Some board changes and our next steps together

[nate33]

I also enjoy reading nate's posts. I imagine his iq is off the charts. The rest of you is suck.

The rest of you ARE suck.

ARE suck.

I think Doug Blew is correct. I'm pretty sure the proper conjugation is "IS suck" in all circumstances.

[doclinkin]

You joined this board a little over 2 years ago - and I'm glad you did. Presumably you left another one to come here - probably because the former lacked structure and effective Mods who cared enough to make it a home for Wiz fans. You have that here, so stop complaining about your good fortune. All your relevant points have been made.

Actually he joined from a board that evaporated presumably because the Owner of the company associated wanted a little more control over what was and was not said about his product. That vibrant community was blowed up like the Death Star. Which sucks because now you have to correspond with DJ and Glenn by twitter instead of having a riotously uniformed friendly conversation with the voices of the team, and the mob of passionate and less stat based fans.

[Illuminaire]

I greatly respect posters like Doc who feel unsettled or even angry about this. I also respect the mods for making a difficult choice, then standing here in front of the community and trying to be as transparent as possible. That is a very difficult thing, and I hope we can all give them the same grace and kindness that some might wish had been extended to Hands.

I will make one more note, probably my last on this. I have a great deal of trouble seeing Hands as a victim in this... at all. He could be incredibly insulting and dismissive of others, and for all the talks of cliques on the board, Hands was unique in forming a clique of one. The only voice he appeared to care about was his own.

That, more than anything, is what makes this all a little perplexing to me. Hands loved the Zards, and he loved posting here, but I don't know that he actually appreciated the other people taking part in any discussion. He didn't agree with an opinion, he co-opted it; he didn't disagree, he fired endless broadsides until the other side stopped talking. He was not a good source of discussion, debate, or conversation. He pontificated rather than dialogued, and he did so at an incredible volume.

I suppose my point is, I really respect those who feel a social responsibility to stand up for the community. I just don't think Hands himself would have been in this number - he never displayed the same concern for others that people are showing for him right now. And that, in it's essence, is why he was given the boot.

[Cramer]

I also enjoy reading nate's posts. I imagine his iq is off the charts. The rest of you is suck.

The rest of you ARE suck.

ARE suck.

I think Doug Blew is correct. I'm pretty sure the proper conjugation is "IS suck" in all circumstances.

Diderotin (sp?) references. Awesome.

It is IS suck. As in Doug Collins is suck.

[dobrojim]

I mostly agree with fish's thoughts on this. That hands the person might feel bad today, and won't get to participate on this board...well that sucks for him. But, he's been the lone fixture on my ignore list for virtually all of the last couple seasons. So I can't say I'll miss him.

I had no part in the decision to ban him, but I support it. If there's a board vote on bringing him back, you can put me down now for "against."

had him on ignore for a long time as much because his posts were so poorly edited as anything else.

I am curious about what awareness hands may have had that this was coming.

I'm thinking I'll miss his being putdown by other posters documenting how he was on both
sides of many issues, but that's really not a very mature attitude on my part. I should aspire
to higher forms of entertainment.

I've been here a long time and just hope that I never reach the point of forcing mods to
consider banning me.

[nate33]

I've been here a long time and just hope that I never reach the point of forcing mods to
consider banning me.

This sentiment is a little frustrating from this moderator's standpoint.

I think this might be a good point to repost Pine's post from a few pages ago:

Okay, everybody. Stop, just stop already. How many people have been banned in the last 5 years by Wizards mods. List them here. I'll wait while you do that.....[waiting]

Wow, what a robust and big list of bans...I guess this board is ban-happy. So I guess you're right barely, you're next. Then you, AFM. etc, etc, etc.

Give me a break.

[pineappleheadindc]

Ok, so I don't gainsay the process you Mods went through, and I'm sure that you would never *want* to ban anyone -- after all, look at the way you're being raked over the coals right now: no one would *want* that! I understand that Hands was advised frequently that his posts were annoying. I understand as well that he was several times banned for shorter or longer periods.

To the Mods, dealing with Hands as an individual, a recalcitrant one at that, must have come to seem a burden. I mean other participants aren't requiring me (i.e. a Mod) to put in time in this way.

In other words, maybe it was as much or even more because of the PITA Hands was *to you* that he was banned than because of the PITA he (undeniably) was to some other participants here.

Is there anything to this train of thought? I.e. would you agree that his being a PITA / time sink for you Mods was part of what got Hands banned? Were you conscious of this issue in your process, and if so what role did it play?

Now... it's a fair question whether taking too much attention and time from the Mods is a legitimate reason to ban someone. It's not out of the question. Yet... being a Mod is a volunteer job -- you can always step away from it. At this point, however, I'm only inquiring as to fact.

The mod team considered this carefully. We took lots of time to carefully and transparently craft a NUMBER of posts here that were long, and detailed, and factual. They articulated the reasons for hands ban. I've explained how RealGM works in terms of banning. To repeat: You don't get banned capriciously. You have to first be warned a number of times. THEN, you get a suspension or two. THEN (in hands case) you got banned at the General Board. Then an admin has to sign off on whether or not the poster is banned as mods are not able to ban anyone on their own.

We've tried not to get into details that are to embarrassing and whatever for the poster. For they are not germane to discussion and do not add value. But upon suggestion from outside, let me tell you. If you have 25 different warning notes in your user profile about mod warnings, suspensions and board bans, etc in 5 years -- yeah, you're going to be banned. To publicly compare and contrast this with you, PIF, you have zero warning notes or anything in your user profile. You self-identify as a potential next guy banned and if you're making an attempt to be self-aware, you've failed. You're nowhere near banning.

Which means what? For all the back-and-forth you do (and you admit to) on these boards, nobody on the mod team is concerned. You (and anyone) are free to hold whatever opinions you have and express them in a manner that does not muck up the board. That hands is banned should tell you that his behavior has been beyond acceptable and that he has had ample warning.

Yet, you and others -- frustratingly so -- feel like you can make up reasons for hands banning irrespective of the fact that we have tried really hard to be transparent about things. It's like you can't return the respect we've tried to give all of you by providing long notes on what happened with the mere favor of just reading it for comprehension. So this thread has devolved into a number of users just making up their own reasons for why hands was banned.

-- He was dyslexic.
-- He was a pain. (So why don' t you step away if you can't do your jobs, mods)
-- He was too much of a fan.
-- He defended EG too much.

Stop. And everyone else stop.

The reality does not coincide with whatever you imagine in your head. From the very beginning, we've tried to be upfront with you. Tell you what's going on and why. Please read for understanding. And if you don't believe what I and other mods have written, and I've said this before, come back to this thread, be a man, and call me a liar to my face.

This is an extraordinary action. The Wizards mod team does not really ban a lot of people. The numbers and facts bear this out as true. You really have to *earn* being banned and hands did. Period.

Pine

[pineappleheadindc]

I've been here a long time and just hope that I never reach the point of forcing mods to
consider banning me.

This sentiment is a little frustrating from this moderator's standpoint.

Nate +1

[dobrojim]

A ban seems extreme. We will have to see if a hands exile will bring more traffic although I would point to the increased competition in sporting news websites.

I assume that the mods had warned hands about his posting habits. Maybe hands could rejoin one day by posting less and lengthy messages.

Hands did have some memorable exchanges with good posters like Doc.

I think the functionality of the ignore button should work to ignore posts that quote the person who you wish to ignore. Although for me the scroll option is good enough.

I just hope hands has an outlet for his Wizards fandom. He was at least a unique voice that tried to encourage debate.

I highly recommend this!

[pineappleheadindc]

I also enjoy reading nate's posts. I imagine his iq is off the charts. The rest of you is suck.

Welcome back -- it's been a long time. Hope you'll come back often and make it a habit.

Do you really WANT to have that as your current avatar?

Just askin'

[dobrojim]

I've been here a long time and just hope that I never reach the point of forcing mods to
consider banning me.

This sentiment is a little frustrating from this moderator's standpoint.

I think this might be a good point to repost Pine's post from a few pages ago:

Okay, everybody. Stop, just stop already. How many people have been banned in the last 5 years by Wizards mods. List them here. I'll wait while you do that.....[waiting]

Wow, what a robust and big list of bans...I guess this board is ban-happy. So I guess you're right barely, you're next. Then you, AFM. etc, etc, etc.

Give me a break.

Thanks Nate.

I guess I'm just feeling self conscious as one who occasionally resemble Hands' trait of posting
multiple notes consecutively.

I echo whoever said I trust the mods. I really do.

[WizTom]

I've been saying this for years! Just look trough my posts. Finally EG gets something write and you'll won't give him credit! Dame.

(Tip of the cap to the dearly departed.)

Sweet Jeebus. The guy came into a private club and talked too much, too loud. He got tossed. Too bad. It happens.

I never complained to the Mods or put hands on ignore. Never even seen the ignore button, to be honest. Even if I had, there was always someone (please, it's fatiguing) to quote him. I did read some of his gibberish and told him once or twice what I thought. But mostly I scrolled merrily past. I gave up when I got carpal tunnel syndrome from all that scrolling.

Now I'm just gonna go click some banner ads because the smartest thing anyone has said was Indu's riff about monetizing this place. If the owners of RealGM listen to him and that happens, there will be changes.

PS: I hate that BiteSizeTV banner. The mute button doesn't work and it seems to be a processor hog. Are you behind that monster, Indu?

[Ruzious]

I also enjoy reading nate's posts. I imagine his iq is off the charts. The rest of you is suck.

The rest of you ARE suck.

ARE suck.

Well same to you, SW - if that's your real name. As Bill the Cat would say, THBBFT!

You can find your high IQ right here.

[Induveca]

Now I'm just gonna go click some banner ads because the smartest thing anyone has said was Indu's riff about monetizing this place. If the owners of RealGM listen to him and that happens, there will be changes.

PS: I hate that BiteSizeTV banner. The mute button doesn't work and it seems to be a processor hog. Are you behind that monster, Indu?

I actually think the advertising strategy here is beyond outdated, as is the technology. DraftKings just raised *another* 200 or so million, purely dedicated to customer and content acquisition.

It would behoove these guys to approach them (or their equally wealthy competitor) via an intermediary (legal firm also with M&A expertise) about an exclusive advertising relationship. I'm not talking banner ads, but embedded stickies with the specifics of the games that evening. It would likely lead to a 20+ million acquisition. We all seem to enjoy analytics, it's ideal on both sides.

I made an offer to buy this place, and/or become a partner a few years ago when sports gambling was rumored to be legalized. It didn't get any further than a conversation........

[WashWiz54]

This would of never happened back before the transplants got here. I respect none of you, and I consider you all gentrified yuppies.

[BigA]

Trying to figure out what I'll do with all the extra time I have from not having to scroll through hands11's posts...

[payitforward]

Ok, so I don't gainsay the process you Mods went through, and I'm sure that you would never *want* to ban anyone -- after all, look at the way you're being raked over the coals right now: no one would *want* that! I understand that Hands was advised frequently that his posts were annoying. I understand as well that he was several times banned for shorter or longer periods.

To the Mods, dealing with Hands as an individual, a recalcitrant one at that, must have come to seem a burden. I mean other participants aren't requiring me (i.e. a Mod) to put in time in this way.

In other words, maybe it was as much or even more because of the PITA Hands was *to you* that he was banned than because of the PITA he (undeniably) was to some other participants here.

Is there anything to this train of thought? I.e. would you agree that his being a PITA / time sink for you Mods was part of what got Hands banned? Were you conscious of this issue in your process, and if so what role did it play?

Now... it's a fair question whether taking too much attention and time from the Mods is a legitimate reason to ban someone. It's not out of the question. Yet... being a Mod is a volunteer job -- you can always step away from it. At this point, however, I'm only inquiring as to fact.

Pif... I'd like hands back, but stop. I don't know if you think you're being clever or what, but that last paragraph was tiresome at best. It was even worse than you making me look up an internet acronym - not a good sign that you're that familiar with it, btw. You joined this board a little over 2 years ago - and I'm glad you did. Presumably you left another one to come here - probably because the former lacked structure and effective Mods who cared enough to make it a home for Wiz fans. You have that here, so stop complaining about your good fortune. All your relevant points have been made.

Ruzious -- as I wrote last night, I went to bed considering whether I'd overstated my case. I am not sure, to tell the truth, and I also don't know whether it matters.

I'm definitely not complaining about the Mods -- I did say that banning someone because he took up too much of Mods' time might well be legit. And that I'm *quite* sure this was a tough step for the Mods to take (right there in the post you quote).

I also don't expect anyone to change his mind because of anything I say.

What I can say with some certainty is that this thread has been quite valuable, and that having started it and participated in it and allowed it to be a place where people could air actual feelings about an emotional subject... that all this is another indication of the gold star job the Mods do for this forum -- including for me. If I gave any other impression it was inadvertent.

So I'm not complaining about my good fortune. Btw, I don't quite get the "internet acronym" reference; I assume you don't mean 'PITA'

[AFM]

Ruzious thought PITA was eaten with hummus

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I mostly agree with fish's thoughts on this. That hands the person might feel bad today, and won't get to participate on this board...well that sucks for him. But, he's been the lone fixture on my ignore list for virtually all of the last couple seasons. So I can't say I'll miss him.

I had no part in the decision to ban him, but I support it. If there's a board vote on bringing him back, you can put me down now for "against."

had him on ignore for a long time as much because his posts were so poorly edited as anything else.

I am curious about what awareness hands may have had that this was coming.

I'm thinking I'll miss his being putdown by other posters documenting how he was on both
sides of many issues, but that's really not a very mature attitude on my part. I should aspire
to higher forms of entertainment.

I've been here a long time and just hope that I never reach the point of forcing mods to
consider banning me.

Pine, for all your good intentions, I believe the number of people who post here started decreasing when this board became regimented with structure and form over free flow.

jim, I can tell that most dislike my style. Many disapprove.

I feel I've posted worse than hands over my past. Now, I feel this is not a place to linger too long. There are seasons for everything in life. This board will conform to that which those in power want it to be. Fine.

I like RealGM. Just not this board, not nearly as much.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I greatly respect posters like Doc who feel unsettled or even angry about this. I also respect the mods for making a difficult choice, then standing here in front of the community and trying to be as transparent as possible. That is a very difficult thing, and I hope we can all give them the same grace and kindness that some might wish had been extended to Hands.

I will make one more note, probably my last on this. I have a great deal of trouble seeing Hands as a victim in this... at all. He could be incredibly insulting and dismissive of others, and for all the talks of cliques on the board, Hands was unique in forming a clique of one. The only voice he appeared to care about was his own.

That, more than anything, is what makes this all a little perplexing to me. Hands loved the Zards, and he loved posting here, but I don't know that he actually appreciated the other people taking part in any discussion. He didn't agree with an opinion, he co-opted it; he didn't disagree, he fired endless broadsides until the other side stopped talking. He was not a good source of discussion, debate, or conversation. He pontificated rather than dialogued, and he did so at an incredible volume.

I suppose my point is, I really respect those who feel a social responsibility to stand up for the community. I just don't think Hands himself would have been in this number - he never displayed the same concern for others that people are showing for him right now. And that, in it's essence, is why he was given the boot.

What I think is that if mods parse hands' posts, they'd find that he got off tangent in episodes. Dude's probably mourning something in real life. PERHAPS he bottomed out the past 3-6 months.

I think the humane thing to do would have been another long suspension, with three or four things NOT TO DO.