2/5/15 - Wiz @ Hornets

[dckingsfan]

I am now 0-4 in game threads. Behold... the new JI!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, the enthusiasm was good...

[hands11]

Remember how many times this season we said, "it was an ugly win, but a win is a win." Well, a win is not just a win because when you don't play well, it will eventually catch up with you. Its catching up with us now.

Even I am starting to question Wittman. My biggest problem with him is he is too slow to adjust. For example, he waited to long to sub Gortat back in for Blair.

However, its hard to blame the loss on Wittman when Wall makes two horrible turnovers in the last two minutes, Gortat misses two bunnies at the rim, Pierce fails two maintain two rebounds in a row, and Nene rims out what could have been an AND 1 and missed a free throw. The bottom line is that they are just choking at the end and not making winning plays. They seem to have lost all confidence. The wheels are definitely coming off and the Wizards need to make some changes or they are going to slip in the standings real fast.

You are probably wrong here. The other two points have some merit though. This offense is predictable and Randy holds no one accountable if there is suppose to be more cutting then there is. Wall has terrible floor spacing to work with most of the time. That is the sad reality. That is on Wittman, he promotes long 2s, he promotes this archaic piece of crap. They shouldn't be in a dog fight with a team with the talent level of CHA. Randy doesn't have the guys prepared and he can't optimize talent. I've noticed before you tend to blame players more then coaches, and while I am quite the opposite, there is no defending the limitations Randy casts over players with his inability to develop players, coach, game manage and scheme. His defense can't defend the 3 (I get the feeling teams have figured him out, which is great if it gets his ass canned) and it looks like the team is quitting on him.

Doesn't seem all that hard to figure out.

Funny thing is, TOR fans hate their coach. Think he is a total idiot. But I want him coaching against Randy and he seems like Pops. Always a move a head of Randy.

Randy is a Thibs. And Thibs is way over rated. Hell, Randy owns Thibs that's how smart Thibs is.

[truth18]

Yes. Drop him immediately.

God damn. Was offered Evans for him straight up a week ago. Should have pulled the trigger.

Nah, I'm pulling your leg. I don't think it's that bad.

Sheesh; I edited my original post almost immediately after I posted it.

Dude is that Lara in your avy? I'm Trini. Legend

[nuposse04]

Yeah, but like I said, whatever warts Wittman has, it still doesn't excuse the many mistakes the players are making, the lack of energy the last couple of games, the breakdowns in D, the failure to get rebounds, etc. I think pinning all the blame on Wittman and his rotations/timeouts is giving the players an undeserved pass (and giving the GM a pass). The problems with this team right now run much deeper than the coach....the lack of depth, especially at point and Center, and the poor play of some starters like Gortat, are more responsible for these losses than anything Wittman has done IMHO.

Quite honestly I find a large portion of that to be horse crap. It is the coaches job to put players in positions to be successful. Randy only's redeeming quality is that he has them play great defense against marginal opposition. Randy should be criticized and lamented for his lack of game managing abilities and rotations. He should be blamed for being sub par leader. He should be blamed for not developing players. Why should the players bust their ass for a woefully incompetent coach? You really think this offensive system benefits the players? You can't possibly think that.

[queridiculo]

Wittman shouldn't have been brought back, but the Wizards are stuck with him, this season will give him enough rope for another.

The guy that needs to step up is Grunfeld. Once again he has predictably assembled a flawed roster with holes everywhere his rebuild effort was supposed to yield assets.

Perhaps he can find a way to inject some energy into this squad, but I'm not very hopeful.

The leaders of this squad will have to reach within, and find a way to overcome the coaching and talent issues that this roster has.

[hands11]

Please no to Mark Jackson. I'm ok with one of the Warriors assistants including Ron Adams or Alvin Gentry.

And ATL assistant would work as well. They have one fella over there I read about that was a real hot prospect early on. Fell on some hard times making some bad decision. Then went about his business building up his resume over time. DL coaching an all.

I forgot his name.

[keynote]

Dude is that Lara in your avy? I'm Trini. Legend

Good eye.

[nuposse04]

I'd call up Tony Bennett this offseason should UVA have an early exit from the tourney. Seems like an intelligent guy who gets his players to play hard and get a lot out of them.

[dandridge 10]

Remember how many times this season we said, "it was an ugly win, but a win is a win." Well, a win is not just a win because when you don't play well, it will eventually catch up with you. Its catching up with us now.

Even I am starting to question Wittman. My biggest problem with him is he is too slow to adjust. For example, he waited to long to sub Gortat back in for Blair.

However, its hard to blame the loss on Wittman when Wall makes two horrible turnovers in the last two minutes, Gortat misses two bunnies at the rim, Pierce fails two maintain two rebounds in a row, and Nene rims out what could have been an AND 1 and missed a free throw. The bottom line is that they are just choking at the end and not making winning plays. They seem to have lost all confidence. The wheels are definitely coming off and the Wizards need to make some changes or they are going to slip in the standings real fast.

You are probably wrong here. The other two points have some merit though. This offense is predictable and Randy holds no one accountable if there is suppose to be more cutting then there is. Wall has terrible floor spacing to work with most of the time. That is the sad reality. That is on Wittman, he promotes long 2s, he promotes this archaic piece of crap. They shouldn't be in a dog fight with a team with the talent level of CHA. Randy doesn't have the guys prepared and he can't optimize talent. I've noticed before you tend to blame players more then coaches, and while I am quite the opposite, there is no defending the limitations Randy casts over players with his inability to develop players, coach, game manage and scheme. His defense can't defend the 3 (I get the feeling teams have figured him out, which is great if it gets his ass canned) and it looks like the team is quitting on him.

Yep, I will always blame the players more than the coach....they are the ones that are playing the game. The Wizards had plenty of opportunities to win tonight's game despite any flaws in Wittman's system, rotation, timeouts etc. However, they repeatedly squandered them away, all on their own, during the last 2-3 minutes.

But like I have said many times on this board, if it makes people feel all warm and fuzzy that this team wouldn't lose these types of games with a different coach, then more power to you.

[nuposse04]

Remember how many times this season we said, "it was an ugly win, but a win is a win." Well, a win is not just a win because when you don't play well, it will eventually catch up with you. Its catching up with us now.

Even I am starting to question Wittman. My biggest problem with him is he is too slow to adjust. For example, he waited to long to sub Gortat back in for Blair.

However, its hard to blame the loss on Wittman when Wall makes two horrible turnovers in the last two minutes, Gortat misses two bunnies at the rim, Pierce fails two maintain two rebounds in a row, and Nene rims out what could have been an AND 1 and missed a free throw. The bottom line is that they are just choking at the end and not making winning plays. They seem to have lost all confidence. The wheels are definitely coming off and the Wizards need to make some changes or they are going to slip in the standings real fast.

You are probably wrong here. The other two points have some merit though. This offense is predictable and Randy holds no one accountable if there is suppose to be more cutting then there is. Wall has terrible floor spacing to work with most of the time. That is the sad reality. That is on Wittman, he promotes long 2s, he promotes this archaic piece of crap. They shouldn't be in a dog fight with a team with the talent level of CHA. Randy doesn't have the guys prepared and he can't optimize talent. I've noticed before you tend to blame players more then coaches, and while I am quite the opposite, there is no defending the limitations Randy casts over players with his inability to develop players, coach, game manage and scheme. His defense can't defend the 3 (I get the feeling teams have figured him out, which is great if it gets his ass canned) and it looks like the team is quitting on him.

Yep, I will always blame the players more than the coach....they are the ones that are playing the game. The Wizards had plenty of opportunities to win tonight's game despite any flaws in Wittman's system, rotation, timeouts etc. However, they repeatedly squandered them away, all on their own, during the last 2-3 minutes.

But like I have said many times on this board, if it makes people feel all warm and fuzzy that this team wouldn't lose these types of games with a different coach, then more power to you.

The players do PLAY the game, but if you think coaching has no implications on the outcomes than there is probably no getting through that thickness. I would venture to say a lot teams, more then I can remember are being successful in their respective contending or rebuilding stages because they have coaches who are optimizing players. Team basketball can overcome lack of talent, which afflicts us, but it would take a good coach to get that. Yes they squandered the lead today, but outside of Wall, which youngish players has actually become good under Randy due to his ability to coach? I want EG AND Randy gone, both would help.

Like an employer blaming the employees for not selling his **** product.

[dandridge 10]

Remember how many times this season we said, "it was an ugly win, but a win is a win." Well, a win is not just a win because when you don't play well, it will eventually catch up with you. Its catching up with us now.

Even I am starting to question Wittman. My biggest problem with him is he is too slow to adjust. For example, he waited to long to sub Gortat back in for Blair.

However, its hard to blame the loss on Wittman when Wall makes two horrible turnovers in the last two minutes, Gortat misses two bunnies at the rim, Pierce fails two maintain two rebounds in a row, and Nene rims out what could have been an AND 1 and missed a free throw. The bottom line is that they are just choking at the end and not making winning plays. They seem to have lost all confidence. The wheels are definitely coming off and the Wizards need to make some changes or they are going to slip in the standings real fast.

You are probably wrong here. The other two points have some merit though. This offense is predictable and Randy holds no one accountable if there is suppose to be more cutting then there is. Wall has terrible floor spacing to work with most of the time. That is the sad reality. That is on Wittman, he promotes long 2s, he promotes this archaic piece of crap. They shouldn't be in a dog fight with a team with the talent level of CHA. Randy doesn't have the guys prepared and he can't optimize talent. I've noticed before you tend to blame players more then coaches, and while I am quite the opposite, there is no defending the limitations Randy casts over players with his inability to develop players, coach, game manage and scheme. His defense can't defend the 3 (I get the feeling teams have figured him out, which is great if it gets his ass canned) and it looks like the team is quitting on him.

Doesn't seem all that hard to figure out.

Funny thing is, TOR fans hate their coach. Think he is a total idiot. But I want him coaching against Randy and he seems like Pops. Always a move a head of Randy.

Randy is a Thibs. And Thibs is way over rated. Hell, Randy owns Thibs that's how smart Thibs is.

Oh Please. People on this board treated Thibs as a god until the playoffs last year and this year when they are struggling. I recall many people on this board who claimed Thibs would "kill" Randy last year in the playoffs. Now Thibs is "way over rated." You people are the same type of people that claimed Doc Rivers was a horrible coach, until Doc Rivers got three HOF players on his roster and then all of a sudden was a great.

Man, sometimes when I see posts like yours, I would swear that you simply view the the players as just pawns out there in a game of chess between two coaches.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Just finished watching on DVR. Man, we are LOST.

Last 6 minutes or so. No movement, no aggression. What in the world was Wall doing? It wasn't the turnovers, but the standing around on the perimeter.

[nuposse04]

Oh Please. People on this board treated Thibs as a god until the playoffs last year and this year when they are struggling. I recall many people on this board who claimed Thibs would "kill" Randy last year in the playoffs. Now Thibs is "way over rated." You people are the same type of people that claimed Doc Rivers was a horrible coach, until Doc Rivers got three HOF players on his roster and then all of a sudden was a great.

Man, sometimes when I see posts like yours, I would swear that you simply view the the players as just pawns out there in a game of chess between two coaches.

Well I actually think Rivers is horribly overrated and never really got anywhere until he was gifted the big 3. Thibs generally gets more out of his team then he probably should (but running them into the ground in the process). I don't think basketball is quite like football where it is much more strategy but I think coaches and their schemes are becoming far more impactful than you want to think, at least now a days anyways. If you want to give Randy a free pass for promoting long 2s, inability develop talent and inability manage a game, that is fine...but not everyone wants to be subjugated to this level of incompetence.

Although I suppose the masochist in me is enthralled when Randy waits until leads are completely evaporated and then calling a TO.

[nuposse04]

Just finished watching on DVR. Man, we are LOST.

Last 6 minutes or so. No movement, no aggression. What in the world was Wall doing? It wasn't the turnovers, but the standing around on the perimeter.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/cmillscsn/status/563540710327341056[/tweet]

CHA had w/e those plays Randy was calling scoped out pretty well in the last 5 minutes. They couldn't hit anything, though they did get killed on the glass as dandrige correctly pointed out earlier.

I do hope this stirs the pot some.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jorgeccastillo/status/563542597566619649[/tweet]

[dandridge 10]

You are probably wrong here. The other two points have some merit though. This offense is predictable and Randy holds no one accountable if there is suppose to be more cutting then there is. Wall has terrible floor spacing to work with most of the time. That is the sad reality. That is on Wittman, he promotes long 2s, he promotes this archaic piece of crap. They shouldn't be in a dog fight with a team with the talent level of CHA. Randy doesn't have the guys prepared and he can't optimize talent. I've noticed before you tend to blame players more then coaches, and while I am quite the opposite, there is no defending the limitations Randy casts over players with his inability to develop players, coach, game manage and scheme. His defense can't defend the 3 (I get the feeling teams have figured him out, which is great if it gets his ass canned) and it looks like the team is quitting on him.

Yep, I will always blame the players more than the coach....they are the ones that are playing the game. The Wizards had plenty of opportunities to win tonight's game despite any flaws in Wittman's system, rotation, timeouts etc. However, they repeatedly squandered them away, all on their own, during the last 2-3 minutes.

But like I have said many times on this board, if it makes people feel all warm and fuzzy that this team wouldn't lose these types of games with a different coach, then more power to you.

The players do PLAY the game, but if you think coaching has no implications on the outcomes than there is probably no getting through that thickness. I would venture to say a lot teams, more then I can remember are being successful in their respective contending or rebuilding stages because they have coaches who are optimizing players. Team basketball can overcome lack of talent, which afflicts us, but it would take a good coach to get that. Yes they squandered the lead today, but outside of Wall, which youngish players has actually become good under Randy due to his ability to coach? I want EG AND Randy gone, both would help.

Like an employer blaming the employees for not selling his **** product.

Where in my posts did I say that coaching has no implications. I specifically said that coaching can make some difference. However, I just don't think the coach has an impact on win/losses more than the players. You guys blame EVERY loss on Wittman. I think that is just ridiculous, but I'm apparently not going to get through that thickness.

What players have gotten good under Wittman other than Wall? I think Otto has gotten better, Beal has stayed about the same, but he is still young. Seraphin sucks but I doubt anyone else can do much with him. Ariza played better in Wittman's system.

I'll ask this question. What young players that played with Wittman took off on other teams with other coaches? McGee? Young? Blatche? Hmm, maybe the problem is the talent evaluator (EG) and not the coach.

And as to your analogy about the employer blaming the employees for not selling his **** product". That is more of an indictment of EG than Wittman. EG is the employer that assembled the ^^^^ product.

[dandridge 10]

Oh Please. People on this board treated Thibs as a god until the playoffs last year and this year when they are struggling. I recall many people on this board who claimed Thibs would "kill" Randy last year in the playoffs. Now Thibs is "way over rated." You people are the same type of people that claimed Doc Rivers was a horrible coach, until Doc Rivers got three HOF players on his roster and then all of a sudden was a great.

Man, sometimes when I see posts like yours, I would swear that you simply view the the players as just pawns out there in a game of chess between two coaches.

Well I actually think Rivers is horribly overrated and never really got anywhere until he was gifted the big 3. Thibs generally gets more out of his team then he probably should (but running them into the ground in the process). I don't think basketball is quite like football where it is much more strategy but I think coaches and their schemes are becoming far more impactful than you want to think, at least now a days anyways. If you want to give Randy a free pass for promoting long 2s, inability develop talent and inability manage a game, that is fine...but not everyone wants to be subjugated to this level of incompetence.

Although I suppose the masochist in me is enthralled when Randy waits until leads are completely evaporated and then calling a TO.[/quote]

Nuposse, You see me as giving Randy a pass while I see you as giving the players a pass by blaming the losses on the coach. I guess at this point we are just talking over each other and neither of us are going to convince the other they are wrong. Have a good night...I'm hitting the sack.

[miller31time]

Wow, that was tough to watch.

Lots of things to point to for this loss....

- lack of hustle and rebounding
- stagnant offense in the 2nd half
- lack of communication on both ends

Then the usual lack of 3pt attempts due to Wittman's offensive system and the absence of a backup point guard who can direct the offense when Wall is out.

Rough. I wonder when something, if anything, will be done to address any of these issues.

[nuposse04]

Where in my posts did I say that coaching has no implications. I specifically said that coaching can make some difference. However, I just don't think the coach has an impact on win/losses more than the players. You guys blame EVERY loss on Wittman. I think that is just ridiculous, but I'm apparently not going to get through that thickness.

What players have gotten good under Wittman other than Wall? I think Otto has gotten better, Beal has stayed about the same, but he is still young. Seraphin sucks but I doubt anyone else can do much with him. Ariza played better in Wittman's system.

I'll ask this question. What young players that played with Wittman took off on other teams with other coaches? McGee? Young? Blatche? Hmm, maybe the problem is the talent evaluator (EG) and not the coach.

And as to your analogy about the employer blaming the employees for not selling his **** product". That is more of an indictment of EG than Wittman. EG is the employer that assembled the ^^^^ product.

Take the Warriors this season for exmaple. Largely similar roster to last season and they are MUCH better this season. While Curry and Klay are still young they're kinda past the age where they make monumental strides as players. They are winning by a significant margin more, and that is on Kerr. He is maximizing his players. You are right, I do blame most things on Randy, probably a bit more then I should, but I'm fairly confident a competent coach would have made a lot more of our potential losses stomachable.

I'm not sure I'd give Randy much credit for Beal or Otto. Those are number 3 overall picks who come into the league with a sort of pedigree in which you expect them to become good players. Beal is pretty much the same guy plus a bit better on defense. I'll give you Otto I guess.

Blatche had one good season in the Nets, then he got fat again, Booker seems like a more useful player now that he is being told to utilize the 3 pt line. Shelvin Mack is better then any backup PG we have. Shaun livingston, who was here for a bit, is flourishing in GS. Ariza did flourish here. In McGee's last healthy season in Den he had a better WS/48 and TS then he ever did in DC. Khris Humphries is actually having a down year in Randy's system as oppose to Brad Steven's last season. Blair isn't being utilized well at all. Jordan Crawford of all people had a better stint in Bos then he ever did here.

Everybody here knows EG can't assemble a good team, and he isn't a particularly great drafter, but Seraphin was about where he was slotted to be in his draft class, as was Singleton. Jan simply sucked. And haven't gotten good returns on any of those guys and we probably should have since at least in Seraphin's and Singleton's case they weren't drafted way outta their respective rankings.

As to my analogy, I want EG gone NOW, but that doesn't mean EG's sins can be absolved, if Randy was actually a decent coach these issues wouldn't seem so systemic I believe.

[nuposse04]

Oh Please. People on this board treated Thibs as a god until the playoffs last year and this year when they are struggling. I recall many people on this board who claimed Thibs would "kill" Randy last year in the playoffs. Now Thibs is "way over rated." You people are the same type of people that claimed Doc Rivers was a horrible coach, until Doc Rivers got three HOF players on his roster and then all of a sudden was a great.

Man, sometimes when I see posts like yours, I would swear that you simply view the the players as just pawns out there in a game of chess between two coaches.

Well I actually think Rivers is horribly overrated and never really got anywhere until he was gifted the big 3. Thibs generally gets more out of his team then he probably should (but running them into the ground in the process). I don't think basketball is quite like football where it is much more strategy but I think coaches and their schemes are becoming far more impactful than you want to think, at least now a days anyways. If you want to give Randy a free pass for promoting long 2s, inability develop talent and inability manage a game, that is fine...but not everyone wants to be subjugated to this level of incompetence.

Although I suppose the masochist in me is enthralled when Randy waits until leads are completely evaporated and then calling a TO.

Nuposse, You see me as giving Randy a pass while I see you as giving the players a pass by blaming the losses on the coach. I guess at this point we are just talking over each other and neither of us are going to convince the other they are wrong. Have a good night...I'm hitting the sack.[/quote]

Fair enough, my apologies for insinuating you are thick headed. Let us all agree we want to wake up to a firing of EG

[nuposse04]

Wow, that was tough to watch.

Lots of things to point to for this loss....

- lack of hustle and rebounding
- stagnant offense in the 2nd half
- lack of communication on both ends

Then the usual lack of 3pt attempts due to Wittman's offensive system and the absence of a backup point guard who can direct the offense when Wall is out.

Rough. I wonder when something, if anything, will be done to address any of these issues.

The guy who'd address said issues will probably mortgage our 1st rounders in order to address em...so...if we win, we actually lose.