Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
Feel free to merge, but with the preseason thread on borrowed time, I thought it would be nice to have a place to discussed the Wizards offensive evolution.
So we've discussed space at length over the years. I think the vast majority of us understand the importance of spreading the floor, shooting more threes, allowing Wall room to play pick and roll with Gortat, find shooters, open up driving lanes, etc.
My question relates to PACE. There's been a lot written about how the Wizards are planning to speed up tempo and play much faster than in years past; the Wiz were just below league average in pace of play last year.
Nivek has pointed out several times over the years that there's no identifiable correlation between pace and offensive efficiency. There are great offenses that played fast and slow, just as there are bad offenses that have played fast and those that have played slow.
So, my question is -- WHY are the Wizards making a concerted effort to play faster? What about a faster pace do they think will lead to more efficiency? Is it beyond "John Wall is fast"? I'd rather get a good shot late than a bad shot quickly. I want to understand the relationship between pace and space -- if there is one. Do small teams tend to play more quickly? I suppose that stands to a certain amount of reason, but I want to know more.
So we've discussed space at length over the years. I think the vast majority of us understand the importance of spreading the floor, shooting more threes, allowing Wall room to play pick and roll with Gortat, find shooters, open up driving lanes, etc.
My question relates to PACE. There's been a lot written about how the Wizards are planning to speed up tempo and play much faster than in years past; the Wiz were just below league average in pace of play last year.
Nivek has pointed out several times over the years that there's no identifiable correlation between pace and offensive efficiency. There are great offenses that played fast and slow, just as there are bad offenses that have played fast and those that have played slow.
So, my question is -- WHY are the Wizards making a concerted effort to play faster? What about a faster pace do they think will lead to more efficiency? Is it beyond "John Wall is fast"? I'd rather get a good shot late than a bad shot quickly. I want to understand the relationship between pace and space -- if there is one. Do small teams tend to play more quickly? I suppose that stands to a certain amount of reason, but I want to know more.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
I think (but I don't know) that they think they have depth and speed at the wings and PG. And that increased pace will lead to a breakdown in the oppositions defense and then an increase into our offensive efficiency. Couple that with no real back to the basket bigs and it would seem that a faster pace would be the logical offensive method.
This is a guess though...
This is a guess though...
Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
I would like more pace in terms of initiating our offense, not necessarily shooting the ball. Often it seemed the offense wouldn't even really start until 10-14 second left on the shot clock. When you start that late, you can't run too many options before it's time for a desparation shot.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
They are taking ques from the Toronto series were they played much faster (and efficiently) as well. John Wall is a one-man wrecking crew when he pushes the ball quickly down court, aggressively seeking opportunities. It puts an incredible amount of pressure on the defense to get back quickly which often leads to wide open looks for shooters.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
Agreed.
I also think that depth has something to do with it. I think they feel confident that they're one of the deepest teams in the league and having Sessions, Anderson/Martell, Dudley/Oubre, Gooden, Nene as the 2nd unit will beat teams as well. They can cut the starters minutes by 10% if needed. What other teams can really afford to do that?
I said this early on, but i think you're going to see a hell of a year from Nene. He's going to absolutely abuse backup 5's with his physicality and first step.
I also think that depth has something to do with it. I think they feel confident that they're one of the deepest teams in the league and having Sessions, Anderson/Martell, Dudley/Oubre, Gooden, Nene as the 2nd unit will beat teams as well. They can cut the starters minutes by 10% if needed. What other teams can really afford to do that?
I said this early on, but i think you're going to see a hell of a year from Nene. He's going to absolutely abuse backup 5's with his physicality and first step.
Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
I am just giddy.
For years many fans have pleaded for more spacing for John Wall so that his skill-set can be maximized. The offense we are running fits into the strengths of our franchise player. I am extremely optimistic about the success of the team this year, and John Wall emerging as a MVP candidate because of our success.
The main thing for us to be successful however lies in our defense. If we can continue to be a top 10 defense team and use that to fuel our offense then look out.
We really are following a GS model and our success will be dependent first upon Wall utilizing the new offense/change of philosophy to create open looks for the entire team, and then the freedom of Otto and Brad to show that they were worthy of top 3 picks in the draft.
For years many fans have pleaded for more spacing for John Wall so that his skill-set can be maximized. The offense we are running fits into the strengths of our franchise player. I am extremely optimistic about the success of the team this year, and John Wall emerging as a MVP candidate because of our success.
The main thing for us to be successful however lies in our defense. If we can continue to be a top 10 defense team and use that to fuel our offense then look out.
We really are following a GS model and our success will be dependent first upon Wall utilizing the new offense/change of philosophy to create open looks for the entire team, and then the freedom of Otto and Brad to show that they were worthy of top 3 picks in the draft.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
Dat2U wrote:They are taking ques from the Toronto series were they played much faster (and efficiently) as well. John Wall is a one-man wrecking crew when he pushes the ball quickly down court, aggressively seeking opportunities. It puts an incredible amount of pressure on the defense to get back quickly which often leads to wide open looks for shooters.
In the regular season, the Wizards played at a pace of 93.7 possessions per 48 minutes. In the Toronto series, they played at 93.8 possessions per 48 minutes. I agree that they FELT faster, but that's probably an illusion caused by the ball going through the basket more often.
To fish's post, there are several things to think about with pace. First, in general, teams get higher percentage shots in transition -- at-rim, threes or fouls because you're beating some defenders back, the defense isn't organized and matched up, so you can get shots you want. Last season, the Wizards shot .559 (efg) in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock, .488 from 11-15 seconds elapsed, .456 from 15-20 seconds, and .428 in the last 4 seconds of the shot clock. These numbers -- at least the decline -- are essentially the same team-by-team around the league.
Second, even if you don't get an ideal shot (at-rim, three or foul), there's a benefit to pushing the ball up the floor quickly (even after an opponent score or deadball turnover), in that it gives you more time to run your halfcourt set.
Third, in the halfcourt, the Wizards were antiquated, glacial, and kinda nonsensical the past few seasons. Their sets had players and the ball moving around from place to place, but often without much purpose. They'd run their motion, and then...still have nothing, so they'd have to do something else (sometimes just improvised) to get a shot
All that said, I'm not certain the number of possessions (or even how quickly the team shoots) is what they're talking about when they say "pace." I think what they're really talking about might be how quickly the ball and players move. Back to last season, the word "stagnant" comes to mind, in part because the ball was often still while the players jogged through the sets. My guess is "pace" as a point of emphasis this year is about running the floor hard in transition, but also about moving fast/quick in the halfcourt, and keeping the ball in motion.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
Thank Nivs. It wouldn't surprise me if the team plays at roughly the same pace this season, even if they "play faster," if you catch my drift. As you allude to, all teams would like to play fast -- to push the ball for transition layups, three's and fouls -- but there's a defense trying to prevent just that.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
The Wizards pushed the ball whenever possible. Off turnovers. Off missed shots. Off made shots. Off everything. They spaced the floor with four players floating around the three-point line the entire contest, repeatedly driving and kicking until a satisfactory shot was created.
The hope is the style of play will exhaust opponents, as it exhausted the 76ers on Tuesday.
In addition to pushing the pace and spacing the floor, the Wizards plan on calling fewer set plays than in the past. The objective is to master a drive-and-kick offense with constant ball movement that other teams have utilized.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
If they want a faster pace, maybe Paul Westhead is available to do some consulting.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
TheSecretWeapon wrote:Dat2U wrote:They are taking ques from the Toronto series were they played much faster (and efficiently) as well. John Wall is a one-man wrecking crew when he pushes the ball quickly down court, aggressively seeking opportunities. It puts an incredible amount of pressure on the defense to get back quickly which often leads to wide open looks for shooters.
In the regular season, the Wizards played at a pace of 93.7 possessions per 48 minutes. In the Toronto series, they played at 93.8 possessions per 48 minutes. I agree that they FELT faster, but that's probably an illusion caused by the ball going through the basket more often.
To fish's post, there are several things to think about with pace. First, in general, teams get higher percentage shots in transition -- at-rim, threes or fouls because you're beating some defenders back, the defense isn't organized and matched up, so you can get shots you want. Last season, the Wizards shot .559 (efg) in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock, .488 from 11-15 seconds elapsed, .456 from 15-20 seconds, and .428 in the last 4 seconds of the shot clock. These numbers -- at least the decline -- are essentially the same team-by-team around the league.
Second, even if you don't get an ideal shot (at-rim, three or foul), there's a benefit to pushing the ball up the floor quickly (even after an opponent score or deadball turnover), in that it gives you more time to run your halfcourt set.
Third, in the halfcourt, the Wizards were antiquated, glacial, and kinda nonsensical the past few seasons. Their sets had players and the ball moving around from place to place, but often without much purpose. They'd run their motion, and then...still have nothing, so they'd have to do something else (sometimes just improvised) to get a shot
All that said, I'm not certain the number of possessions (or even how quickly the team shoots) is what they're talking about when they say "pace." I think what they're really talking about might be how quickly the ball and players move. Back to last season, the word "stagnant" comes to mind, in part because the ball was often still while the players jogged through the sets. My guess is "pace" as a point of emphasis this year is about running the floor hard in transition, but also about moving fast/quick in the halfcourt, and keeping the ball in motion.
They are playing faster (i.e.) getting into their sets a lot faster. It's easier to attack a defense when they are on their heels and your forcing them to react. Instead of taking 10-15 seconds to get into an actual play against a set defense... put immediate pressure on the D by pushing the ball and forcing them to recover and creating defensive assignment breakdowns with good ball movement.
Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
TheSecretWeapon wrote:
All that said, I'm not certain the number of possessions (or even how quickly the team shoots) is what they're talking about when they say "pace." I think what they're really talking about might be how quickly the ball and players move. Back to last season, the word "stagnant" comes to mind, in part because the ball was often still while the players jogged through the sets. My guess is "pace" as a point of emphasis this year is about running the floor hard in transition, but also about moving fast/quick in the halfcourt, and keeping the ball in motion.
The way in which the Zards were moving the ball and bodies in half-court is something that stood out for me in the game on Tuesday. It was indeed much faster than in the past...the ball rarely stayed in one player's hands, including Wall's, for more than a couple of seconds.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
This bears more discussion. Consider last year's leaders in offensive efficiency:
1. Clippers
2. Warriors
3. Cavs
4. Raptors
5. Mavs
6. Hawks
7. Spurs
The Warriors led the league pace. The Clippers were 14th. Cavs were 25th and the Raps were 21st. Dallas was 9th, and the Hawks and Spurs -- two "pace and space" stalwarts were both right at league average.
This reminds of the point Nivek has made over the years about how the Wizards misdiagnose and overcorrect. They responded to the difficulties of "knuckleheaded youth" (Vale, Dray, Steez, Young), by bringing in a bunch of old guys who also weren't very good. When they have needed "shooters" they go out and get guys who can only shoot.
PACE should not mean recklessly advancing the ball up court. Yes, the Wizards should push the ball so as to get into their sets quickly (Spurs and Hawks are perfect examples) and try to catch the D napping when they can. BUt when it isn't there right away, PACE should refer to the speed the ball moves. In the half court, take advantage of the opportunities provided by SPACE to get better shots -- more 3's, shots at the rim and free throws. That old NBA axiom is crucial here: get it early or get it late; if you can score in "seven seconds or less, then great." If NOT, use your time to move the defense around so that you DO get a great shot.
Jared Dudley shouldn't be a featured player on the fastest paced team in the league, should he? He's a good player, but that's not playing to his strengths. With our dearth of frontcourt depth, why run TOO much and exhaust the good players that we have.
Keep the space, but be smarter about the pace.
1. Clippers
2. Warriors
3. Cavs
4. Raptors
5. Mavs
6. Hawks
7. Spurs
The Warriors led the league pace. The Clippers were 14th. Cavs were 25th and the Raps were 21st. Dallas was 9th, and the Hawks and Spurs -- two "pace and space" stalwarts were both right at league average.
This reminds of the point Nivek has made over the years about how the Wizards misdiagnose and overcorrect. They responded to the difficulties of "knuckleheaded youth" (Vale, Dray, Steez, Young), by bringing in a bunch of old guys who also weren't very good. When they have needed "shooters" they go out and get guys who can only shoot.
PACE should not mean recklessly advancing the ball up court. Yes, the Wizards should push the ball so as to get into their sets quickly (Spurs and Hawks are perfect examples) and try to catch the D napping when they can. BUt when it isn't there right away, PACE should refer to the speed the ball moves. In the half court, take advantage of the opportunities provided by SPACE to get better shots -- more 3's, shots at the rim and free throws. That old NBA axiom is crucial here: get it early or get it late; if you can score in "seven seconds or less, then great." If NOT, use your time to move the defense around so that you DO get a great shot.
Jared Dudley shouldn't be a featured player on the fastest paced team in the league, should he? He's a good player, but that's not playing to his strengths. With our dearth of frontcourt depth, why run TOO much and exhaust the good players that we have.
Keep the space, but be smarter about the pace.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
fishercob wrote:This bears more discussion. Consider last year's leaders in offensive efficiency:
1. Clippers
2. Warriors
3. Cavs
4. Raptors
5. Mavs
6. Hawks
7. Spurs
The Warriors led the league pace. The Clippers were 14th. Cavs were 25th and the Raps were 21st. Dallas was 9th, and the Hawks and Spurs -- two "pace and space" stalwarts were both right at league average.
This reminds of the point Nivek has made over the years about how the Wizards misdiagnose and overcorrect. They responded to the difficulties of "knuckleheaded youth" (Vale, Dray, Steez, Young), by bringing in a bunch of old guys who also weren't very good. When they have needed "shooters" they go out and get guys who can only shoot.
PACE should not mean recklessly advancing the ball up court. Yes, the Wizards should push the ball so as to get into their sets quickly (Spurs and Hawks are perfect examples) and try to catch the D napping when they can. BUt when it isn't there right away, PACE should refer to the speed the ball moves. In the half court, take advantage of the opportunities provided by SPACE to get better shots -- more 3's, shots at the rim and free throws. That old NBA axiom is crucial here: get it early or get it late; if you can score in "seven seconds or less, then great." If NOT, use your time to move the defense around so that you DO get a great shot.
Jared Dudley shouldn't be a featured player on the fastest paced team in the league, should he? He's a good player, but that's not playing to his strengths. With our dearth of frontcourt depth, why run TOO much and exhaust the good players that we have.
Keep the space, but be smarter about the pace.
Yeah... I thought in the playoffs the pace was good. They weren't rushing the ball up court unless it was a turnover or a long rebound and outlet pass.
Turnovers were also pretty under control. They should take cues from the film in the Spring
Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
I think the other thing that is happening is that the defense is suffering badly with our new pace... less energy spent on D than on O.
Naturally, I have no proof
Not sure how you would estimate the energy expended...
Naturally, I have no proof
Not sure how you would estimate the energy expended...
Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
Said this in the other thread: "Lost in Space" have been sound defense and sound, fundamental plays.
I agree that energy isn't being expended on defense. Attention to detail is also suffering.
I agree that energy isn't being expended on defense. Attention to detail is also suffering.
Bye bye Beal.
Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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I don't think we have the type of players to play this way consistently over 82 games. Need more athletic young shooters around Wall and Beal.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
Wall, Beal and Porter are fine that way, but if Ernie wanted a team built with a higher pace which is geared towards the strengths of its best players, then bringing in guys like Anderson, Neal, Humphries, Gooden, Nene, Blair, Sessions and Dudley isn't exactly the way most teams would go about building a team that runs and passes a lot with an emphasis on speed. Gortat isn't exactly a speed demon, either, but as a rebounder who starts the push he could at least fit there. It isn't bad to slow things down, and given the nature of the Wizards' active roster, it will likely prove to be an increasing necessity at times. I do think the Wizards could potentially get more from their best players with a different supporting cast that lined up more with their strengths in mind, though.
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
We've been applauding Randy all summer leading up to the season for his willingness to implement a more open style. Consider this, though - he may want to do it, but can he really coach it? He's going against what appears to have been his personal basketball philosophy for his entire career, so there's going to be a learning curve for him too. And I don't think they added any assistants from teams that have already been successful running this kind of offense.
That's one reason why I brought up Alvin Gentry's name in the old "replace Randy" thread, because he has history with high-powered offenses. Heck, we might want to snap up Luke Walton while the iron is hot. LOL
That's one reason why I brought up Alvin Gentry's name in the old "replace Randy" thread, because he has history with high-powered offenses. Heck, we might want to snap up Luke Walton while the iron is hot. LOL
Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
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Re: Pace and Space: The Wizards' New Offense
Hey Lyrical - it is puzzling that they didn't add a pace&space coach in the off-season. It doesn't have to be the head coach... and as Dirt points out - we didn't exactly add the personnel to run the system either.
Having said all that - I think we are going to need 20 games to see if this is going to work (or not). The question is, will they be patient enough to see if it will work or will there be a knee-jerk reaction.
Having said all that - I think we are going to need 20 games to see if this is going to work (or not). The question is, will they be patient enough to see if it will work or will there be a knee-jerk reaction.