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NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#921 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:46 pm

tontoz wrote:Mozgov has been the Cavs 2nd best player. Benching him, especially given how thin they are, was a pretty bad move IMO.

Going small against the Warriors is not the answer. You aren't going to beat them at their own game.


I disagree. Mozgov was dominant in Game 4 at home, but I'm not sure you an count on him to duplicate that on the road. Also, Cleveland still got blown out in spite of Mozgov's career game. GS let him get his, then got it right back on the other end and then some. I think the Cavs had to respond by going small.

Thought they should have given Marion a look, though. I'd actually start Thompson/Marion up front in Game 6, see if he can at least somewhat resemble The Matrix one last time before he retires. Maybe he's got one last great fight left in him, Rocky Balboa style. LOL

Either way, unless Cleveland somehow catches lightning in a bottle from an unexpected place, this will be over on Tuesday.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#922 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:48 pm

queridiculo wrote:Van Gundy is absolutely terrible. The amount of times he gets calls wrong despite having the benefit of the replay is astounding.

Yeah, in years past, he was good, but it seems like he's been mailing it in for the last year or so. He's never in doubt but often wrong.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#923 » by FAH1223 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:51 pm

LeBron is getting all the calls in Game 6.

This is going to Game 7. The NBA is gonna pull out the stops to get this to Friday night.

Warriors will win it all though, it is their title to lose.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#924 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:55 pm

tontoz wrote:Curry was bad in game 2. However in the other 4 games he is averaging 28 ppg shooting 50% from the field and from 3 even though he is the focus of the Cavs D.

Yeah, I'd be perfectly fine with Curry winning it. Some in the media are acting like it would be a travesty if Lebron doesn't win. But Curry is clearly the best player on GS, and he made shots that nobody else can make. And because Curry hasn't disappeared, we barely notice that Thompson has.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#925 » by tontoz » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:22 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
tontoz wrote:Mozgov has been the Cavs 2nd best player. Benching him, especially given how thin they are, was a pretty bad move IMO.

Going small against the Warriors is not the answer. You aren't going to beat them at their own game.


I disagree. Mozgov was dominant in Game 4 at home, but I'm not sure you an count on him to duplicate that on the road. Also, Cleveland still got blown out in spite of Mozgov's career game. GS let him get his, then got it right back on the other end and then some. I think the Cavs had to respond by going small.

Thought they should have given Marion a look, though. I'd actually start Thompson/Marion up front in Game 6, see if he can at least somewhat resemble The Matrix one last time before he retires. Maybe he's got one last great fight left in him, Rocky Balboa style. LOL

Either way, unless Cleveland somehow catches lightning in a bottle from an unexpected place, this will be over on Tuesday.



The Cavs got blown out in game 4 because the players were worn out due to their short rotations. They were in the game until the 4th. Lebron was crap, going 7-22. They had an extra day of rest going into last night's game and it showed.

Mozgov has been, by a wide margin, their second best player in the series. He has been a beast at both ends.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#926 » by nate33 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:30 pm

tontoz wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
tontoz wrote:Mozgov has been the Cavs 2nd best player. Benching him, especially given how thin they are, was a pretty bad move IMO.

Going small against the Warriors is not the answer. You aren't going to beat them at their own game.


I disagree. Mozgov was dominant in Game 4 at home, but I'm not sure you an count on him to duplicate that on the road. Also, Cleveland still got blown out in spite of Mozgov's career game. GS let him get his, then got it right back on the other end and then some. I think the Cavs had to respond by going small.

Thought they should have given Marion a look, though. I'd actually start Thompson/Marion up front in Game 6, see if he can at least somewhat resemble The Matrix one last time before he retires. Maybe he's got one last great fight left in him, Rocky Balboa style. LOL

Either way, unless Cleveland somehow catches lightning in a bottle from an unexpected place, this will be over on Tuesday.



The Cavs got blown out in game 4 because the players were worn out due to their short rotations. They were in the game until the 4th. Lebron was crap, going 7-22. They had an extra day of rest going into last night's game and it showed.

Mozgov has been, by a wide margin, their second best player in the series. He has been a beast at both ends.

I've been more impressed with Thompson than Mosgov. Don't get me wrong, I like Mosgov a lot, but the reason his minutes were cut is because he doesn't have the ability to guard the pick-and-roll and string out the ball-handler. Once Golden State went small, Mosgov was forced to guard Iggy. That resulted in wide open 3's for Iggy, or worse, Iggy set a pick for Curry, forcing Mosgov to switch and cover Curry.

Thompson has been more valuable than Mosgov IMO because of his defensive versatility. It doesn't matter what lineup Golden State plays, Thompson can do his job defensively.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#927 » by tontoz » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:21 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
I disagree. Mozgov was dominant in Game 4 at home, but I'm not sure you an count on him to duplicate that on the road. Also, Cleveland still got blown out in spite of Mozgov's career game. GS let him get his, then got it right back on the other end and then some. I think the Cavs had to respond by going small.

Thought they should have given Marion a look, though. I'd actually start Thompson/Marion up front in Game 6, see if he can at least somewhat resemble The Matrix one last time before he retires. Maybe he's got one last great fight left in him, Rocky Balboa style. LOL

Either way, unless Cleveland somehow catches lightning in a bottle from an unexpected place, this will be over on Tuesday.



The Cavs got blown out in game 4 because the players were worn out due to their short rotations. They were in the game until the 4th. Lebron was crap, going 7-22. They had an extra day of rest going into last night's game and it showed.

Mozgov has been, by a wide margin, their second best player in the series. He has been a beast at both ends.

I've been more impressed with Thompson than Mosgov. Don't get me wrong, I like Mosgov a lot, but the reason his minutes were cut is because he doesn't have the ability to guard the pick-and-roll and string out the ball-handler. Once Golden State went small, Mosgov was forced to guard Iggy. That resulted in wide open 3's for Iggy, or worse, Iggy set a pick for Curry, forcing Mosgov to switch and cover Curry.

Thompson has been more valuable than Mosgov IMO because of his defensive versatility. It doesn't matter what lineup Golden State plays, Thompson can do his job defensively.




Iggy is not a guy who can be relied on for consistent offense. He has never been comfortable in the go to scorer role. Just last night he went 2-11 from the foul line. If i am the Cavs i take my chances with Iggy beating me with his shooting.

Thompson is strong on the boards but isn't a post up threat against a smaller player. Mozgov was scoring routinely on Green.

Curry had his breakout game with Mozgov out. GS was having a much easier time getting to the rim last night. Thompson cant protect the rim like Mozgov. The Cavs were -22 with him on the floor last night.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#928 » by nate33 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:04 pm

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:I've been more impressed with Thompson than Mosgov. Don't get me wrong, I like Mosgov a lot, but the reason his minutes were cut is because he doesn't have the ability to guard the pick-and-roll and string out the ball-handler. Once Golden State went small, Mosgov was forced to guard Iggy. That resulted in wide open 3's for Iggy, or worse, Iggy set a pick for Curry, forcing Mosgov to switch and cover Curry.

Thompson has been more valuable than Mosgov IMO because of his defensive versatility. It doesn't matter what lineup Golden State plays, Thompson can do his job defensively.




Iggy is not a guy who can be relied on for consistent offense. He has never been comfortable in the go to scorer role. Just last night he went 2-11 from the foul line. If i am the Cavs i take my chances with Iggy beating me with his shooting.

Thompson is strong on the boards but isn't a post up threat against a smaller player. Mozgov was scoring routinely on Green.

Curry had his breakout game with Mozgov out. GS was having a much easier time getting to the rim last night. Thompson cant protect the rim like Mozgov. The Cavs were -22 with him on the floor last night.

C'mon now. Curry's breakout had nothing to do with either Mozgov or Thompson. When Curry is making step-back 3's in people's grill like he did to Delledova, and when he's dropping bombs from 30 feet, he is not influenced by which big man was in the game. (And let's not forget that Curry scored 17 second-half points in Game 4.)

I agree that putting Mosgov on Iggy was the correct strategy when GSW went small, but GSW countered by running the Curry pick-and-roll with Iggy as the pick setter. Mosgov couldn't just camp out in the lane because he had to step up and guard Curry. That's why Curry scored 17 points in the 2nd half of game 4. Blatt understood this and that's why he was forced to limit Mosgov's minutes in Game 5. It worked. Despite playing on the road, the Cavs kept the game much more competitive and were down by just 1 with less than 5:00 to go.

I am in no way trying to come across as a Mosgov hater. I think Mosgov has been fabulous this whole series. I'm just saying there is a strategic reason why Blatt had to limit his minutes. As good as Mosgov has been, he still is a liability defending the perimeter. Thompson isn't.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#929 » by tontoz » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:11 pm

No big man can guard Curry. That is exactly the point. TT can't guard him. Steph has hit a bunch of step backs in his grill.

In game 4 the Cavs were gased and admitted as much. They weren't going to win that game regardless of who they played. But their bigs have a huge advantage over the GS bigs. Benching Mozgov eliminates that advantage.

And let's keep in mind TT isn't replacing Mosgov's minutes, Mike Miller and James Jones are.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#930 » by gtn130 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:01 am

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:

The Cavs got blown out in game 4 because the players were worn out due to their short rotations. They were in the game until the 4th. Lebron was crap, going 7-22. They had an extra day of rest going into last night's game and it showed.

Mozgov has been, by a wide margin, their second best player in the series. He has been a beast at both ends.

I've been more impressed with Thompson than Mosgov. Don't get me wrong, I like Mosgov a lot, but the reason his minutes were cut is because he doesn't have the ability to guard the pick-and-roll and string out the ball-handler. Once Golden State went small, Mosgov was forced to guard Iggy. That resulted in wide open 3's for Iggy, or worse, Iggy set a pick for Curry, forcing Mosgov to switch and cover Curry.

Thompson has been more valuable than Mosgov IMO because of his defensive versatility. It doesn't matter what lineup Golden State plays, Thompson can do his job defensively.




Iggy is not a guy who can be relied on for consistent offense. He has never been comfortable in the go to scorer role. Just last night he went 2-11 from the foul line. If i am the Cavs i take my chances with Iggy beating me with his shooting.

Thompson is strong on the boards but isn't a post up threat against a smaller player. Mozgov was scoring routinely on Green.

Curry had his breakout game with Mozgov out. GS was having a much easier time getting to the rim last night. Thompson cant protect the rim like Mozgov. The Cavs were -22 with him on the floor last night.


Iggy has been their best player for stretches of this series. The Cavs have done precisely what you're saying they should do and were burned by it. And he's not being put in a go-to scorer role. He's been put into an 'exploit a ridiculously favorable matchup' role.

GSW small lineup is too much for Cleveland even when conceding the significant offensive rebounding advantage, and it's the reason they're going to win the series (and their huge depth advantage obv).
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#931 » by tontoz » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:56 am

gtn130 wrote:
Iggy has been their best player for stretches of this series. The Cavs have done precisely what you're saying they should do and were burned by it. And he's not being put in a go-to scorer role. He's been put into an 'exploit a ridiculously favorable matchup' role.

GSW small lineup is too much for Cleveland even when conceding the significant offensive rebounding advantage, and it's the reason they're going to win the series (and their huge depth advantage obv).



IN game 4 the Cavs shot 33% and gave GS an abundance of early offense opportunities. They were gassed due to their short rotations. That is why they got burned, not because they put Mozgov (28/10) on Iggy.

Mozgov scored 34% of their points. Their guards were a combined 7-35. James was 7-22.

Frankly i am surprised the Cavs have made it to game 6. I thought the series would be over by now.
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NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#932 » by Induveca » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:57 pm

tontoz wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Iggy has been their best player for stretches of this series. The Cavs have done precisely what you're saying they should do and were burned by it. And he's not being put in a go-to scorer role. He's been put into an 'exploit a ridiculously favorable matchup' role.

GSW small lineup is too much for Cleveland even when conceding the significant offensive rebounding advantage, and it's the reason they're going to win the series (and their huge depth advantage obv).



IN game 4 the Cavs shot 33% and gave GS an abundance of early offense opportunities. They were gassed due to their short rotations. That is why they got burned, not because they put Mozgov (28/10) on Iggy.

Mozgov scored 34% of their points. Their guards were a combined 7-35. James was 7-22.

Frankly i am surprised the Cavs have made it to game 6. I thought the series would be over by now.


Not surprised at all, James is that good. The inability for the rest of the team to make an outside shot is killing them at this point, as are obvious fatigue issues with the 7 man rotation. First few games that wasn't the case.

Golden State is a great team, but it's pretty obvious if Love/Irving were also playing Cleveland had a great chance of a sweep. James has literally played 1 on 5 many games and there is no answer. The constant bricks my Shumpert/Smith/Dellavadova would have been makes by Love/Irving.....and they could have had a 9-10 man rotation.

I've never seen a more impressive performance by an individual player, and I can't stand the guy as a person. He is giving 110% to win a ring for a starting lineup of career long bench players, and they are very close. It's crazy. If they get to game 7, James deserves MVP win or lose.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#933 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:08 pm

Induveca wrote:Not surprised at all, James is that good. The inability for the rest of the team to make an outside shot is killing them at this point, as are obvious fatigue issues with the 7 man rotation. First few games that wasn't the case.

Golden State is a great team, but it's pretty obvious if Love/Irving were also playing Cleveland had a great chance of a sweep. James has literally played 1 on 5 many games and there is no answer. The constant bricks my Shumpert/Smith/Dellavadova would have been makes by Love/Irving.....and they could have had a 9-10 man rotation.

I've never seen a more impressive performance by an individual player, and I can't stand the guy as a person. He is giving 110% to win a ring for a starting lineup of career long bench players, and they are very close. It's crazy. If they get to game 7, James deserves MVP win or lose.

I think you are overlooking the fact that Dellavadova and Thompson are MUCH better defenders than Irving and Love. Yeah, the offense would go smoother with Irving and Love, but they would only be taking shots from Lebron, who is shooting at an acceptable efficiency once you factor free throws and low turnovers. But at the other end, Curry and Green would be getting much better looks.

Basically, other than depth/fatigue issues, I'm not convinced that the loss of Irving and Love had significantly hurt the overall performance of the Cavaliers. It's hurt some, but not enough to turn this thing into a sweep for Cleveland.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#934 » by tontoz » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:41 pm

Induveca wrote:
tontoz wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Iggy has been their best player for stretches of this series. The Cavs have done precisely what you're saying they should do and were burned by it. And he's not being put in a go-to scorer role. He's been put into an 'exploit a ridiculously favorable matchup' role.

GSW small lineup is too much for Cleveland even when conceding the significant offensive rebounding advantage, and it's the reason they're going to win the series (and their huge depth advantage obv).



IN game 4 the Cavs shot 33% and gave GS an abundance of early offense opportunities. They were gassed due to their short rotations. That is why they got burned, not because they put Mozgov (28/10) on Iggy.

Mozgov scored 34% of their points. Their guards were a combined 7-35. James was 7-22.

Frankly i am surprised the Cavs have made it to game 6. I thought the series would be over by now.


Not surprised at all, James is that good. The inability for the rest of the team to make an outside shot is killing them at this point, as are obvious fatigue issues with the 7 man rotation. First few games that wasn't the case.

Golden State is a great team, but it's pretty obvious if Love/Irving were also playing Cleveland had a great chance of a sweep. James has literally played 1 on 5 many games and there is no answer. The constant bricks my Shumpert/Smith/Dellavadova would have been makes by Love/Irving.....and they could have had a 9-10 man rotation.

I've never seen a more impressive performance by an individual player, and I can't stand the guy as a person. He is giving 110% to win a ring for a starting lineup of career long bench players, and they are very close. It's crazy. If they get to game 7, James deserves MVP win or lose.



James is shooting 40% for the series. GS's problem was on offense, not defending Lebron. I think there was a bit of "hands around the throat" syndrome going on the first few games. They don't have Finals experience, James does, and it showed.

The Cavs had to win game 1 to have a chance to win the series. Once GS calmed down and made adjustments their overall superiority has shown.

I watched Irving play in the last game against Atlanta. he was struggling to run up and down the floor after sitting out the previous two games. He was clearly hurting and probably shouldnt have played that game at all. I didn't expect much from him against GS.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#935 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
Induveca wrote:Not surprised at all, James is that good. The inability for the rest of the team to make an outside shot is killing them at this point, as are obvious fatigue issues with the 7 man rotation. First few games that wasn't the case.

Golden State is a great team, but it's pretty obvious if Love/Irving were also playing Cleveland had a great chance of a sweep. James has literally played 1 on 5 many games and there is no answer. The constant bricks my Shumpert/Smith/Dellavadova would have been makes by Love/Irving.....and they could have had a 9-10 man rotation.

I've never seen a more impressive performance by an individual player, and I can't stand the guy as a person. He is giving 110% to win a ring for a starting lineup of career long bench players, and they are very close. It's crazy. If they get to game 7, James deserves MVP win or lose.

I think you are overlooking the fact that Dellavadova and Thompson are MUCH better defenders than Irving and Love. Yeah, the offense would go smoother with Irving and Love, but they would only be taking shots from Lebron, who is shooting at an acceptable efficiency once you factor free throws and low turnovers. But at the other end, Curry and Green would be getting much better looks.

Basically, other than depth/fatigue issues, I'm not convinced that the loss of Irving and Love had significantly hurt the overall performance of the Cavaliers. It's hurt some, but not enough to turn this thing into a sweep for Cleveland.


Agreed. The loss of Irving hurts the most IMO, but I think the Cavs are actually better with Thompson than Love (at least the Love that we saw this season) because of the huge defensive upgrade. Still, had Irving been healthy, I would expect the series to be right where it is (3-2 in either direction).
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NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#936 » by Induveca » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:17 pm

Regardless there is no question in my mind James deserves MVP if he drags a pretty pathetic squad to game 7, win or lose.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#937 » by tontoz » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:15 pm

One thing that has really surprised me about Lebron's game is how much he has been posting up. He didn't do that much in the past and in this series has has been doing it all the time. I always wondered why he didn't try that more given his size.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#938 » by AFM » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:47 pm

Hope CLE wins tonight

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#939 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:06 am

AFM wrote:Hope CLE wins tonight

I'm not ready for the off season


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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 3 

Post#940 » by tontoz » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:50 am

Cavs guards have been an abomination. Delly/JR/Jones/Shump are a combined 5-25.
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