Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[Ruzious]

It looks like Cody Zeller is the odd man out in Charlotte - after they drafted Kaminsky and traded for Hawes. His NBA career has started slowly, but I think he's set to make the same kind of jump his brother did last season and has a higher upside at age 22. And Cha has some miscellaneous pieces that could help the Wiz. Oubre and Nene for Zeller, Marvin Williams (expiring), and PJ Hairston works. Williams can back up either forward position playing 3 and D, and Hairston's another 3 point specialist - coming off a brutal rookie year, but he's got a beautiful looking touch.

Btw, look for Kaminsky to play major minutes right away. Boston offered them 4 1st rounders for the 9th pick (trying to get Justice Winslow), so you know Cha has big plans for Frank The Tank.

[Ruzious]

Would the Lakers trade Ryan Kelly for Blair?

The salaries match up. Blair gives the Lakers some interior brawn. They're reportedly not picking up Jordan Hill's option, so they've got nobody to rebound.

I don't think Blair has any trade value - considering last season and how nobody offered him much a year ago when he was a free agent.

[hands11]

What about Webster + Blair + R.Butler (S&T for vet minimum) for Gerald Wallace?

It clears out some of the dead weight and gets Webster's 2017 buyout off our hands. It would be easier to convince an MLE PF/C like a Brandon Wright go come here if there was clearly plenty of playing time available.

Draft behind us.. 2 more days to go until FA...

Lets get this party started. This was the part I was more intrigued by... The FA period. This is what's going to make the team next year.

What to do with Nene, Webster, Blair, etc. Does Paul return ?

Last year it was Hump and Paul added along with Blair.

The teams profile keeps getting better year over year so getting players should be easier as well. Just have to stick to the plan. The can survive Paul leaving with the right moves but it would feel like unfinished business if he did.

If not for that Wall broken hand.

If Paul stays, they have a chance to start the year stronger then last year when they were still building out the bench with spare parts and UFA signings like R Bulter and an old A Miller as the back up PG. Now they have back to back round round appearances and I first round sweep. That's a better launching point... if Paul returns.

[payitforward]

No no no a million times no. He isn't likely to decline the option -- no one's going to give him a contract of that size an more. He's not good enough to warrant it.

If he had another season like he did in Sacramento last year, then I suspect Upper Decker is right and he would decline his player option and enter free agency in 2016. But I think the risk is too great. If he has an off year or gets hurt, he could easily opt in for 2016 and ruin KD2DC.

Otherwise, it's a pretty good idea. Trade Nene for Gay, sign Brandon Wright to play backup center and roll with this lineup:

PG Wall/Sessions
SG Beal/Webster
SF Porter/Pierce
PF Gay/Hump
C Gortat/Wright

End of bench: Oubre, Blair, Gooden, Temple

To each his own -- I'm not a Rudy Gay fan, never have been. He was ok this year, but not so as to earn his salary. And, even if it were a 1-year rental, it doesn't bring us enough to justify it -- i.e. instead of something that builds the team.

Definitely agree on Brandon Wright however.

If Pierce doesn't return, and we're looking for another 3-4, I'd go after Al Farouq Aminu, Wil Barton, Jae Crowder, even Omri Casspi (who had an excellent season last year) and try to sign one of them at a reasonable rate for 2-3 years. Or Demarre Carroll or Danny Green if we're not going all in for KD cap room.

[payitforward]

what happened to Hill? He went way down hill (as it were) this year. Worth picking up if at a bargain rate?

[nate33]

It looks like Cody Zeller is the odd man out in Charlotte - after they drafted Kaminsky and traded for Hawes. His NBA career has started slowly, but I think he's set to make the same kind of jump his brother did last season and has a higher upside at age 22. And Cha has some miscellaneous pieces that could help the Wiz. Oubre and Nene for Zeller, Marvin Williams (expiring), and PJ Hairston works. Williams can back up either forward position playing 3 and D, and Hairston's another 3 point specialist - coming off a brutal rookie year, but he's got a beautiful looking touch.

Would you really trade Oubre for Zeller at this point? Zeller hasn't really proven he's anything more than "just a guy" in this league. Then factor the difference in contract length and I think the trade looks pretty bad.

[fishercob]

It looks like Cody Zeller is the odd man out in Charlotte - after they drafted Kaminsky and traded for Hawes. His NBA career has started slowly, but I think he's set to make the same kind of jump his brother did last season and has a higher upside at age 22. And Cha has some miscellaneous pieces that could help the Wiz. Oubre and Nene for Zeller, Marvin Williams (expiring), and PJ Hairston works. Williams can back up either forward position playing 3 and D, and Hairston's another 3 point specialist - coming off a brutal rookie year, but he's got a beautiful looking touch.

Would you really trade Oubre for Zeller at this point? Zeller hasn't really proven he's anything more than "just a guy" in this league. Then factor the difference in contract length and I think the trade looks pretty bad.

I'd strongly consider Oubre for Zeller. I understand we'd have two years less of control, but I also those that Oubre is likley to be a net-negative for those two seasons. Zeller put up a very nice Ortg of 108 last season and an above average WS/48 of .123. YODA loved him, and I think he could thrive on a better team that pushes the ball.

He only took one three last year. He shot 35% on long 2's. With better shot selection and the way he runs the floor, he could be a very valuable player.

[nate33]

It looks like Cody Zeller is the odd man out in Charlotte - after they drafted Kaminsky and traded for Hawes. His NBA career has started slowly, but I think he's set to make the same kind of jump his brother did last season and has a higher upside at age 22. And Cha has some miscellaneous pieces that could help the Wiz. Oubre and Nene for Zeller, Marvin Williams (expiring), and PJ Hairston works. Williams can back up either forward position playing 3 and D, and Hairston's another 3 point specialist - coming off a brutal rookie year, but he's got a beautiful looking touch.

Would you really trade Oubre for Zeller at this point? Zeller hasn't really proven he's anything more than "just a guy" in this league. Then factor the difference in contract length and I think the trade looks pretty bad.

I'd strongly consider Oubre for Zeller. I understand we'd have two years less of control, but I also those that Oubre is likley to be a net-negative for those two seasons. Zeller put up a very nice Ortg of 108 last season and an above average WS/48 of .123. YODA loved him, and I think he could thrive on a better team that pushes the ball.

He only took one three last year. He shot 35% on long 2's. With better shot selection and the way he runs the floor, he could be a very valuable player.

I'm really starting to think that guys with Zeller's body type and skill set are going to get squeezed out of rotations as the NBA continues to evolve. The new model of PF is guys like Lebron, Antetokounmpo, Terrence Jones, Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes, Kevin Durant, Paul Millsap, Melo, Tobias Harris, etc. Zeller isn't good enough in the post to take advantage of his size advantage over those guys, and he's not quick enough to stay in front of them defensively.

Three years from now, I think we'd be happier with Porter or Oubre defending the opposing "power forward" than having Zeller do the job.

[nuposse04]

Would you really trade Oubre for Zeller at this point? Zeller hasn't really proven he's anything more than "just a guy" in this league. Then factor the difference in contract length and I think the trade looks pretty bad.

I'd strongly consider Oubre for Zeller. I understand we'd have two years less of control, but I also those that Oubre is likley to be a net-negative for those two seasons. Zeller put up a very nice Ortg of 108 last season and an above average WS/48 of .123. YODA loved him, and I think he could thrive on a better team that pushes the ball.

He only took one three last year. He shot 35% on long 2's. With better shot selection and the way he runs the floor, he could be a very valuable player.

I'm really starting to think that guys with Zeller's body type and skill set are going to get squeezed out of rotations as the NBA continues to evolve. The new model of PF is guys like Lebron, Antetokounmpo, Terrence Jones, Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes, Kevin Durant, Paul Millsap, Melo, Tobias Harris, etc. Zeller isn't good enough in the post to take advantage of his size advantage over those guys, and he's not quick enough to stay in front of them defensively.

Three years from now, I think we'd be happier with Porter or Oubre defending the opposing "power forward" than having Zeller do the job.

If Zeller was a tad quicker it would make up for his alligator arms...and if he was a tad stronger he may actually be able to take advantage of a lot S4s.... if Zeller had more skill then it wouldn't be an issue, but he doesn't look like a starting quality big in this league to me. Kaminsky has some of the same physical flaws, and I would say is less athletic then zeller but at least Kaminsky has post moves and range to help him be effective supposedly...

[Ruzious]

It looks like Cody Zeller is the odd man out in Charlotte - after they drafted Kaminsky and traded for Hawes. His NBA career has started slowly, but I think he's set to make the same kind of jump his brother did last season and has a higher upside at age 22. And Cha has some miscellaneous pieces that could help the Wiz. Oubre and Nene for Zeller, Marvin Williams (expiring), and PJ Hairston works. Williams can back up either forward position playing 3 and D, and Hairston's another 3 point specialist - coming off a brutal rookie year, but he's got a beautiful looking touch.

Would you really trade Oubre for Zeller at this point? Zeller hasn't really proven he's anything more than "just a guy" in this league. Then factor the difference in contract length and I think the trade looks pretty bad.

I'll answer that with a question. Do you really think Oubre's going to accomplish any more in his first 2 seasons than Zeller has?

Or put it this way: Look at Tyler Zeller's progression for his 3 years in the NBA. Cody is the more talented player of the two - nobody would have argued against that based on their college careers - so there's every reason to believe he will improve significantly in his 3rd season.

[Ruzious]

Would you really trade Oubre for Zeller at this point? Zeller hasn't really proven he's anything more than "just a guy" in this league. Then factor the difference in contract length and I think the trade looks pretty bad.

I'd strongly consider Oubre for Zeller. I understand we'd have two years less of control, but I also those that Oubre is likley to be a net-negative for those two seasons. Zeller put up a very nice Ortg of 108 last season and an above average WS/48 of .123. YODA loved him, and I think he could thrive on a better team that pushes the ball.

He only took one three last year. He shot 35% on long 2's. With better shot selection and the way he runs the floor, he could be a very valuable player.

I'm really starting to think that guys with Zeller's body type and skill set are going to get squeezed out of rotations as the NBA continues to evolve. The new model of PF is guys like Lebron, Antetokounmpo, Terrence Jones, Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes, Kevin Durant, Paul Millsap, Melo, Tobias Harris, etc. Zeller isn't good enough in the post to take advantage of his size advantage over those guys, and he's not quick enough to stay in front of them defensively.

Three years from now, I think we'd be happier with Porter or Oubre defending the opposing "power forward" than having Zeller do the job.

Those players you mentioned are all kinds of players. Terrence Jones is a traditional PF - and is built like one. Draymond Green is a very unique player that isn't going to get successfully copied. Harrison will NEVER be a legitimate stretch 4 or any kind of 4. Harris is the definition of an empty stats player. Millsap has the strength and bulk to play PF. Durant's a freak, and hopefully the Greek Freak will develop - and he's not a 6'7 203 lber. The game will evolve some, but I don't see guys like Porter and Oubre ever being legit 4's of any type. I just do not see it ever happening. I think there's a better chance they evolve into 2's.

[nate33]

Or put it this way: Look at Tyler Zeller's progression for his 3 years in the NBA. Cody is the more talented player of the two - nobody would have argued against that based on their college careers - so there's every reason to believe he will improve significantly in his 3rd season.

Fair point. Tyler Zeller went from being a nobody to a surprisingly productive player on a per-minute basis. Interestingly, his on/off differential is pretty bad (-4.9 per 100 possessions). Do you have any explanation why? Is it just "noise" or is he doing something very wrong on offense or defense?

[nate33]

Terrence Jones is a traditional PF - and is built like one. Draymond Green is a very unique player that isn't going to get successfully copied. Harrison will NEVER be a legitimate stretch 4 or any kind of 4. Harris is the definition of an empty stats player. Millsap has the strength and bulk to play PF. Durant's a freak, and hopefully the Greek Freak will develop - and he's not a 6'7 203 lber. The game will evolve some, but I don't see guys like Porter and Oubre ever being legit 4's of any type. I just do not see it ever happening. I think there's a better chance they evolve into 2's.

Most of the guys are mentioned have good face up and ball handling drills. They're generally pretty short in terms of height, but have long arms to compensate. And I'll remind you that Harrison Barnes defended Zach Randolph much of the time against Memphis. He's extremely strong and his ability to defend PF's is what allows Golden State to play Green at center and still match up.

[hands11]

It looks like Cody Zeller is the odd man out in Charlotte - after they drafted Kaminsky and traded for Hawes. His NBA career has started slowly, but I think he's set to make the same kind of jump his brother did last season and has a higher upside at age 22. And Cha has some miscellaneous pieces that could help the Wiz. Oubre and Nene for Zeller, Marvin Williams (expiring), and PJ Hairston works. Williams can back up either forward position playing 3 and D, and Hairston's another 3 point specialist - coming off a brutal rookie year, but he's got a beautiful looking touch.

Would you really trade Oubre for Zeller at this point? Zeller hasn't really proven he's anything more than "just a guy" in this league. Then factor the difference in contract length and I think the trade looks pretty bad.

I'll answer that with a question. Do you really think Oubre's going to accomplish any more in his first 2 seasons than Zeller has?

Or put it this way: Look at Tyler Zeller's progression for his 3 years in the NBA. Cody is the more talented player of the two - nobody would have argued against that based on their college careers - so there's every reason to believe he will improve significantly in his 3rd season.

I was hoping they would find a deal that would move Nene for two contracts of which one we could buy out.

And Zeller was on my board with Len for our pick in that draft when they went Otto which is looking like a safe and solid choice. But Zeller would have to hit that 3 he told us about coming out of college. I haven't seen it.

This is hard to do. We can't screw up 2016.

[hands11]

I'd strongly consider Oubre for Zeller. I understand we'd have two years less of control, but I also those that Oubre is likley to be a net-negative for those two seasons. Zeller put up a very nice Ortg of 108 last season and an above average WS/48 of .123. YODA loved him, and I think he could thrive on a better team that pushes the ball.

He only took one three last year. He shot 35% on long 2's. With better shot selection and the way he runs the floor, he could be a very valuable player.

I'm really starting to think that guys with Zeller's body type and skill set are going to get squeezed out of rotations as the NBA continues to evolve. The new model of PF is guys like Lebron, Antetokounmpo, Terrence Jones, Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes, Kevin Durant, Paul Millsap, Melo, Tobias Harris, etc. Zeller isn't good enough in the post to take advantage of his size advantage over those guys, and he's not quick enough to stay in front of them defensively.

Three years from now, I think we'd be happier with Porter or Oubre defending the opposing "power forward" than having Zeller do the job.

If Zeller was a tad quicker it would make up for his alligator arms...and if he was a tad stronger he may actually be able to take advantage of a lot S4s.... if Zeller had more skill then it wouldn't be an issue, but he doesn't look like a starting quality big in this league to me. Kaminsky has some of the same physical flaws, and I would say is less athletic then zeller but at least Kaminsky has post moves and range to help him be effective supposedly...

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/6

Zeller couldn't suck as a back up C/PF

He would be slotted as a taller young Hump.

[Sluggerface]

The Hornets would never take that deal, so I don't know why you guys are even talking about it. Just seems like more pointless shade to throw at Oubre IMO.

[Ruzious]

Terrence Jones is a traditional PF - and is built like one. Draymond Green is a very unique player that isn't going to get successfully copied. Harrison will NEVER be a legitimate stretch 4 or any kind of 4. Harris is the definition of an empty stats player. Millsap has the strength and bulk to play PF. Durant's a freak, and hopefully the Greek Freak will develop - and he's not a 6'7 203 lber. The game will evolve some, but I don't see guys like Porter and Oubre ever being legit 4's of any type. I just do not see it ever happening. I think there's a better chance they evolve into 2's.

Most of the guys are mentioned have good face up and ball handling drills. They're generally pretty short in terms of height, but have long arms to compensate. And I'll remind you that Harrison Barnes defended Zach Randolph much of the time against Memphis. He's extremely strong and his ability to defend PF's is what allows Golden State to play Green at center and still match up.

Honestly, I didn't watch GS vs Memphis, but if that really happened, then it's time for ZBo to retire. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this topic.

[Ruzious]

Or put it this way: Look at Tyler Zeller's progression for his 3 years in the NBA. Cody is the more talented player of the two - nobody would have argued against that based on their college careers - so there's every reason to believe he will improve significantly in his 3rd season.

Fair point. Tyler Zeller went from being a nobody to a surprisingly productive player on a per-minute basis. Interestingly, his on/off differential is pretty bad (-4.9 per 100 possessions). Do you have any explanation why? Is it just "noise" or is he doing something very wrong on offense or defense?

Since his +/- was pretty much the opposite the year before with Cleveland, I'd say "noise" is a good option.

[LyricalRico]

The Brooklyn Nets and Grizzlies recently discussed a potential trade to send former All-Star shooting guard Joe Johnson to Memphis, according to league sources.

The teams could not find a workable deal and have tabled discussions, [url]but sources told ESPN.com that the Nets were encouraged enough in general to believe that they will ultimately find a trade taker for Johnson's mammoth contract[/url], which only has one season left to run but at a massive $24.9 million in 2015-16.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/13167568/brooklyn-nets-memphis-grizzlies-recently-talked-joe-johnson-trade

One step closer to a Nene+filler for Johnson deal that would answer several bench questions for us.

[nate33]

The Brooklyn Nets and Grizzlies recently discussed a potential trade to send former All-Star shooting guard Joe Johnson to Memphis, according to league sources.

The teams could not find a workable deal and have tabled discussions, [url]but sources told ESPN.com that the Nets were encouraged enough in general to believe that they will ultimately find a trade taker for Johnson's mammoth contract[/url], which only has one season left to run but at a massive $24.9 million in 2015-16.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/13167568/brooklyn-nets-memphis-grizzlies-recently-talked-joe-johnson-trade

One step closer to a Nene+filler for Johnson deal that would answer several bench questions for us.

Yeah. And with Brook Lopez opting out, they are very thin at center.