases, and even though I'm taking (at least) a year off, I still contribute to the team's television revenue as a viewer. I call that being a fan. I was never into the booing of Blatche just because he came into the game (I'd at least wait until he did something incredibly sucky), and I would yell down LeBJ-Heat/Kobe-Lakers/Celtics/Knicks/Spurs fanboys til there was no voice left. Don't know what else to do. A "Dear John" letter?
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:14 pm
by Wes_Tiny_Abe_
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq-NIrgg9kU[/youtube]
Baltimore Native ZerbraMAN > John Wall
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:33 pm
by Nivek
montestewart wrote:Agree that Wall has much control over his outcome, and that those and other prior examples show that a player can overcome less-than-spectacular first two years to become a top flight PG. It is important that he, his teammates, coaches, and management be honest and realistic about where he might end up (with work) and where he is now.
Agree completely. He needs to be working on the right things.
There was a subtext in that article. A number of the anonymous sources more than tacitly indicted Wizards ownership/management for building a team around Wall that forced him into a go-to scorer role because of the lack of good shooters to pass the ball to. The author concluded Wall was a score-first PG, when his own sources indicated that Wall's scoring mentality was as much as much as anything else a reaction to his current circumstances. I guess the author doesn't actually read what he wrote.
Those scouts were clearly underestimating Wall's magical ability to make guys shoot better with his penetration and passing.
Actually, I think this might be a case where the front office perhaps overvalued those effects. Once they had Wall, they've seemed to buy into this notion that they should put guys with him who can run and jump. What they needed, however is what they still need: skilled basketball players. Wall can be a one-man fast break at times. Plus, given how small the floor is, you don't actually need sprinters to run a fast break. The Bird-era Celtics were devastating in transition and no one on that team could be described as "fast."
Lots of other examples like that. A team can be excellent in transition with guys who anticipate, run hard and pass the ball up the floor. Shawn Marion was fast, but the secret of his transition success in Phoenix wasn't speed. It was that he ran hard every time down the floor, and Nash was willing to pass the ball ahead instead of dribbling it up.
As to being a fan, I've directly subsidized player salaries for years through ticket purchases, and even though I'm taking (at least) a year off, I still contribute to the team's television revenue as a viewer. I call that being a fan. I was never into the booing of Blatche just because he came into the game (I'd at least wait until he did something incredibly sucky), and I would yell down LeBJ-Heat/Kobe-Lakers/Celtics/Knicks/Spurs fanboys til there was no voice left. Don't know what else to do. A "Dear John" letter?
Yeah. I've been expressing my displeasure with the team here and over at the blog and on Twitter. I gave up my season tix a few years ago so I can't cancel them in disgust.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:31 pm
by payitforward
montestewart wrote:Nivek wrote:Wall's future is in Wall's hands. If he works on his game and improves, he can be as good as any of these guys. If he doesn't...it's his own fault.
Agree that Wall has much control over his outcome....
Wall can control what he works on and how hard he works. But even if he works hard on the right things, he can't control outcomes. It seems likely that he'll improve -- but how much is an open question.
It's really not hard to know where he's deficient. If you look at only PGs who played 30+ minutes/game last year -- essentially looking at the starters around the league -- Wall was 5th in FTAs, 6th in rebounding rate, 8th in assists, above average in steals, and well better than average in fewest fouls. He can improve in those areas, you can always improve, but there isn't room there for him to get *a lot* better in these parts of the game.
Especially compared to his shooting:
of the 30, he had the 2d worst eFG%. His 2pt FG% was 5th from the bottom. His TS% was 6th from the bottom.
Moreover, most of the other 29 guys *helped* their eFG% (and therefore their TS%) w/ their 3point shooting, while John's 3pt% was abysmal. Sub-abysmal.
In those areas there's much much more room for improvement. This kid can't shoot. Full stop. I'd hate to see how his *jumpshot* % compared to others on the list. That must be brutal. So... that's what he has to work on. Forget everything else; just get better at that.
He was also 3d worst in TOs among those 30, but that seems less important for the moment than his totally disastrous shooting.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:20 am
by blazinskillz
I thought this was suppose to be appreciation? 4 games back and you would of swore the opposite. Make a sucky John Wall thread if you're not gonna appreciate him.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:03 am
by jivelikenice
2 more outside Js today. He's probably hit more in these 4 games than he did the first month of last season. He won't ever be great, but if he could hit a couple a game and maintain that confidence, he'll be fine. I love how he responded off of yesterday's finish and knocked down both fts to seal it.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:06 am
by dangermouse
In the last thread, or the "other games" thread, i cant find my post. But i said it would be good if we got Gary Payton to come in and give Wall some pointers.
And lo and behold! According to the Nuggs broadcast team, Wall himself has reached out to The Glove himself!
Your welcome John
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:24 am
by Illmatic21
dangermouse wrote:In the last thread, or the "other games" thread, i cant find my post. But i said it would be good if we got Gary Payton to come in and give Wall some pointers.
And lo and behold! According to the Nuggs broadcast team, Wall himself has reached out to The Glove himself!
Your welcome John
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... ng-in-nba/
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:17 am
by willbcocks
A few things to appreciate:
Wall clearly wants to be a star and is willing to do what it takes. (Though it's unclear he knows fully what that entails, I.e., the potato chip diet)
Wall always plays hard on the court, on both ends.
It's hard to fault the attitude or the effort.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:51 pm
by nate33
jivelikenice wrote:2 more outside Js today. He's probably hit more in these 4 games than he did the first month of last season. He won't ever be great, but if he could hit a couple a game and maintain that confidence, he'll be fine. I love how he responded off of yesterday's finish and knocked down both fts to seal it.
His form looked better on those too.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:54 pm
by GhostsOfGil
Wall is now averaging 12.4 assists per 36 minutes as a shoot first pg.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:12 pm
by nate33
Wall played 26 minutes last night. He played 9 consecutive minutes in the middle of each half, plus another 4 minutes at the end of the 2nd and 4th quarters. Even if there is a minutes cap on Wall, I'd like to see him moved to the starting lineup. Surely, it's easier to play four 7-minute stretches at the start and finish of each half (for 28 minutes total), than it is to play 9-4-9-4 like he did last night.
Wall just fits better with the starters because they have the shooters (Beal and Webster) to open up his game. If I have to see Wall out there alongside Temple, Ariza and Vesely again, I think I'll puke.
The second unit is probably better off with AJ Price who can at least hit a 3-pointer to stretch the floor. Run the 2nd unit through the Crawford/Seraphin pick-and-roll set, with Price and Ariza spaced out on the perimeter and Booker working the weak side for offensive boards.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:18 pm
by Nivek
GhostsOfGil wrote:Wall is now averaging 12.4 assists per 36 minutes as a shoot first pg.
If this was Twitter, I'd hit retweet.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:39 pm
by Chocolate City Jordanaire
Illmatic21 wrote:dangermouse wrote:In the last thread, or the "other games" thread, i cant find my post. But i said it would be good if we got Gary Payton to come in and give Wall some pointers.
And lo and behold! According to the Nuggs broadcast team, Wall himself has reached out to The Glove himself!
Your welcome John
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... ng-in-nba/
(
Keep reading, John, if you are of course. Your prayers will be answered. Also, don't be afraid to shoot the three. Just OCCASIONALLY shoot it, in rhythm, believing the shot is going in. Even if it doesn't your teammates will rebound. Do put a bit of arc on the ball.)
I appreciate the team around John and him for being humble enough to take the criticism in stride, but fiery enough to make his critics look foolish. John reaching out to Payton is the type of thing a leader would do. Everyone can use a good mentor. it shows Wall is dedicated to improving and not content to rest at where he is.
If Wall continues to not force things, continues to stand out on defense, and continues to get others involved the way he has; John will be better than Gary Payton.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:34 pm
by miller31time
Through 5 games, John Wall is averaging a per-36 of 22.8pts, 11.1asts, 3.8rebs, 1.8stls and 1.5blks.
His PER is 25.2 which puts him 6th in the NBA.
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:06 pm
by jivelikenice
The great thing about this is John still has areas where he can easily improve and has had some tough breaks with shots rimming out. I've also noticed hat his decision making is better when he's on the floor with Beal and Webster. When he has shooters, he's more inclined to make he easy pass. When he doesn't trust the players on the floor with him he tries to do too much or force difficult passes. I the 4th, his passing improved greatly when Néne and Beal were on the floor. I know he's on a minutes restriction, but Witt has to find a way to get the right combos more minutes....
Re: Official John Wall Appreciation Thread 2.0
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:02 pm
by TheKingOfVa360
miller31time wrote:Through 5 games, John Wall is averaging a per-36 of 22.8pts, 11.1asts, 3.8rebs, 1.8stls and 1.5blks.
His PER is 25.2 which puts him 6th in the NBA.
Wow that is amazing. Safe to say Wall has taken his game to another level this season. He's playing like a superstar and like maybe the 2nd best PG in the NBA so far (small sample size). His defense is amazing, have no doubt he will be the premier defender at the pg position for years to come.