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Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM EST

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Post#331 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:53 am by hands11

sfam wrote:
hands11 wrote:BG was 5-18. He was bailed out all night.

Only other player that put up point for them was CP3 who was 6-16 with 9 FTA.

Blake was 5-18 with 10 FTA.

I bet Blake give Joey good knob.

And even with all the bad calls, Wizard still could have won if they hit more FTA and rebounded better.

LAC looked like a machine in the first, but the Wizards exposed them for the chumps they are. Even with all the opportunities the Wizard missed on, LAC wouldn't have won with help from the refs.


Well lets not go too far. Clearly the Clippers were having an off shooting night. I can't remember Griffin missing that many from inside before. And their defense was pretty damn solid. In fact I'm really impressed the Wizards did as well as they did considering the defense they faced.


Go what far. Its a fact.

You can focus on what the Wizard could have done more that was in their control but the fact is, they did enough to be right there at the end. If not for the refs calls to help the Clippers they would not have won that game. It not about what the Wizards didn't do. Its about what the refs did do.

What is this logic that a team should have to score an extra 10 pts to overcome the refs.

Last night the Wizards played well enough to overcome the refs. Tonight, they didn't. That is a BS way to have play the game. Call the damn game. Let the players determine who wins.
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Post#332 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:53 am by nuposse04

sfam wrote:
hands11 wrote:BG was 5-18. He was bailed out all night.

Only other player that put up point for them was CP3 who was 6-16 with 9 FTA.

Blake was 5-18 with 10 FTA.

I bet Blake give Joey good knob.

And even with all the bad calls, Wizard still could have won if they hit more FTA and rebounded better.

LAC looked like a machine in the first, but the Wizards exposed them for the chumps they are. Even with all the opportunities the Wizard missed on, LAC wouldn't have won with help from the refs.


Well lets not go too far. Clearly the Clippers were having an off shooting night. I can't remember Griffin missing that many from inside before. And their defense was pretty damn solid. In fact I'm really impressed the Wizards did as well as they did considering the defense they faced.


They let them play for a good portion of the game, but I think once Joey realized it may cost the clips a game, he saved them the embarrassment. Ariza actually did a damn good job on Jamal. His offensive inconsistencies are still pretty annoying, but he deserves praise for his play every now and then
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Post#333 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:57 am by hands11

This league is like the mob running the horses.

It makes me sick.

I would love to see the refs interviewed post game and questioned on bad calls and have them explain why the call was made the way it was. That would be educational and entertaining.
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Post#334 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:59 am by mhd

CCJ, I DO know that Marc Cuban knows of realgm. He actually answered an email from me once and said so himself.
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Post#335 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:02 am by sfam

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:One of the biggest calls of the night was the carry called against Wall by Erick Lewis. (Thanks 80s for calling Lewis out.)

The Wizards were very much in the game and Lewis made a call after Del Negro screamed at him, well after the violation. No way that call gets made against Chris Paul.

I hate it in any sport when the refs make marginal calls at crunch time. Really, they just shouldn't be the ones determining the game. Yeah, Wall did palm it, but it wasn't a gross palming or anything. Common refs, let the teams place ball in the last two minutes.
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Post#336 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:03 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

mhd wrote:CCJ, I DO know that Marc Cuban knows of realgm. He actually answered an email from me once and said so himself.


He got fined for his letter about the officiating. If he cannot help this situation, I think nothing short of someone getting indicted will.

I just stick to watching basketball for the love of it but stuff like the refs and the recent news on Billy Hunter and the man Hunter found dead would REALLY make you wonder. For my perspective, let fans enjoy games. The terrible stuff that might be going on is something that is on the side and takes away from the greatest game known to man: basketball. I just want to watch a game.

I know there are nights officials make human mistakes. But in my opinion there are obvious agendas at work at times with officiating crews. Last season, the NBA playoff officiating was so terrible that I didn't even enjoy watching. I like MLB's playoffs and the World Series a lot. And I'm not a baseball guy. The NBA turned me off the way the league is pandering to superstars, home teams, and letting officials at times run amok.

I just want to enjoy the games and the Wizards.
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Post#337 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:13 am by hands11

So a Wizards team with Wall off the bench and just getting its pull rotation of players back one game ago come with in a few pts or some none sucky ref calls of beating LAC on the road on a back to back after beating Denver.

They help LAC to 36% shooting and 5-21 from 3 23%

Either LAC are not as good as advertised or the Wizards are a lot better then advertised.
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Post#338 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:32 am by nuposse04

hands11 wrote:So a Wizards team with Wall off the bench and just getting its pull rotation of players back one game ago come with in a few pts or some none sucky ref calls of beating LAC on the road on a back to back after beating Denver.

They help LAC to 36% shooting and 5-21 from 3 23%

Either LAC are not as good as advertised or the Wizards are a lot better then advertised.


Its somewhere in-between. This team, with Wall back, would be above .500, easily, no questions in my mind. You can say it'll be a blessing in that we'll get a useful lotto pick out of it barring a miraculous run. We match up well with athletic unskilled teams, and badly with FCs that actually have some skill in their game. We still lost the game on rebounding. Randy shouldn't allow a single damn player to leak out in transition until all 5 guys crash the boards. Jan shoulda gotten minutes over Seraphin tonight. Seraphin played tired and like he didn't know what he was doing. He's the Rod Gardner of basketball, completely 50/50.
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Post#339 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:24 am by dangermouse

Crawford SUCKS.

Which Crawford? All of them tonight except Jamal.
Fri Jul 5, 2013 4:36 am by dangermouse
dangermouse wrote:44 is my best guess.

I think we make the playoffs, no lower than 6th seed.
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Post#340 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:21 am by MD's Finest

Everytime I have seen us go against Griffin he seems to get the most ticky tack calls, and they seem to call allot of contact that he initiates in the post. The fake elbow and the booker fouls were bad but there was one where he got stuck under the bakset and jumped backward into Nene and flailed with no real shot attempt and got a call. With the poor rebounding, FT shooting and turnovers can't really say the refs cost us the game but they definitely made it a tougher climb.

The best part I think about the game was the fact the Wiz did not havea great game and still were right there, they just never let the Clips put them away and if not for a couple big plays from CP3 and some bad FT shooting really could have had this one down the stretch. I just like the whole vibe of the team right now, everyone seems into it and they are getting contributions from so many guys.
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Post#341 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:16 am by BigA

Clippers were -12.5 last night. Wizards have now covered for 6 straight games.
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Post#342 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:17 am by nate33

MD's Finest wrote:The best part I think about the game was the fact the Wiz did not havea great game and still were right there, they just never let the Clips put them away and if not for a couple big plays from CP3 and some bad FT shooting really could have had this one down the stretch. I just like the whole vibe of the team right now, everyone seems into it and they are getting contributions from so many guys.

This.

Despite playing poorly offensively, despite lopsided officiating, and despite missing a boatload of free throws, the Wizards gave one of the best teams in the league all they could handle, on the road, on a back to back. If the Wizards can bring this effort and defensive intensity every night, they're going to easily win more than half of their remaining games.

I hate to say this, because it's dangerously close to giving EG credit, but I kinda like the way the team is constructed. Everybody on the roster defends. The bigs are all physical on defense. With Beal, Webster, Price and Cartier Martin on the perimeter, the guards actually shoot like professional basketball player should. Nene and Seraphin can score on the block and usually require a double team. Most of the players are unselfish and are willing to move the ball.

I really feel like the overall character and style of play of this team is that of a contender. They play the right way. The only problem is that there isn't contender-level talent on the roster. Okafor does his best with the gifts God gave him, but he's no Tyson Chandler as a defensive anchor. He's just not long enough. Likewise, Nene and Seraphin are good at PF when they're at their best, but Nene is rarely 100% and Seraphin is still way too inconsistent. I like Ariza and Webster for the things that they bring to the team, and both are borderline starting-caliber players, but neither are above-average starters. If you could combine Ariza's defense with Webster's you would have the ideal SF. Beal has been great on offense in January, but he still suffers from typical rookie inexperience on defense. Wall is fine.
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Post#343 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:45 am by dangermouse

Seraphin has had 2 games in a row where he defended the post about as well as anyone. He didnt give an inch.
Fri Jul 5, 2013 4:36 am by dangermouse
dangermouse wrote:44 is my best guess.

I think we make the playoffs, no lower than 6th seed.
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Post#344 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:50 am by hands11

dangermouse wrote:Crawford SUCKS.

Which Crawford? All of them tonight except Jamal.


News Flash. Jamal sucked tonight

It was not a good night for Crawfords.
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Post#345 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:05 am by dangermouse

Oh yeah, he wasnt great. But at least he didnt hurt his team.
Fri Jul 5, 2013 4:36 am by dangermouse
dangermouse wrote:44 is my best guess.

I think we make the playoffs, no lower than 6th seed.
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Post#346 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:12 am by hands11

MD's Finest wrote:Everytime I have seen us go against Griffin he seems to get the most ticky tack calls, and they seem to call allot of contact that he initiates in the post. The fake elbow and the booker fouls were bad but there was one where he got stuck under the bakset and jumped backward into Nene and flailed with no real shot attempt and got a call. With the poor rebounding, FT shooting and turnovers can't really say the refs cost us the game but they definitely made it a tougher climb.

The best part I think about the game was the fact the Wiz did not have a great game and still were right there, they just never let the Clips put them away and if not for a couple big plays from CP3 and some bad FT shooting really could have had this one down the stretch. I just like the whole vibe of the team right now, everyone seems into it and they are getting contributions from so many guys.


Right :roll: What was that ?

As for this logic that the refs don't cost teams games. I never understood that. I think people get confused by what coaches tell you and what players say in interviews and what is happening in reality.

Regardless of how many opportunities you miss, if you are in the game down by 1 with 2 minutes to go and the refs made several game deciding crap calls and they all go to one team over the other, then the refs cost you the game. Bad calls costing the game is the very reason they implemented instant reply. Of course the refs can cost you the game.

No one expects them to get it right all the time. Missed calls is part of the game. Usually they realize they missed a call and they do a make up call to equal things out. It looks more sloppy when they do this because now instead of one bad call you see two, but at least it equals out. But when they continually make no calls for your post players like Nene when he get contact and they always call it for the other teams player even when he literally just runs right through a defender that is standing his ground of he jumps backward into a defender that is standing their ground, then the ref do determine the outcome. If the refs calls give one team a +4 or 6 or 8 pts advantage and that is the difference between you being down 2 or up 4 down the stretch, then that is them costing you the game.

The game is supposed to be won or loss by the players on the court. You should not be able to notice an advantage to one team or the other by the refs.

In all fairness, when I was watching the first half, I thought they did a decent job and I was thinking to myself, oh, so this is what it is like to have the better refs call a game. Then the second half happen. Nevermind.
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Post#347 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:13 am by montestewart

dangermouse wrote:Seraphin has had 2 games in a row where he defended the post about as well as anyone. He didnt give an inch.

It's difficult to watch refs repeatedly pamper, defer to, and give benefit of doubt to Griffin, who seems to foul, travel, or otherwise violate the rules on almost every play. Such treatment may be the reason he's considered near "superstar," but he's good regardless, with quick moves and good body control for his size. Seraphin had a lot to do with Griffin's lousy game. I wish I saw that all the time, and I wish he had more awareness of the ball and his man after the shot. Zero offensive rebounds?
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Post#348 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:23 am by closg00

After Paul’s 17-foot jumper put the Clippers ahead, 91-86, with 32.4 seconds remaining, Wall complained to the referee that he was shoved. And reserve forward Trevor Booker had to be restrained from Griffin, whom Booker alleges hit him in the face with an elbow as the two tussled for the rebound.

“He should’ve got kicked out of the game for it,” Booker said of Griffin. “Hopefully they go review it after the game and I’m looking for a suspension at least. I mean, he elbowed me to my face.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

This^ pretty-much sums-up the officiating part of the game :evil:
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Post#349 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:40 am by Chocolate City Jordanaire

hands11 wrote:
MD's Finest wrote:Everytime I have seen us go against Griffin he seems to get the most ticky tack calls, and they seem to call allot of contact that he initiates in the post. The fake elbow and the booker fouls were bad but there was one where he got stuck under the bakset and jumped backward into Nene and flailed with no real shot attempt and got a call. With the poor rebounding, FT shooting and turnovers can't really say the refs cost us the game but they definitely made it a tougher climb.

The best part I think about the game was the fact the Wiz did not have a great game and still were right there, they just never let the Clips put them away and if not for a couple big plays from CP3 and some bad FT shooting really could have had this one down the stretch. I just like the whole vibe of the team right now, everyone seems into it and they are getting contributions from so many guys.


Right :roll: What was that ?

As for this logic that the refs don't cost teams games. I never understood that. I think people get confused by what coaches tell you and what players say in interviews and what is happening in reality.

Regardless of how many opportunities you miss, if you are in the game down by 1 with 2 minutes to go and the refs made several game deciding crap calls and they all go to one team over the other, then the refs cost you the game. Bad calls costing the game is the very reason they implemented instant reply. Of course the refs can cost you the game.

No one expects them to get it right all the time. Missed calls is part of the game. Usually they realize they missed a call and they do a make up call to equal things out. It looks more sloppy when they do this because now instead of one bad call you see two, but at least it equals out. But when they continually make no calls for your post players like Nene when he get contact and they always call it for the other teams player even when he literally just runs right through a defender that is standing his ground of he jumps backward into a defender that is standing their ground, then the ref do determine the outcome. If the refs calls give one team a +4 or 6 or 8 pts advantage and that is the difference between you being down 2 or up 4 down the stretch, then that is them costing you the game.

The game is supposed to be won or loss by the players on the court. You should not be able to notice an advantage to one team or the other by the refs.

In all fairness, when I was watching the first half, I thought they did a decent job and I was thinking to myself, oh, so this is what it is like to have the better refs call a game. Then the second half happen. Nevermind.


Great posts.

hands, the game seemed like it was going to be a great one until IMO the Wizards got too close. The score was 50-52 and the Wizards were thoroughly outplaying the Clippers. The refs took over at that point. That is when the plays MD's Finest mentioned started happening. The sequence of calls against Nene were accompanied by non-calls when the Clippers hit him as he shot. The refs called Nene worse than they do rookies they don't know or don't like. Joey Crawford and Erick Lewis put the game away more than the Clips did.

Instead of saying that refs don't cause outcomes I think it is possible that some do so on a regular basis. Do you remember Tim Donaghy?

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/14 ... bling-site
Convicted Felon, Former NBA Ref Tim Donaghy Lands Job With Gambling Site


I think Donaghy is honest compared to some refs who regularly call NBA games.
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Post#350 Re: Wizards @ Clippers - 1/19/13 - 10:30 PM E
Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:55 am by sfam

I don't think I buy that refs are getting extra financial compensation to throw games, which is the implication being discussed. That's certainly possible, obviously. But I think its more their culture of giving extra benefit to home teams, and even more extra to perennial all-stars. When a team is tops in the league, it seems to me like their home team status happens everywhere. This, I think, is the problem. I would have a hard time believing that most refs wouldn't fess up to this.

Given that the Wizards are bottom of the barrel with no all-stars and practically everyone on the Clippers roster seems to have been an all-star at one point or another, its not exactly shocking that this happened.

Still, they really should have refrained at least in the last two minutes. That just takes the standard from merely unfair to flat out rigged.
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