The Amazingly Sucky John Wall Thread

[CobraCommander]

Well can we at least pause this thread until next game? Wall ran amok and proved why he is a legit max player- I look at a 23 year old wall and all I see is upside. To the people that said wall didn't improve this year- I say check the stats- you hear that everyone say wall listens to the older guys (that's a plus) and he works hard (that's a plus) and he is so damn athletic (more than a plus) and is humble (a plus) and he can dance!

[CobraCommander]

Kinda ridiculous to call Wall and Beal defensive liabilities. They make mistakes from time to time, but overall, Wall is definitely an above-average defender and Beal is at least average. How many points has Lance Stephenson scored this series?

I respect your opinion but wall and beal get beat of the dribble and beal really gets muscled a lot. Remember that Dunlevy went off on beal, Augustine off on beal and wall, and various other bad man up defensive assignments. They are young offensive beast- just need to get that defense established. It's like a puncher that eventually gets a jab- only then are you complete-

[dckingsfan]

I think it's fair to have concerns about Wall, and it's particularly fair to have concerns about Wall at a maximum salary. He's a good player with obvious potential to become great...if he improves. And, despite being an All-Star and getting copious accolades, in terms of his overall production and impact on the game, he really didn't improve much this season -- if at all. Maybe the true leap comes next year.

Seems a worthwhile place to mention this, but a Utah Jazz blogger has asserted that NBA players peak at 15,000-to-18,000 career minutes and then maintain something close to that level until approximately 30,000 minutes. Wall is 9574 regular season minutes. Even adding in his playoff minutes would leave him a little short of 10,000 minutes. I've pinged the guy who's making the assertion to get more details. If this is well-conducted research, that would put Wall's peak another couple seasons away, and would suggest there's plenty of time for improvement.

The age-based peak research suggests a peak "window" of 25-28 with an approximate plateau at that level to roughly 30-31. Wall's 23, and two more years would put him at 25. So, he's very likely to get better. Which is good -- if he can become as good as he's reputed to be, the Wizards will really have an outstanding player.

Or to say it another way... there might be a lot more good John to come

[Illmatic12]

Kinda ridiculous to call Wall and Beal defensive liabilities. They make mistakes from time to time, but overall, Wall is definitely an above-average defender and Beal is at least average. How many points has Lance Stephenson scored this series?

I respect your opinion but wall and beal get beat of the dribble and beal really gets muscled a lot. Remember that Dunlevy went off on beal, Augustine off on beal and wall, and various other bad man up defensive assignments. They are young offensive beast- just need to get that defense established. It's like a puncher that eventually gets a jab- only then are you complete-

Augustin went off? Beal/Wall shut him down in every game but one. Dunleavy went off on everyone that one game, he was raining threes with Ariza's hand in his face.

And who exactly has been beating Beal off the dribble, because Jimmy Butler and Lance Stephenson did jack against him.

Out of the 10 playoff games we've played, Beal has been above average defensively in at least ~7-8 of those games. Wall in ~6-7. They aren't great defenders but they're clearly not liabilities, and they fill their roles in what is a very effective defensive scheme.

[CobraCommander]

Kinda ridiculous to call Wall and Beal defensive liabilities. They make mistakes from time to time, but overall, Wall is definitely an above-average defender and Beal is at least average. How many points has Lance Stephenson scored this series?

I respect your opinion but wall and beal get beat of the dribble and beal really gets muscled a lot. Remember that Dunlevy went off on beal, Augustine off on beal and wall, and various other bad man up defensive assignments. They are young offensive beast- just need to get that defense established. It's like a puncher that eventually gets a jab- only then are you complete-

Augustin went off? Beal/Wall shut him down in every game but one. Dunleavy went off on everyone that one game, he was raining threes with Ariza's hand in his face.

And who exactly has been beating Beal off the dribble, because Jimmy Butler and Lance Stephenson did jack against him.

Out of the 10 playoff games we've played, Beal has been above average defensively in at least ~7 of those games. Wall in ~6. They aren't great defenders but they're clearly not liabilities, and they fill their roles in what is a very effective defensive scheme.

Like I said, I respect your opinions, it's just my observation that when a player gets hot, we put Ariza on them to slow them down. If you watch the games you will notice wall lags off his man when the ball is swung to the opposite side. He seems to be stalking the passing lanes - but good teams swing the ball back to his man which often forces a quick close out to stop a 3 which is going to be a good look at a 3 or a pump fake, step in mid range jumper- also wall is so athletic he should rarely get beat off dribble - but he does. These are things I expect wall to improve on in the years to come. He is an amazing defender off the ball (steals,on the break chase down blocks, help blocks, inbound play steals-remember the game tying one?) so maybe liability is a strong word - but I wouldn't call him a good or even average defender at his position. Just for context - lillard and kyrie are worse defenders than wall and beal- cause at least beal and wall try- but are they as good as Cp3? Not even close--

[Illmatic12]

I respect your opinion but wall and beal get beat of the dribble and beal really gets muscled a lot. Remember that Dunlevy went off on beal, Augustine off on beal and wall, and various other bad man up defensive assignments. They are young offensive beast- just need to get that defense established. It's like a puncher that eventually gets a jab- only then are you complete-

Augustin went off? Beal/Wall shut him down in every game but one. Dunleavy went off on everyone that one game, he was raining threes with Ariza's hand in his face.

And who exactly has been beating Beal off the dribble, because Jimmy Butler and Lance Stephenson did jack against him.

Out of the 10 playoff games we've played, Beal has been above average defensively in at least ~7 of those games. Wall in ~6. They aren't great defenders but they're clearly not liabilities, and they fill their roles in what is a very effective defensive scheme.

Like I said, I respect your opinions, it's just my observation that when a player gets hot, we put Ariza on them to slow them down. If you watch the games you will notice wall lags off his man when the ball is swung to the opposite side. He seems to be stalking the passing lanes - but good teams swing the ball back to his man which often forces a quick close out to stop a 3 which is going to be a good look at a 3 or a pump fake, step in mid range jumper- also wall is so athletic he should rarely get beat off dribble - but he does. These are things I expect wall to improve on in the years to come. He is an amazing defender off the ball (steals,on the break chase down blocks, help blocks, inbound play steals-remember the game tying one?) so maybe liability is a strong word - but I wouldn't call him a good or even average defender at his position. Just for context - lillard and kyrie are worse defenders than wall and beal- cause at least beal and wall try- but are they as good as Cp3? Not even close--

If you think Wall is a below average point guard defender, turn on some other NBA games. Just last night I was watching Tony Parker and Damian Lillard take turns running past each other like a turnstyle. EVERYBODY gets beat off the dribble, there are no Gary Payton's in the league anymore.

Wall isn't a great man defender yet, but his athleticism, length, steals, blocks, etc easily make him above average. He was average at times in the regular season because of effort, but these playoffs have showed that when Wall is locked in he's a plus on the defensive end, moreso than most point guards.

[CobraCommander]

Augustin went off? Beal/Wall shut him down in every game but one. Dunleavy went off on everyone that one game, he was raining threes with Ariza's hand in his face.

And who exactly has been beating Beal off the dribble, because Jimmy Butler and Lance Stephenson did jack against him.

Out of the 10 playoff games we've played, Beal has been above average defensively in at least ~7 of those games. Wall in ~6. They aren't great defenders but they're clearly not liabilities, and they fill their roles in what is a very effective defensive scheme.

Like I said, I respect your opinions, it's just my observation that when a player gets hot, we put Ariza on them to slow them down. If you watch the games you will notice wall lags off his man when the ball is swung to the opposite side. He seems to be stalking the passing lanes - but good teams swing the ball back to his man which often forces a quick close out to stop a 3 which is going to be a good look at a 3 or a pump fake, step in mid range jumper- also wall is so athletic he should rarely get beat off dribble - but he does. These are things I expect wall to improve on in the years to come. He is an amazing defender off the ball (steals,on the break chase down blocks, help blocks, inbound play steals-remember the game tying one?) so maybe liability is a strong word - but I wouldn't call him a good or even average defender at his position. Just for context - lillard and kyrie are worse defenders than wall and beal- cause at least beal and wall try- but are they as good as Cp3? Not even close--

If you think Wall is a below average point guard defender, turn on some other NBA games. Just last night I was watching Tony Parker and Damian Lillard take turns running past each other like a turnstyle. EVERYBODY gets beat off the dribble, there are no Gary Payton's in the league anymore.

Wall isn't a great man defender yet, but his athleticism, length, steals, blocks, etc easily make him above average. He was average at times in the regular season because of effort, but these playoffs have showed that when Wall is locked in he's a plus on the defensive end, moreso than most point guards.

Hmmm we might be saying the same thing. Lillard is the worse defender- lillard and kyrie are like hurry up and shoot so I can shoot next! Wall should aspire to be much better than that

[Higga]

Wall isn't bad on the ball, but sometimes he gets lost off the ball and gives up open 3s. But he's waaaaaaaay better defensively than Lillard/Irving/Parker etc. Only PG who is as good or better defensively is CP3 and even he got lit up last night.

And Beal has been pretty good defensively. He may not be shutdown but for a 20 year old, he is doing fine.

I don't think defense has been our issue this series save for the end of Game 4 where Paul George just went Beast Mode. He's a superstar though and sometimes you just gotta tip your cap to the other guy when he has a great game.

[nate33]

I respect your opinion but wall and beal get beat of the dribble and beal really gets muscled a lot. Remember that Dunlevy went off on beal, Augustine off on beal and wall, and various other bad man up defensive assignments. They are young offensive beast- just need to get that defense established. It's like a puncher that eventually gets a jab- only then are you complete-

Augustin went off? Beal/Wall shut him down in every game but one. Dunleavy went off on everyone that one game, he was raining threes with Ariza's hand in his face.

And who exactly has been beating Beal off the dribble, because Jimmy Butler and Lance Stephenson did jack against him.

Out of the 10 playoff games we've played, Beal has been above average defensively in at least ~7 of those games. Wall in ~6. They aren't great defenders but they're clearly not liabilities, and they fill their roles in what is a very effective defensive scheme.

Like I said, I respect your opinions, it's just my observation that when a player gets hot, we put Ariza on them to slow them down. If you watch the games you will notice wall lags off his man when the ball is swung to the opposite side. He seems to be stalking the passing lanes - but good teams swing the ball back to his man which often forces a quick close out to stop a 3 which is going to be a good look at a 3 or a pump fake, step in mid range jumper- also wall is so athletic he should rarely get beat off dribble - but he does. These are things I expect wall to improve on in the years to come. He is an amazing defender off the ball (steals,on the break chase down blocks, help blocks, inbound play steals-remember the game tying one?) so maybe liability is a strong word - but I wouldn't call him a good or even average defender at his position. Just for context - lillard and kyrie are worse defenders than wall and beal- cause at least beal and wall try- but are they as good as Cp3? Not even close--

I think I object to the term "liability". Liability means that the player is absolutely destroying the entire defensive scheme - that pretty much any half-decent NBA player would do a better job if they were plugged into that role. I think that's ridiculous. Could Wall and Beal be better defensively? Sure. Do they sometimes fail against certain matchups? Sure. But that's the case for most perimeter defenders. It's real hard to stop any quality perimeter scorer in this league, especially when you are also dealing with picks.

I think, overall, most NBA coaches would be pretty happy with a pair of guards who defend like Wall and Beal.

[Severn Hoos]

Like I said, I respect your opinions, it's just my observation that when a player gets hot, we put Ariza on them to slow them down. If you watch the games you will notice wall lags off his man when the ball is swung to the opposite side. He seems to be stalking the passing lanes - but good teams swing the ball back to his man which often forces a quick close out to stop a 3 which is going to be a good look at a 3 or a pump fake, step in mid range jumper- also wall is so athletic he should rarely get beat off dribble - but he does. These are things I expect wall to improve on in the years to come. He is an amazing defender off the ball (steals,on the break chase down blocks, help blocks, inbound play steals-remember the game tying one?) so maybe liability is a strong word - but I wouldn't call him a good or even average defender at his position. Just for context - lillard and kyrie are worse defenders than wall and beal- cause at least beal and wall try- but are they as good as Cp3? Not even close--

Man, this is why I hate Eddie Jordan as a coach - it seems like he's more concerned that his players get in the passing lanes instead of playing solid man defense. And Gil just lags off and watches his man shoot open 3s - all so that he can get a steal and a spectacular play from time to time. I mean, we are wasting one of the game's most efficient offensive players by the putrid defense we play on the other side of the court. And don't even get me started on Hughes. Talk about playing the passing lanes! Try bodying up a guy for once in your life. And he's supposed to be 1st team all-Defense? Seriously?




oh, sorry.... was having flashbacks to 2005... just realized we do have a backcourt that cares about defense. And a PF who can handle rotations and not be a total embarrassment on the defensieve (sic) end. Oh, and a rangy SF who can guard multiple positions on the perimeter.

So, what was the question again?

[Dat2U]

But good news is beal stepping up and likely would end up our franchise player. Trade wall get a first if top 10 draft Smart and use the other pick on Noell-shabazz-Len- etc.

Serious growing pain time for Wall one way or another.

Tough love from Randy and Beal and straight talk with a leaders professional touch from Webster. That is what he just got.

Wall just needs to except that he is what he is and maximize what he actually is. Should be interesting to hear how they describe the team. When is the last time anyone has hurt the organization describe this as Walls team ?

Hopefully he can find a way to play efficiently out there between now and the end of the year. That should be the teams main focus. If he can do that, then they can move him for value. I just don't see how it is going to work out for him here if this was his team and he was the #1, and now it is becoming Beal team.

It would be totally different if Wall was arriving on the team today and all that is here was already here.

Once he have recaptured his value, trade him for a top 10 first and get as many of the following as you can muster up: Victor O, Otto, CJ McCollum, Michael Carter-Williams, Trey Burke, Jeff Withey, and Doug McDermott, Michael Snaer as you can get.

Just not sure Wall would bring much more then a top 10 but if he can really crank up his efficiency, maybe he gets you a top 5.

Good times. Remember when Wall was supposed to be bust? We were willing to trade him for pennies on the dollar. That was just two short years ago.

[jmrosenth]

"Google's Michael Snaer".... good lord.

[tontoz]

Looking at the old posts i had previously commented about Wall's off hand being too much on top of the ball on his shot. It used to stick out to me like a sore thumb.

I had completely forgotten about it. Most likely he changed it because it used to be so obvious to me.

[queridiculo]

Good times. Remember when Wall was supposed to be bust? We were willing to trade him for pennies on the dollar. That was just two short years ago.

I resent that we!

[Higga]

But good news is beal stepping up and likely would end up our franchise player. Trade wall get a first if top 10 draft Smart and use the other pick on Noell-shabazz-Len- etc.

Serious growing pain time for Wall one way or another.

Tough love from Randy and Beal and straight talk with a leaders professional touch from Webster. That is what he just got.

Wall just needs to except that he is what he is and maximize what he actually is. Should be interesting to hear how they describe the team. When is the last time anyone has hurt the organization describe this as Walls team ?

Hopefully he can find a way to play efficiently out there between now and the end of the year. That should be the teams main focus. If he can do that, then they can move him for value. I just don't see how it is going to work out for him here if this was his team and he was the #1, and now it is becoming Beal team.

It would be totally different if Wall was arriving on the team today and all that is here was already here.

Once he have recaptured his value, trade him for a top 10 first and get as many of the following as you can muster up: Victor O, Otto, CJ McCollum, Michael Carter-Williams, Trey Burke, Jeff Withey, and Doug McDermott, Michael Snaer as you can get.

Just not sure Wall would bring much more then a top 10 but if he can really crank up his efficiency, maybe he gets you a top 5.

Good times. Remember when Wall was supposed to be bust? We were willing to trade him for pennies on the dollar. That was just two short years ago.

We? No...not all of us are/were that short sighted.

[Dat2U]

You mean hands11 doesn't speak for all of us?

[FAH1223]

[tontoz]

You mean hands11 doesn't speak for all of us?

In a way he does since he often takes both sides of an argument at different times.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Wall totally sucks and should be traded at the earliest possible moment because he didn't spend last summer replacing his bones with Adamantium. No foresight at all from him, and he's supposed to be a great point guard?

[JWizmentality]

John Wall is a p*ssy. He couldn't even get a real fracture.