Who will be better: Beal or Porter?

[theboomking]

Porter may be better, but I think people here are underselling Beal. Beal is a 22yo player that has multiple playoff series in which he has defended well and been the featured offensive player and has scored both in volume and with relatively good efficiency. He is a proven playoff caliber player and a winner. That is a max player. Especially when you consider the pay of a first max contract and that the cap will be ballooning. We absolutely should not move Beal for financial reasons. I'd only move him if we had a star or borderline star big returning in the trade. A Dummond or Cousins caliber player.

[nate33]

Porter may be better, but I think people here are underselling Beal. Beal is a 22yo player that has multiple playoff series in which he has defended well and been the featured offensive player and has scored both in volume and with relatively good efficiency. He is a proven playoff caliber player and a winner. That is a max player. Especially when you consider the pay of a first max contract and that the cap will be ballooning. We absolutely should not move Beal for financial reasons. I'd only move him if we had a star or borderline star big returning in the trade. A Dummond or Cousins caliber player.

I don't think anybody has suggest that we let Beal walk. I'd trade him for Cousins or maybe for an all-star caliber big man like Love, but that's the only way I'd envision him not being with us for the future. Given the choice between paying him the max and letting him walk, I'd pay him the max.

I'm just a little uneasy about Beal's upside. I think we all hoped that he would pan out to be Ray Allen or other similar perennial-All-Star SG. I'm worried that his ceiling is quite a bit below that. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a career more like Hersey Hawkins or Rip Hamilton - an above-average starter who maybe sneaks into an All Star game or two, but nothing more.

[fishercob]

Who was better -- Parker or Manu? Wade or Bosh? Rodman or Dumars? McHale or Parrish?

Answering whether Porter or Beal will be better is useful when considering trade opportunities, projecting their likely market value and compensation, etc.

But as basketball remains a team sport, I'm really most interested in how good they can be together. Just my $.02.

[nate33]

Who was better -- Parker or Manu? Wade or Bosh? Rodman or Dumars? McHale or Parrish?

Answering whether Porter or Beal will be better is useful when considering trade opportunities, projecting their likely market value and compensation, etc.

But as basketball remains a team sport, I'm really most interested in how good they can be together. Just my $.02.

Manu, Wade, Rodman and McHale.

[DCZards]

Who was better -- Parker or Manu? Wade or Bosh? Rodman or Dumars? McHale or Parrish?

Answering whether Porter or Beal will be better is useful when considering trade opportunities, projecting their likely market value and compensation, etc.

But as basketball remains a team sport, I'm really most interested in how good they can be together. Just my $.02.

Manu, Wade, Rodman and McHale.

Maybe those guys were better...maybe not. But would the Spurs, Heat, Pistons and Celts have won championships without Parker, Bosh, Dumars and Parrish? Maybe...maybe not.

I'm with Fish when it comes to these "who will be better" debates between teammates who are probably equally important when it comes to the future success of their teams. Does it really matter if one turns out to be better than the other?

[Illmatic12]

Packaging Beal for Kevin Love and his contract would be awful. That would be a move that ends up frustrating our entire fanbase. Love doesn't even look good playing next to Lebron, he's not a winner and plays Jamison-like defense. On top of that he's an injury risk.

If we're sending Beal out, as said above it has to be a big man like Cousins coming back.

[Vincent_Askew]

As an outsider looking in who has watched a number of Wiz games I am shocked to see that a big portion of the fanbase preferring Porter to Beal.

Do you guys think that if we threw a max at Beal that your FO would match, realistically?

[nuposse04]

As an outsider looking in who has watched a number of Wiz games I am shocked to see that a big portion of the fanbase preferring Porter to Beal.

Do you guys think that if we threw a max at Beal that your FO would match, realistically?

Absolutely. You have no shot at acquiring him unless you trade considerable assets, and considering the only Knicks player who is interesting is KP it is a pipe dream that ought to die now No harm in trying though


As far as the whole discussion goes, lets compare Beal and Porter 20 or so games into the season.

[Vincent_Askew]

As an outsider looking in who has watched a number of Wiz games I am shocked to see that a big portion of the fanbase preferring Porter to Beal.

Do you guys think that if we threw a max at Beal that your FO would match, realistically?

Absolutely. You have no shot at acquiring him unless you trade considerable assets, and considering the only Knicks player who is interesting is KP it is a pipe dream that ought to die now No harm in trying though


As far as the whole discussion goes, lets compare Beal and Porter 20 or so games into the season.

Dammit, we could really use Beal

[tontoz]

Who was better -- Parker or Manu? Wade or Bosh? Rodman or Dumars? McHale or Parrish?

Answering whether Porter or Beal will be better is useful when considering trade opportunities, projecting their likely market value and compensation, etc.

But as basketball remains a team sport, I'm really most interested in how good they can be together. Just my $.02.

Porter and Beal are both wings and neither are All-Stars. It is much easier to keep two guys who are All-Stars playing very different positions on a title contender. It is not such an easy decision to pay two guys when neither is a big time player.

[nate33]

As an outsider looking in who has watched a number of Wiz games I am shocked to see that a big portion of the fanbase preferring Porter to Beal.

Do you guys think that if we threw a max at Beal that your FO would match, realistically?

It's not so much a criticism of Beal, but rather a sense of excitement about Porter. Porter is really good. He understands the game so well.

[nate33]

As an outsider looking in who has watched a number of Wiz games I am shocked to see that a big portion of the fanbase preferring Porter to Beal.

Do you guys think that if we threw a max at Beal that your FO would match, realistically?

Absolutely. You have no shot at acquiring him unless you trade considerable assets, and considering the only Knicks player who is interesting is KP it is a pipe dream that ought to die now No harm in trying though

Hmmm. Would you trade Beal for Porzingis? It would balance the roster while saving a ton of money.

[nate33]

Packaging Beal for Kevin Love and his contract would be awful. That would be a move that ends up frustrating our entire fanbase. Love doesn't even look good playing next to Lebron, he's not a winner and plays Jamison-like defense. On top of that he's an injury risk.

If we're sending Beal out, as said above it has to be a big man like Cousins coming back.

I'd have reservations about trading him for Love too. I'd have to think about it. To be fair, it's hard to really excel when Lebron and Kyrie take so many possessions. Love is basically playing a Ryan Anderson role, which he can do, but it doesn't utilize his entire skill set. Let's not forget that this is the same Kevin Love who, two years ago, averaged 26 and 12 with an ORtg of 120.

I really think he needs to be paired with a defensively dominant center though.

[stevemcqueen1]

Beal is better than Porter. Beal is a first option scorer who creates your crunch time scoring on his own. Porter is a weak second or very good third option scorer.

Big picture: Beal is going to lead our team in scoring from here on out probably. And he'll probably become an All Star this year and play at an AS level as a minimum for a while. I can see Porter making the AS game eventually, but I don't see him getting to perennial AS status.

Small picture:

Beal is a more creative and versatile scorer than Porter. He's a much better shooter and better ball handler. And he's a more explosive athlete. He didn't come in with as many well developed scoring tools as Porter did. But he's already developed a better arsenal and he's probably going to keep adding significant facets to it throughout his 20s. He didn't have a mid range game last year. Now he does. He's scoring off step backs and dribble pull ups from 16+ feet, and on floaters inside 15. He can play off the ball and is one of the deadliest spot up shooters in the NBA. And he can run isos on the perimeter and attack multiple defenders off the dribble. Porter has a mid range game, something of a triple threat game, and a high post game, but he does not have a creative perimeter scoring game and he's an inconsistent spot up shooter right now. He's not going to get as good at that as Beal already is. And I think Beal is eventually going to develop a post game and a triple threat game, reminiscent of Pierce. He clearly modeled his new mid range game off of Pierce's this summer.

Both are good passers for their positions, this is a push.

Defense and rebounding--Porter has higher potential. He's much taller and longer, relative to his position as well. And being a third option, he'll naturally take on more of a stopper role. But Beal should be well above average as a defener and rebounder for a SG.

Like Ruz said, Beal is an alpha and that's just not Porter. Beal is a star. Porter is definitely something more than just a three and D wing. Just like Joakim Noah was definitely something more than just a defensive C. But they're not stars, and if you tried to shoe-horn Porter into the role that Beal is going to play for us, he wouldn't be as good.

[nuposse04]

As an outsider looking in who has watched a number of Wiz games I am shocked to see that a big portion of the fanbase preferring Porter to Beal.

Do you guys think that if we threw a max at Beal that your FO would match, realistically?

Absolutely. You have no shot at acquiring him unless you trade considerable assets, and considering the only Knicks player who is interesting is KP it is a pipe dream that ought to die now No harm in trying though

Hmmm. Would you trade Beal for Porzingis? It would balance the roster while saving a ton of money.

I think KP will be a damn good player, but I'd like to see a larger sample size. Also don't think Knicks fans would even consider it, nor should they.

[stevemcqueen1]

Packaging Beal for Kevin Love and his contract would be awful. That would be a move that ends up frustrating our entire fanbase. Love doesn't even look good playing next to Lebron, he's not a winner and plays Jamison-like defense. On top of that he's an injury risk.

If we're sending Beal out, as said above it has to be a big man like Cousins coming back.

I'd have reservations about trading him for Love too. I'd have to think about it. To be fair, it's hard to really excel when Lebron and Kyrie take so many possessions. Love is basically playing a Ryan Anderson role, which he can do, but it doesn't utilize his entire skill set. Let's not forget that this is the same Kevin Love who, two years ago, averaged 26 and 12 with an ORtg of 120.

I really think he needs to be paired with a defensively dominant center though.

Yeah Love can do more than he's showing in Cleveland. He can come off screens and shoot on the move like a wing, he can run two man game with a guard on the perimeter like Nene, and he can scrap in the paint and score around the basket. He's got a fabulous array of below the rim finishes--still much better than Blake Griffin at this.

Problem is he's a third option on a great team, and like Bosh, he's just not going to get enough opportunities to use his whole offensive game. But unlike Bosh, he's not a valuable defender.

I think he could be a great fit here offensively as part of a Wall/Beal construction. Beal is going to become pretty ball dominant, but Wall is something different than everyone else in the game, even LeBron. He is the most ball dominant player in the NBA, and yet he's not really a scorer. He could completely dominate and control our offense and only score 16 PPG. But if you had a Kevin Love caliber shooter at PF, with Beal and Porter on the wings, he could probably average 13 APG.

But a Wall-Love tandem desperately needs Beal to get over the hump and become a machine. It needs a prototypical first option go-to scorer.

[stevemcqueen1]

Who was better -- Parker or Manu? Wade or Bosh? Rodman or Dumars? McHale or Parrish?

Answering whether Porter or Beal will be better is useful when considering trade opportunities, projecting their likely market value and compensation, etc.

But as basketball remains a team sport, I'm really most interested in how good they can be together. Just my $.02.

Manu, Wade, Rodman and McHale.

I'd go Parker, Wade, Dumars, and McHale without question. Manu, I can kind of see a case for, even though Parker was an MVP caliber player as recently as three or four years ago. But you really think Rodman was better than Dumars??

[Illmatic12]

Packaging Beal for Kevin Love and his contract would be awful. That would be a move that ends up frustrating our entire fanbase. Love doesn't even look good playing next to Lebron, he's not a winner and plays Jamison-like defense. On top of that he's an injury risk.

If we're sending Beal out, as said above it has to be a big man like Cousins coming back.

I'd have reservations about trading him for Love too. I'd have to think about it. To be fair, it's hard to really excel when Lebron and Kyrie take so many possessions. Love is basically playing a Ryan Anderson role, which he can do, but it doesn't utilize his entire skill set. Let's not forget that this is the same Kevin Love who, two years ago, averaged 26 and 12 with an ORtg of 120.

I really think he needs to be paired with a defensively dominant center though.

Well Kyrie isn't playing right now. Love has little excuse to be shooting 40% fg as a big man, especially when Lebron has said he's specifically looking to get Love going.

I don't think Kevin Love now is the same player he was on the Wolves, when they were running everything through him. Imo, he has noticeably slimmed down and changed his game to become more perimeter oriented, he no longer has the same strength/low post ability he used to play with when he was bulkier.

Everyone knows about his porous defense and horrible contest % at the rim, But there are a lot of other hidden problems with Kevin Love's game. For example, there are numbers showing that he accumulates most of his stats early in the game, and his production drops off steeply in the 4th q - this has been a trend since Minnesota. He lacks athleticism/length and is not as tall as his listed height (in reality he's only 6'8), which leads to him getting blocked a lot in the post by bigger defenders. And I'm not alone in sharing the opinion that his rebound numbers are somewhat inflated, because he looks to box out at all costs rather than contesting shots. Sometimes he even tries to box out his own teammates for boards (seriously, watch the Cavs play and you'll notice this - he even joked about how Thompson wanted him to stop doing it)


I just never liked the idea that in order for Kevin Love to be effective on a winning team, you have to 1) forcefeed volume offense through him and 2) pair him with a strong defensive big at all times - at the cost of $22mil/yr, that type of money is much better spent on a PF like Paul Millsap.

[TheSecretWeapon]

In my metric, Ginobili rates better than Parker. Not close, really. Ginobili has four seasons as good or better than Parker's best, and two more seasons better than Parker's second best. At no point did Parker rate as an MVP candidate (at least in my metric). Ginobili would have been a fringe NBA candidate 2-3 times.

Similar story with Wade and Bosh, except an even bigger gap. Wade's top 6 seasons are better than Bosh's best.

Rodman had 8 seasons that rated as good or better than Dumars, although 5 of those happened after he left the Pistons.

Parish and McHale are much closer. Parish had the higher peak (PPA: 217), and then had a couple more seasons about as good as McHale's best. Parish had 5 seasons as good or better than McHale's top 3. Parish had a lower career PPA, but also played 7 seasons longer than McHale. If I eliminate that tail, the numbers swing strongly in Parish's favor. I'd lean Parish over McHale, but won't argue overmuch with folks who want to go the other way.

[pcbothwel]

Who was better -- Parker or Manu? Wade or Bosh? Rodman or Dumars? McHale or Parrish?

Answering whether Porter or Beal will be better is useful when considering trade opportunities, projecting their likely market value and compensation, etc.

But as basketball remains a team sport, I'm really most interested in how good they can be together. Just my $.02.

Manu, Wade, Rodman and McHale.

I'd go Parker, Wade, Dumars, and McHale without question. Manu, I can kind of see a case for, even though Parker was an MVP caliber player as recently as three or four years ago. But you really think Rodman was better than Dumars??

Agree with Nate. Manu, Wade, Rodman McHale...

Manu: Remember, Parker was 19 and getting 30 MPG. Manu didnt get to do that until 26. I would have love to see Manu over here at 21/22.
Rodman: My caveat for Rodman is that he was the better player, but I would need the right team to choose him over Dumars. Not so much for skill set, but because he is/was **** crazy.