The Problem that is Nene

[Tiny Too]

If there is a similar topic, Mods, I apologize...merge as appropriate.

As a Bullets fan since 1967-68 (Monroe's rookie year), I read all the posts here but rarely add my own opinion. I can't keep silent anymore about Nene. It seems he gets a major free pass by so many posters on real GM, and I just can't understand it.

The reality is largely in his current numbers: And this year's stats are not so different from his career averages.
2014-15: Minutes 29, Pts 11.7, Rebs 5.0, Assts 2.7, TOs 2.2, FG% 47, FT% 54, Blocks .54, Steals 1.44, PER 12.8
Last night: Minutes 34, Pts 9, Rebs 5, Assts 2, TOs 3, FG % 33, FT% 100, Bl 0, St 0

This guy, ladies and gents, is supposed to be a POWER forward. On defense, where is the power?? He can't rebound. He blocks few shots. Perhaps his defense is limited to sealing off the paint and boxing out his man?? His PnR defense in the open is OK but nothing special. He is not an intimidator , ala Karl Malone. He is soft and passive. He whines all the time. AND FOR THIS PRODUCTION, WE ARE GETTING 29 MINUTES AND PAYING $13 MILLION/YEAR!!!

On offense, he struggles to finish at the rim in traffic. He has little foot speed, little lift anymore, and no burst of quick athleticism. Often, he looks to dish off in traffic (because he knows he can't finish??). Sometimes he scores, sometimes there is a good pass, sometimes there is a turnover, sometimes his shot is blocked. When he gets fouled , his FT % is only 54%. His PER is a pedestrian 12.8!!! AND FOR THIS PRODUCTION, WE ARE PAYING $13 MILLION!!

Why hasn't someone on these boards called him out on all of this????

Perhaps it is the intangibles he brings, you might say?? I have been watching pro basketball for over 45 years, and frankly, I don't see the intangibles. They are excuses to accept his mediocrity. High B-ball IQ...not really. Makes other players better...perhaps a little. Intimidation...none. Clutch at the end of close games...nothing special (You DO NOT want him on the foul line.) Does he exude passion to inspire his teammates...I don't see it. Great teammate in the locker room...nothing special that I have heard.

On top of all of this, he is often injured. We are lucky to get 60-65 games out of him in the regular season.

So, we are paying this guy $13 Million to average 30 minutes, 60 or so games, with this kind of middling production on both ends of the court???? I can accept he is not an All-Star, but right now, he isn't even as productive as Humphries.

Thoughts, comments, and critique are welcomed.

[pcbothwel]

Ummm...Yeah. We know. The issue is that trading Nene will most likely cause one of two problems:
1) We get a better contract, but have to take on an inferior player/bad locker room presence, which we cant afford to do as we are competing to get to ECF.
2) We get a better player, but sacrifice 2016 cap space and ruin a chance at Durant or any other Star FA anytime soon as after that we'll have 50M+ committed to Wall, Beal, Gortat, and Porter.

It's frustrating, but manageable.

[nate33]

Every year he has been with the Wizards, he has posted a positive on/off differential and the team has rebounded better with him on the floor than off. You can dismiss them as "intangibles" if you want, but for whatever reason, he makes a positive difference when on the floor.

I'll agree that he has looked pretty bad this season but I'm not going to panic about it just yet. Sometimes it takes vets a while to play themselves into top shape.

That said, It's possible that he is approaching a steeper curve of age-related decline. While this would be disappointing, it's not entirely unexpected. I was hoping we'd get one more good year out of him before he declined in the 2015/16 season. We shall see.

[Ruzious]

Right, we've never gone over this before.

Every year here, he's had one of the top +/-'s on the team. This season, it's +16.1 per 100 possessions.

As for rebounding, yes, he doesn't get a lot of rebounds, but the team always rebounds well at the defensive end when he's in the game. That's kind of important. It's the difference between Nene and Seraphin. This season, they're -3.3% on offensive rebounds when he's in, but they're +6.3% on defensive boards.

As for defense, he's one of the top defensive PF's in the NBA. He has great footwork. Last night, did you see when he got isolated against Ellis near the end? Ellis had no trouble getting around our guards, but he couldn't get around Nene.

Is he worth 13 mil this season? No, he's not what he used to be. That's life. Deal with it instead of whining about it.

[Nivek]

As Ruz points out, the plus/minus data (raw and adjusted) says the team is better when Nenê is on the floor. His individual production is pretty average overall, but his defense is good. Better this year than last, which may have something to do with better health.

It's way early to use the plus/minus, on/off stuff for anything more than an indicator. Given the team's rotation thus far, I think what on/off is saying is that the Wizards starting lineup is WAY better than their bench lineup. Nenê, for example, has 160 minutes with the other 4 starters. That's 61% of his total minutes with the same group of guys. His next most frequent lineup: 12:39, and it merely replaces Temple with Butler.

He's not the player he used to be, but he's still useful and he can still box out and defend.

And, I STILL think the Wiz would be better off moving him to the bench and playing him 24-28 minutes a night split between PF and C. I'd MUCH rather have Nenê as the backup C than Seraphin. (In fairness, I'd rather they use Andre Miller as the backup C than Seraphin.)

[TGW]

100% right Nivek.

They should use Nene as the backup center, and rotate Humphries/Gooden/Blair at power forward. I think the team would be much better off if Seraphin is kept off the floor.

[Nivek]

100% right Nivek.

They should use Nene as the backup center, and rotate Humphries/Gooden/Blair at power forward. I think the team would be much better off if Seraphin is kept off the floor.

I'd rather the PF/C mix be Gortat, Humphries, Nenê and Pierce. Playing Pierce some at PF opens more time for Porter at SF, and lets Pierce get back to the small-ball look similar to how he was very effective last season. I'd have Gooden and Blair in more of a spot duty role.

[nate33]

I'd rather the PF/C mix be Gortat, Humphries, Nenê and Pierce. Playing Pierce some at PF opens more time for Porter at SF, and lets Pierce get back to the small-ball look similar to how he was very effective last season. I'd have Gooden and Blair in more of a spot duty role.

I'd definitely do this after Webster gets back. For now, I can understand the reluctance to use Pierce at PF very much because Wittman is trying to limit Pierce's total minutes, and he doesn't yet trust Porter to log a heavy minute load. I can live with Gooden or Blair getting the non-Humphries, non-Nene minutes at PF.

I also have an irrationally forgiving attitude about Seraphin. I feel like he has played okay at PF but I'm probably just deluding myself.

[tontoz]

We all knew there was a good chance Nene's game would decline significantly after we traded for him. The good news is the the cap is about to go way up. Plus he comes off the books at the same time Durant becomes available. In the end his contract isn't as damaging as it could have been.

[hands11]

Every year he has been with the Wizards, he has posted a positive on/off differential and the team has rebounded better with him on the floor than off. You can dismiss them as "intangibles" if you want, but for whatever reason, he makes a positive difference when on the floor.

I'll agree that he has looked pretty bad this season but I'm not going to panic about it just yet. Sometimes it takes vets a while to play themselves into top shape.

That said, It's possible that he is approaching a steeper curve of age-related decline. While this would be disappointing, it's not entirely unexpected. I was hoping we'd get one more good year out of him before he declined in the 2015/16 season. We shall see.

While he cant jump, he has a real nice first step. And if he gets a clean enough look, he can still power dunk.

Nene's game is from the outside in. He needs that open space. I suspect we are about the get some more of it when the 3 pointers return. Beal will help a lot. Rasual has been great recently. Otto hitting from outside like last night helps as well.

They can sit back and we can get open 3s, or they can come out and open the floor for Nene, Gortat and Hump.

And while Nene does clear space, he still need an active all energy rebounder.

But to play to Nene strength, you need 3 pt shooters and cutters because Nene is a very good passer. So with Beal back and Otto improving, I think Nene will look better.

[nuposse04]

a backup unit of

Miller
Webster
Butler
Pierce
Nene


they'd be wretched defensively probably but would probably score readily. I'd give it a try when we can.

[deneem4]

nene stats looks so good because he primarily plays with our starters...period

[dckingsfan]

nene stats looks so good because he primarily plays with our starters...period

As I recall - he had the same +/- when he was coming off the bench last year. But I haven't done the look-up to confirm.

[hands11]

a backup unit of

Miller
Webster
Butler
Pierce
Nene


they'd be wretched defensively probably but would probably score readily. I'd give it a try when we can.

When do you think that will happen ?

[nuposse04]

a backup unit of

Miller
Webster
Butler
Pierce
Nene


they'd be wretched defensively probably but would probably score readily. I'd give it a try when we can.

When do you think that will happen ?

Only chance it would occur is in the 2nd of the season, when it became absolutely obvious to Randy this is an experiment maybe worth entertaining. 3 superior passers in that lineup and 2 sharp shooters. I think offensively, it works well. Lots of good off the ball movement, but again, Randy isn't creative enough to try it, plus he only uses small ball I think when he is desperate for 3 pt shooting.

Truthfully the only way it does occur is if Pierce and Nene are simultaneously working their way back from injury, which none of us want to happen :/

[Illmatic12]

Nene's offense is up and down and some nights he can't make a damn layup to save his life. But he's consistently been our best defensive player, and there are going to be certain matchups where we'll really need him this season (ie Bulls series last season)

[nate33]

a backup unit of

Miller
Webster
Butler
Pierce
Nene


they'd be wretched defensively probably but would probably score readily. I'd give it a try when we can.

Replace Butler with Gooden or Blair and I like it much better. Someone needs to rebound and defend.

I don't really want Pierce as a stretch four with the second unit. The rest of players on the court don't rebound well enough to compensate for his lack of size. Pierce should play the 3 with the second unit, and then get spot minutes at the 4 with the starting unit during crunch time.

[Nivek]

I'd rather the PF/C mix be Gortat, Humphries, Nenê and Pierce. Playing Pierce some at PF opens more time for Porter at SF, and lets Pierce get back to the small-ball look similar to how he was very effective last season. I'd have Gooden and Blair in more of a spot duty role.

I'd definitely do this after Webster gets back. For now, I can understand the reluctance to use Pierce at PF very much because Wittman is trying to limit Pierce's total minutes, and he doesn't yet trust Porter to log a heavy minute load. I can live with Gooden or Blair getting the non-Humphries, non-Nene minutes at PF.

I also have an irrationally forgiving attitude about Seraphin. I feel like he has played okay at PF but I'm probably just deluding myself.

Agree with pretty much everything. Including the part about deluding yourself on Seraphin at PF.

[hands11]

Yeah, I was honestly a little surprised there was no Gooden or Blair that game. I didnt fully expect it but I thought there was a good chance of it. That game was to big for Kevin in the 2nd half. Randy should have known that.

They did play this down the stretch.

Wall
Otto
Paul
Hump
Nene


Sadly one of JJs open shot from the right was because Otto didnt rotate over and Paul left JJs side to cover Parson as he rolled past the basket.

That was before they closed out with

Wall
Beal
Paul
Nene
Gortat

As for Nene defense. Hope everyone remember how he covered JJ so well on the perimeter that JJ had to call a time out because Nene had his 20 feet from the basketball with like 4 seconds left. Monta missed but Tyson Fing Chandler tapped it out. But then Beal took the charge.

[JWizmentality]

Never got the Nene hate on this board. We are just better with him on the floor and no you aren't going to get monster stats from him. We've all known that. I love what he brings...even with the mild homicidal issues.