Wizards Trade for Andre Miller

[miller31time]

I apologize for posting under the influence last night, but I don't take back calling monte and Nivek ugly. Who am I not to call a spade a spade?

Another spade.

[tontoz]

I just noticed that Denver also has Aaron Brooks in addition to Lawson/Nate. So they had 3 backups that were easily better than Maynor/Temple.

[jivelikenice]

They picked him up at the deadline for Jordan Hamilton

[Scabs304]

I've been advocating for this trade for a while and I'm very happy with what we gave up. Vesely who was all energy and athleticism and no skill, a player that we should of never signed and was taking up a roster spot and a 2nd rounder that will most likely not give us in 1.5 years that Andre will.

I find it very disheartening that there is talk about cutting Miller after this year. I don't see how that makes any sense unless we can sign a player to back up wall for less than 2.5 million. I don't like the WIZ front office's chances of being able to do this.

[jivelikenice]

I think Miller will become a great mentor to Wall. I expect playoffs will be when we get to see the best of Andre Miller.

This deal helps, but the costs and EG seemingly getting over bothers me.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

The Ernie getting over is a reasonable rub. You'd hope Ted evaluates the whole versus the individual deal. In terms of the individual deal though, what were the costs? We traded one of two second rd picks in 2015. We still have a two this year and both picks the following year. You have to pay something for a team to take on Maynor's second year....

[jivelikenice]

I've been advocating for this trade for a while and I'm very happy with what we gave up. Vesely who was all energy and athleticism and no skill, a player that we should of never signed and was taking up a roster spot and a 2nd rounder that will most likely not give us in 1.5 years that Andre will.

I find it very disheartening that there is talk about cutting Miller after this year. I don't see how that makes any sense unless we can sign a player to back up wall for less than 2.5 million. I don't like the WIZ front office's chances of being able to do this.

I haven't heard anything from the Wiz about not keeping Andre, just board speculation. I think he'll be back. Like you said, you'd have to find a replacement for 2.5 mil or less to make it worthwhile. Plus I like the idea of him anchoring the second unit (hopefully with Néne next year) and his experience playing with Lawson....

[hands11]

I've been advocating for this trade for a while and I'm very happy with what we gave up. Vesely who was all energy and athleticism and no skill, a player that we should of never signed and was taking up a roster spot and a 2nd rounder that will most likely not give us in 1.5 years that Andre will.

I find it very disheartening that there is talk about cutting Miller after this year. I don't see how that makes any sense unless we can sign a player to back up wall for less than 2.5 million. I don't like the WIZ front office's chances of being able to do this.

I haven't heard anything from the Wiz about not keeping Andre, just board speculation. I think he'll be back. Like you said, you'd have to find a replacement for 2.5 mil or less to make it worthwhile. Plus I like the idea of him anchoring the second unit (hopefully with Néne next year) and his experience playing with Lawson....

Yeah, that what also allows you to get a rookie or 1st or 2nd year PG as your 3rd PG on a swing and see what they can learn in a year.

Temple clearly will not be back next year.

[DCZards]

If Miller were younger, this would be a terrific addition -- he's one of the underrated players in this league. Might still be a good addition. Assuming he plays at the same level as earlier this season, he would certainly be worth his salary next year. And he would again be an asset at next year's trade deadline.

Except for giving up a pick, this would qualify as a good move.

It was a good move. It would have been a better move if the Zards hadn't had to give up a second round pick, but it was still a good move.

[tontoz]

He played reasonably well last season with regular minutes. I am definitely curious to see how he does.

[WallToWall]

So...looking at Miller's shotchart ( http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=1889 ) I dont think he has any SG in him. He will not be used to give Beal a rest. I knew what his game was like up to 3 years ago, but I cant tell now. Anyone who's watched him play in the last 2-3 years want to shed some light on what we can expect?

[GhostsOfGil]

Love this photo that BF had on their website. 15 years. Dang.

[dckingsfan]

I've been advocating for this trade for a while and I'm very happy with what we gave up. Vesely who was all energy and athleticism and no skill, a player that we should of never signed and was taking up a roster spot and a 2nd rounder that will most likely not give us in 1.5 years that Andre will.

I find it very disheartening that there is talk about cutting Miller after this year. I don't see how that makes any sense unless we can sign a player to back up wall for less than 2.5 million. I don't like the WIZ front office's chances of being able to do this.

I haven't heard anything from the Wiz about not keeping Andre, just board speculation. I think he'll be back. Like you said, you'd have to find a replacement for 2.5 mil or less to make it worthwhile. Plus I like the idea of him anchoring the second unit (hopefully with Néne next year) and his experience playing with Lawson....

Yeah, that what also allows you to get a rookie or 1st or 2nd year PG as your 3rd PG on a swing and see what they can learn in a year.

Temple clearly will not be back next year.

Unless EG and Witt are back

[dobrojim]

Have you seen Nivek?
He's very ugly.

Also monte is ugly too.

I've met them both and they're betting looking than Calvin Booth or
whoever that is as your avi.

<BG>

[dobrojim]

That evil third eye in her console is giving me the creeps

typical guy, ignores a pretty face in favor of excitement.

[dobrojim]

Who wins this three - on - three?

Andre Miller, Al Harrington, Nene Hilario

Vs.

Randy Foye, Jan Vesely, and Javale McGee

the answer to that question is not particularly important.

Jim, is it something I have said or done?

Mr Spock?

You are telling me that you are not seeing the humor but your droll tone concerns me. I think I must have offended you.

PM me if this is true.

No worries my friend. I mistook your post as serious. We're good.
Apologies for whatever angst...

[dobrojim]

this is such a classic Ernie move.....making a mad dash for mediocrity by trading big and young for old and small.
Braking all the cardinal rules. Granted Miller is an upgrade at the 2nd unit pg spot but without Veseley we're pretty thin at the 4/5 and not very big. EG screwed up royally with the Veseley pick but he was just starting to be semi productive. Watch Veseley blossom now ...reminds me of Rod Strickland for Rasheed Wallace. If theres an injury to Gortat or Nene who do we have on the bench now??? Booker at 6'7" or Seraphin at 6'9"?

EG is the king of the unimpressive trade and the king of bad draft picks. Fire his ass already.

to all the folks who are talking about breaking the Webber/Richmond rule, young/old/big/small,
Jan Vesely was/is NOT Chris Webber.

Agreed.

But I also know Vesely started with Seraphin and the Wizsrds won 8 of ten. The Wizards have changed philosophy. They acquired veterans making 13 and 14 million in Nene and Okafor. Booker came off injured time and supplanted guys who did start and win years ago. Nothing supported a wretched FT shooter, who at 23 years old had his confidence shattered. Vesely was asked to change position, too.

He's no Webber. But I saw his FIBA stats in games where he outplayed Marc Gasol and Marcin Gortat.

I saw the Dirk shot that Vesely made in Vegas. He was a very active rebounder in Vegas and FIBA. Vesely was much better than Otto. Jan was 23 in summer league. Young enough, as a big man, to markedly improve.

Vesely also had a stretch of productivity this season. He had 3 blocks and 3 steals in very limited minutes.

Jim, I made the old for young comments. I remember making many comments that were not well received.

All I have to say is that the Wizards are extremely wrong about Vesely.

For a couple years I wanted to believe that (the Wizards are wrong about Ves).
He's had chances. I think he has some intuitive understanding of how to play.
But ultimately, he has great difficulty with the most basic fundamental aspects
of the game. I wanted him to succeed. I wish EG had been more prescient about
his prospects. I just don't see it happening at this point. Until he can shoot ~50% FTs
and score 2-4x his foul rate, I don't see how he ever amounts to anything worthwhile
in the NBA. He's still young. Maybe someday it'll come together for him. I think his
problems are mostly in his own head ie of his own making. Perhaps those are
actually the hardest issues to fix.The wizards were right to be done waiting for that day.

Particularly when they had such a glaring need for a PG and one the caliber
of Miller was available.

So Fish, they got back a trade exception? Sounds like a somewhat modest asset.
I can't say that I know exactly what that entitles them to do.

[stevemcqueen1]

The FO drafted Vesely without a real plan for him. Fired his coach almost immediately. Changed his position. Asked him to transform his body. Immediately went out and acquired older veterans that pushed his development down the priorities list. Never gave him any burn really. Even if he didn't have serious holes in his game, he wouldn't have worked out.

One of the hardest things to do is keep a core that's too young together. It always gets broken up and the team only keeps a couple of its most essential draft picks. It happened to the Baby Bulls back in the early 2000's. Guys like Tyson Chandler busted there but ended up being very good players down the road for different teams. It's happening to Sacramento and us now.

Teams that are too young lose and don't develop properly. You can't have everyone learning on the job at the same time or else no one will actually be able to do their job. You won't be able to play defense or shoot or run a good offense. That was us our first two seasons. So they get broken up or else the FO gets fired and a new FO comes in and tears down what the old one did.

That's also why teams that "tank" to stockpile draft picks often stay in the lottery shuffling their talent.

[Dat2U]

The FO drafted Vesely without a real plan for him. Fired his coach almost immediately. Changed his position. Asked him to transform his body. Immediately went out and acquired older veterans that pushed his development down the priorities list. Never gave him any burn really. Even if he didn't have serious holes in his game, he wouldn't have worked out.

One of the hardest things to do is keep a core that's too young together. It always gets broken up and the team only keeps a couple of its most essential draft picks. It happened to the Baby Bulls back in the early 2000's. Guys like Tyson Chandler busted there but ended up being very good players down the road for different teams. It's happening to Sacramento and us now.

Teams that are too young lose and don't develop properly. You can't have everyone learning on the job at the same time or else no one will actually be able to do their job. You won't be able to play defense or shoot or run a good offense. That was us our first two seasons. So they get broken up or else the FO gets fired and a new FO comes in and tears down what the old one did.

That's also why teams that "tank" to stockpile draft picks often stay in the lottery shuffling their talent.

You almost nail on the head in the first paragraph. THIS front office. A good front office never would have drafted someone so raw who was already a seasoned vet overseas. Ves was a "man" when he came over. He was supposed to be polished and game ready with years of veteran experience against better than NCAA competition. But his skillset was raw as sushi and there wasn't legitimate NBA skill he brought to the table. No developing that. Wiz could have force fed minutes at his favorite position, he'd still of stunk.

THIS front office is doing what your describing to Otto Porter, someone that I believe actually has some NBA ability and skill. I have no idea if he'll develop, but THIS front office certainly isn't doing him any favors.

THIS front office has had experience of having too many immature personalities on the team and making the mistake of believing older veterans was a better alternative instead of just focusing on drafting better and selecting players who actually displayed work ethic & maturity.

THIS front office is certainly comparable to Sacramento in terms of ineptness and an inability to properly evaluate and manage talent.

I think overall, your post falls into more of the generic analysis I'd expect to see from Wizards management. The whole "can't have too much young talent" theory is quite debatable. I'd rather focus on the talent and maturity of each individual player and opposed to making sweeping observations based on a player's age or experience in the league.

[Dat2U]

So...looking at Miller's shotchart ( http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=1889 ) I dont think he has any SG in him. He will not be used to give Beal a rest. I knew what his game was like up to 3 years ago, but I cant tell now. Anyone who's watched him play in the last 2-3 years want to shed some light on what we can expect?

I don't think he's ever had any SG in him. He's still crafty at getting into the lane. Still can run an offense and get guys shots but I can't see him pairing with Wall, even in limited minutes. Teams would just pack the paint and dare us to shoot. At least unlike Wall, Miller won't shoot long 2s too often.

Defensively it's going to be ugly but at least the offense should flow better on the 2nd unit.

[daSwami]

The other frustrating thing about Vesely is apart from being a completely wasted 6th pick, EG also wasted a high 2nd round pick in Tomas Satoransky in hopes they'd be bffs.

That, and Ves had about the least "NBA-ready" physique I've ever seen. Has EG ever explained his rationale for the pick? (assuming he had one). Or better, has Ted explained how he measures employee performance?