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Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - 4/1/13)

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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#861 » by gambitx777 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:58 am

nate33 wrote:Yes. I think we should strongly consider trading Wall if we get top 5 pick type talent in return. But if we did so, we would first need a plan to find an acceptable replacement at PG. This season proved that this offense is horrific without a competent point guard running the show.

Trading Wall made a lot of sense in conjunction with my Nene for Bledsoe + Odom idea. Unfortunately, with the Trade Deadline having passed, there is no opportunity to acquire Bledsoe. I'm not sure what other PG's are available that a good enough and young enough to be credible a building block, or at least a stop gap.


Well, i think that maybe, we could find that in this draft, Smart, Williams, Burke and McCollum all look promising. I am not sure if one of those four could prove an up grade or at the very least an equal replacement.

personally i think if we dump NENE, Okafur, Ariza, Jan, and Singleton we would be in good shape
IF we can find suitable young replacements for them get what you can for jan and single ton, and try to find a younger center, porter and webster can make up for ariza, and we need to dump nene jsut because his contract.

I think that piston deal i posted could get us the best return.

jivelikenice wrote:Totally disagree with trading Wall. We have a young backcourt that compliments each other and won't get in each others way. This team is finally showing signs of real progress and growth. Why reset again. Why risk backcourt chemistry? This offseason's plan is simple enough.
1. draft Porter
2. Re-sign Mar tell
3. Sign a combo guard capable of playing the 1/2
4. Trade Okafor or Ariza if you're offered a quality 4 from a team that's looking to create cap space

Time for continuity. The lack of continuity has surely slowed Wall down....lets not put Beal in a similar situation


The reason is that if we stay healthy, at best, we are what we were before, good, play off bound, but not contenders. If we do not do it right now, we will be stuck with a few years of moderate success, and then another rebuild.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#862 » by jivelikenice » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:14 am

^dont get that logic. We're only who we are now as a healthy team if Wall and Beal don't continue to improve and if we get nothing out of a lottery pick. Also considering how old Wall/Beal/and whomever we pick are (hopefully Otto), it will be a while before the next rebuild...
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#863 » by Deivy202 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:08 am

Keep Wall we need all the help we can get .
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#864 » by fishercob » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:26 pm

nate33 wrote:Yes. I think we should strongly consider trading Wall if we get top 5 pick type talent in return. But if we did so, we would first need a plan to find an acceptable replacement at PG. This season proved that this offense is horrific without a competent point guard running the show.

Trading Wall made a lot of sense in conjunction with my Nene for Bledsoe + Odom idea. Unfortunately, with the Trade Deadline having passed, there is no opportunity to acquire Bledsoe. I'm not sure what other PG's are available that a good enough and young enough to be credible a building block, or at least a stop gap.


Wall and Seraphin for Lowry and Valanciunus
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#865 » by nate33 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:17 pm

fishercob wrote:
nate33 wrote:Yes. I think we should strongly consider trading Wall if we get top 5 pick type talent in return. But if we did so, we would first need a plan to find an acceptable replacement at PG. This season proved that this offense is horrific without a competent point guard running the show.

Trading Wall made a lot of sense in conjunction with my Nene for Bledsoe + Odom idea. Unfortunately, with the Trade Deadline having passed, there is no opportunity to acquire Bledsoe. I'm not sure what other PG's are available that a good enough and young enough to be credible a building block, or at least a stop gap.


Wall and Seraphin for Lowry and Valanciunus

That's tempting. If we added Otto Porter in the draft and resigned Webster, that's a pretty good young core. Okafor and Ariza stick around for another yet to set the tone, and then we let them depart and add a max free agent in 2014 (hopefully an offensively-capable PF). In two years, our lineup would look like this:

PG Lowry/2014 draft pick?
SG Beal/Webster
SF Porter/Webster
PF max salary free agent*/Nene
C Valanciunas/Nene

*Bosh or Aldridge would be nice targets.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#866 » by sfam » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:58 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Totally disagree with trading Wall. We have a young backcourt that compliments each other and won't get in each others way. This team is finally showing signs of real progress and growth. Why reset again. Why risk backcourt chemistry? This offseason's plan is simple enough.
1. draft Porter
2. Re-sign Mar tell
3. Sign a combo guard capable of playing the 1/2
4. Trade Okafor or Ariza if you're offered a quality 4 from a team that's looking to create cap space

Time for continuity. The lack of continuity has surely slowed Wall down....lets not put Beal in a similar situation


The reason is that if we stay healthy, at best, we are what we were before, good, play off bound, but not contenders. If we do not do it right now, we will be stuck with a few years of moderate success, and then another rebuild.


Continual rebuild rarely leads anywhere good. Thinking that Wall has reached his ceiling now and that we need to unload him is wildly premature. I totally agree that this is the time for continuity. You just can expect young talent to develop in an environment with continual instability. This is one reason why the San Antonios of the world develop their talent better than the Wizards. Lets get things on track for a year or two, even if this leaves us around .550 for the season. Only then will we have a really good idea where we are, and whether our younger talent will ever develop.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#867 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:38 pm

Anyone saying we should trade Wall now is crazy. The guy is 22 years old, let's give him a full healthy off season this summer to prove himself. Next year should be his break out year. Time to focus on grooming our young talent instead of dumping them for mediocre talent.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#868 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:41 pm

nate, I have advocated trading Wall and getting a pick plus a solid player. Nivek had a post that showed Wall to be equivalent to a #5 pick in his rating scale. I replied to that post that in this draft if you get a top-5 pick I think there's a 50-50 chance that player ends up better than Wall.

sfam, however, is making a good point about continuity. Where the debate lies is whether Wall has reached his ceiling. To me he is the same player he's always been, but I'm not watching that closely. One thing he has to be doing differently know is he expects more wins, because the team CAN win now. That didn't happen in the past. They are winning because of his skill as a facilitator, Wall's speed, and his defense. Continuity being what it is, the team is starting to be more cohesive with Wall as the focal point.

If you trade Wall, it starts another rebuild and introduces the instability that sfam mentioned.

I think if you know you're getting a superstar, and you're not unwilling to also move Nene and/or Okafor's deals to get younger bigs for the long haul; then it might be feasible to trade John Wall for the superstar (you think you're drafting).

Would you trade Wall if you know you'd get Trey Burke or CJ McCollum and a future pick, along with having drafted Porter? I think I would give it some thought for sure, but I don't know what that would do with the continuity of the team.
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#869 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:44 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:Anyone saying we should trade Wall now is crazy. The guy is 22 years old, let's give him a full healthy off season this summer to prove himself. Next year should be his break out year. Time to focus on grooming our young talent instead of dumping them for mediocre talent.


This year is last season's next year, when Wall is supposed to broken out by now. How's he performing?

The team certainly is doing something we're not accustomed to, and that is winning games regularly. Wall is a big part of that. TKOV360, I'm not on a "Trade Wall" campaign, however. I am sitting on the fence on this one. The reason to entertain a thought would be obtaining a better player than Wall based on Wall being valued as a superstar by some team that would trade for him. You don't trade Wall away without getting a whole lot back.

I would not want Ernie Grunfeld trading Wall! :evil:
Bye bye Beal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#870 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:42 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
TheKingOfVa360 wrote:Anyone saying we should trade Wall now is crazy. The guy is 22 years old, let's give him a full healthy off season this summer to prove himself. Next year should be his break out year. Time to focus on grooming our young talent instead of dumping them for mediocre talent.


This year is last season's next year, when Wall is supposed to broken out by now. How's he performing?

The team certainly is doing something we're not accustomed to, and that is winning games regularly. Wall is a big part of that. TKOV360, I'm not on a "Trade Wall" campaign, however. I am sitting on the fence on this one. The reason to entertain a thought would be obtaining a better player than Wall based on Wall being valued as a superstar by some team that would trade for him. You don't trade Wall away without getting a whole lot back.

I would not want Ernie Grunfeld trading Wall! :evil:



CCJ we both know Wall was injured this off season and missed half of the season. It's not fair to judge any player under those circumstances. Look at HOF players like Dirk and how poorly he is playing this year. It's not easy for any NBA player to miss half of the season then have a career year.

I understand why you are the fence, you have every right to feel that way. But it won't happen in real life, Wall won't be traded anytime soon. I personally want Wall to earn an extension next season not be giving one. He need's to really break down his game and rebuild it this summer if he wants any chance of achieving his potential. If we could get a superstar back for Wall then yes I understand why you would want to trade him. Sadly I don't see that happening until Wall plays up to the level he is capable of. I honestly think Wall and the Wizards will have a big year next year. We will make a playoff push, Wall will make his first of many all-star games and get his big extension.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#871 » by jivelikenice » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:01 pm

^Injury factor has to be accounted for. He basically was inactive for 3 months. For a player working on particular skills that needed improvement, that time off was a killer. Dirk has come back slowly & I think Granger will have a tough time of it also....all that being said, his presence has helped in the win column....don't know how to quantify his full impact, but its there.

Edit....Dwight is another guy who's been slow to recover off an injury, and he had the benefit of camp at least.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#872 » by Dat2U » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:16 pm

Hmm, we were 4-28 without Wall... somehow were only 13-9 with Wall. So obviously the solution by many here is to trade Wall because he's obviously the problem.

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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#873 » by Dat2U » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:19 pm

Oh if only we could trade Wall for Darren Collison and a late lottery pick to draft the next European stud, Rudy Goubert. That would really put us over the top, lol.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#874 » by nate33 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:50 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:CCJ we both know Wall was injured this off season and missed half of the season. It's not fair to judge any player under those circumstances. Look at HOF players like Dirk and how poorly he is playing this year. It's not easy for any NBA player to miss half of the season then have a career year.

Wall was healthy in the offseason. He didn't hurt his knee until just before the preseason. It's not like he was sitting out all summer rehabbing after surgery. He was working on his game.

I"m a little leery of the constant excuses for Wall. Before his rookie year, the excuse was he didn't understand how hard he needed to work. Before his 2nd year, the excuse was the lockout. Before his third year, the excuse is an injury even though he had about 4 months after the season ended and before his injury.

This is his third season. He hasn't shown any significant improvement since his first. How much do guards typically improve beyond their 3rd season? I think it's time to start considering that there won't be a dramatic turnaround. What we see is what we get. He'll improve incrementally, but not all that much. That means he is a solid player, but not an elite one. Nobody is saying we should arbitrarily dump Wall, but if we can trade him for a quality starter plus a high pick, it's definitely worth considering. Fish's idea of trading him for Lowry plus Valanciunas makes sense to me. Lowry is just as good as Wall right now, if not a bit better. He is 26 years old so should remain good for another 5 years or so. If we also add Valanciunas, who would essentially be Okafor's young replacement, that's a tempting offer.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#875 » by Dat2U » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:03 pm

nate33 wrote:Wall was healthy in the offseason. He didn't hurt his knee until just before the preseason. It's not like he was sitting out all summer rehabbing after surgery. He was working on his game.

I"m a little leery of the constant excuses for Wall. Before his rookie year, the excuse was he didn't understand how hard he needed to work. Before his 2nd year, the excuse was the lockout. Before his third year, the excuse is an injury even though he had about 4 months after the season ended and before his injury.


And Wall was off of his feet for 3-4 months. Skills regress (i.e. getting rusty) if they aren't being used. Considering he's supposed to working on improving his skill level. That time off was crucial.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#876 » by nate33 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:17 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:Wall was healthy in the offseason. He didn't hurt his knee until just before the preseason. It's not like he was sitting out all summer rehabbing after surgery. He was working on his game.

I"m a little leery of the constant excuses for Wall. Before his rookie year, the excuse was he didn't understand how hard he needed to work. Before his 2nd year, the excuse was the lockout. Before his third year, the excuse is an injury even though he had about 4 months after the season ended and before his injury.


And Wall was off of his feet for 3-4 months. Skills regress (i.e. getting rusty) if they aren't being used. Considering he's supposed to working on improving his skill level. That time off was crucial.

Well, clearly we won't be trading him right this minute. Wall has the remainder of the season to show that his lack of improvement is merely rust from the downtime, or if it's truly a lack of fundamental improvement. But if Wall looks basically the same down the stretch as he does right now, I'd definitely be open to trading him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#877 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:43 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:Wall was healthy in the offseason. He didn't hurt his knee until just before the preseason. It's not like he was sitting out all summer rehabbing after surgery. He was working on his game.

I"m a little leery of the constant excuses for Wall. Before his rookie year, the excuse was he didn't understand how hard he needed to work. Before his 2nd year, the excuse was the lockout. Before his third year, the excuse is an injury even though he had about 4 months after the season ended and before his injury.


And Wall was off of his feet for 3-4 months. Skills regress (i.e. getting rusty) if they aren't being used. Considering he's supposed to working on improving his skill level. That time off was crucial.


Thank you, if you play sports you understand that not playing sports for 3-4 months will make you rusty. Trading Wall for Lowry and Val would be a huge mistake. Wall will get a lot better, he is only 22 years old. To be honest if he just cuts down on his turnovers then he is an all-star.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#878 » by Dat2U » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:48 pm

The first priority should be improving the rest of the roster that went 4-28 in Wall's absence but hey, what do I know?

Hmmm, Let's resign the 31 yr old big so he can retire a Wizard. Then lets give the minimum salaried FA a big pay day and of course Nene's presence is too important to risk losing, bad wheels in all, Continuity is important after all. Gotta keep that core that started 4-28 together.

Oh, but we should trade the 22 yr old PG because he's not a game changing star yet.

Yep, I guess that makes total sense.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#879 » by dandrews » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:05 am

edit: duplicate post.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XXII (2/6/13 - present) 

Post#880 » by dandrews » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:06 am

Dat2U wrote:Hmm, we were 4-28 without Wall... somehow were only 13-9 with Wall. So obviously the solution by many here is to trade Wall because he's obviously the problem.

Pure Genius!


You read my mind. Unless you are getting a proven bonafide superstar, trading Wall is insane.

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