The sadness, no Rockets Vs Wiz GT (edit -- THIS is the Game Thread)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Not even a prime MJ would make this Turd of a Team a title of contender.

I strongly disagree.

Team would be competitive with Wizards Jordan instead of Bradley Beal.

40 year old Jordan was mean. He was crafty. He had old man game that Beal does not have.

MJ on this team would will it to 45 wins; craptastic bench and all.

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[queridiculo]

The Wizards had some lulls in this game, namely the second quarter, but where it really went sideways was in the fourth with 5 minutes to play.

Turnovers, lapses on defense and poor shots did the Wizards in and sadly most of those miscues came from the guys this franchise has identified as its core.

Wall, Beal, Morris and Gortat.

What's so frustrating watching this game again, Porter might just be the best player on this team and the Wizards are lollygagging with an extension.

That Beal contract is going to kill any chance of the Wizards being relevant anytime soon.

Also, that ejection , I missed it since I turned off the game by then, WTF was that all about..

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Glad I missed this one. Was watching Doctor Who with the kids. Good choice!

I had a great time missing this, too. Recovering from a grueling workout. Talking long distance with my sister, and contact old friends.



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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah I'm coming around on trading Wall. I love Wall and I believe him when he says that he wants to take this franchise to the 'promised land'. But he's not that guy, it's been 7 years now and we're in arguably a worse spot than where we were when we drafted him. St least then, management knew this team sucked and when all in on the rebuild (which looks like a failure now).

Bottom line is he isn't getting much better at this point, and the issues that were raised when he was drafted are still problems that won't go away. He's not a good scorer in the half court, still had a shaky jumper and still turns the ball over a ton. He also half asses it on defense most nights.

He trade value isnjyt henna get any higher than what it is now. I'd trade him for the best offer and tank the season and be done with it. This years draft is PG heavy. If we could get a couple firsts for him and/or a prospect in return, and get a pg in the lottery with our pick this year, I think we'd be in good shape going forward. Of course none of this will happen

Not saying I am against trading Wall, but I think he has made some improvements this year. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, he is trying to take the ball to the hoop more. But yeah his jumper still sucks.

Haven't watched. Have followed from box and summaries.

This is the best Wall yet if numbers are to be believed.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This team is trash



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"I'm here".

I believe that is what he said after he fired Randy Wittman.

Before he even hired Scott Brooks his free agents were on the roster. Right?

He gave Scott Brooks 5 years and 35 million dollars before other coaches like Joerger became available.

None of those other coaches got a deal like Scott Brooks. Luke Walton is tearing it up in LA.

Oh, Ernie. Why? WTH?

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah I'm coming around on trading Wall. I love Wall and I believe him when he says that he wants to take this franchise to the 'promised land'. But he's not that guy, it's been 7 years now and we're in arguably a worse spot than where we were when we drafted him. St least then, management knew this team sucked and when all in on the rebuild (which looks like a failure now).

Bottom line is he isn't getting much better at this point, and the issues that were raised when he was drafted are still problems that won't go away. He's not a good scorer in the half court, still had a shaky jumper and still turns the ball over a ton. He also half asses it on defense most nights.

He trade value isnjyt henna get any higher than what it is now. I'd trade him for the best offer and tank the season and be done with it. This years draft is PG heavy. If we could get a couple firsts for him and/or a prospect in return, and get a pg in the lottery with our pick this year, I think we'd be in good shape going forward. Of course none of this will happen

Not saying I am against trading Wall, but I think he has made some improvements this year. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, he is trying to take the ball to the hoop more. But yeah his jumper still sucks.

We have zero spacing too. Nobody is afraid of Porter, Oubre Jr, Thorton, sometimes Beal when he's on, but I'd wager most teams would gladly let those players shoot 3s if it means preventing Wall from driving or a good PnR with Gortat. Wall could easily flourish on a team with a consistent 3 shooter, a great PnR player, because it would take stress off him being the scoring focal point. At this point we should all know Wall isn't going to drop 25 game in and game out. He's not going to put up Harden/Westbrook/Lilliard scoring numbers. But with the right role players we have seen how well the team can do, but this season is going to be rough, and I'd honestly be open it as well but it'd be a high asking price.

Is Brooks coaching them up?

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

IMO what needs to happen is no deals until EG is gone from authority.



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[montestewart]

It's been said on the Wiz board numerous times, but the failure is directly tied to Terd's plan and building around a good young core "capable of contending for a championship." We saw about four years ago when the Wizards started acquiring the high priced contracts of veterans Nene, Okafor, and Gortat that Terd n Ernie must have thought they had the young core that could eventually contend, and they stopped trying to accumulate young assets ("picks and prospects"), instead merely nurturing and tweaking the recipe. We saw they were blind, and now we see that blindness has led them to overcommit to a young core that shows no signs of ever being able to compete for a championship. I like Wall, but nothing about him says "best player on a contender." I like Porter but he's not anywhere near "best player on a contender." Beal will never be anywhere near "best player on a contender."

That the young core was nowhere near contending wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that their "plan" is both vague and rigid, following no clear path yet (because they spent all their money on untradable players) cutting off all other paths. Terd must have read The Road Less Traveled Because It So Obviously Sucks and thought, "Hmmm, perhaps we'll take that road. I'm so smart."

[willbcocks]

Unlike some others in the thread, I don't think the salaries hamper a rebuild too much. The salary cap keeps going up, and there is a salary floor, meaning we have to pay someone. If Wall and Gortat leave and with the cap going up, we'd still have plenty of cap space to take on bad contracts in exchange for picks. And because other teams tend to have more space in this cap-expanding environment, there is more competition for these types of deals anyway, meaning it's unlikely we would be able to create more of them even if we had a lot more cap space.

The best time to have cap-space is when you have a good team with young players trying to make the leap to the next level. The original plan to have space available this past offseason was a good one, though it did not predict the rate of cap-expansion, and our GM f'ed up so badly that we were not, in fact, a good team with young players ready to make the leap.

The only thing hampering a rebuild will be EG and Ted's hesitancy to start it. Rebuilds are successful because of high picks, and the faster we get the clock started on getting those, the better.

[TGW]

You guys need to get a clue.

The reason this team sucks is because VC rent is TOO DAMN HIGH.

[Marko1980]

I think tonight we saw what our team can do at their best. Everyone could see that our bench is worthless. Scott Brooks will agree and that's why he did play our starting lineup almost 40 minutes. You don't make play 35-40 minutes to the players who are back from surgery, injuries or who don't have enough energy...

Our 5 was good. Gortat, Beal, Porter and Wall were excellent. Morris had a bad day. It is ok. It is rare to have 5 starting players at top every night even if you are a top team.

We lost our game at the end of 2nd and 4th with our starting leneup. This is the price of fatigue. Impossible to play good defense with fatigue. It cost us a game.

Brooks tried something different tonight. He tried to slow down the game with second unit to avoid the disasters we've seen in the previous game. It was a good idea. I think our players were at their best! But that is not enough for the playoffs.

CONCLUSION: Our second unit is horrible! Our first unit can't play good defense 35-40 minutes per game (Not their fault, I have never seen that). MISSION IMPOSSIBLE!!!

We miss 3 top players to be a serious team.
-1 great shooter. (pg/sg)
-1 great SF
-1 great PF/C

There is no trade possible to give us that.

Tank is maybe the best we can do... But not sure if we have to lose year after year our top effective players (Ariza, Pierce, Nene...)

I hope Capitals and Redskins can give us some joy.

[Ruzious]

Read on Twitter

Sad that this happens the day he breaks the team record in assists. And I wouldn't be surprised if they up it to a 2 game suspension.

Even the local sports guys are talking about it being time to fire Grunfeld - though it seems their only complaint is the past offseason. Afterall, these are the same guys who thought the Wiz were on the right road to success and just needed more "momentum". Last season failed because "they lost their momentum". Oh well - It usually takes the local media to call for a firing before a firing happens, and if they finally caught on - it could happen soon.

Hopefully the new GM is given permission to blow it all up - including Wall, Beal, and Gortat.

[montestewart]

Unlike some others in the thread, I don't think the salaries hamper a rebuild too much. The salary cap keeps going up, and there is a salary floor, meaning we have to pay someone. If Wall and Gortat leave and with the cap going up, we'd still have plenty of cap space to take on bad contracts in exchange for picks. And because other teams tend to have more space in this cap-expanding environment, there is more competition for these types of deals anyway, meaning it's unlikely we would be able to create more of them even if we had a lot more cap space.

The best time to have cap-space is when you have a good team with young players trying to make the leap to the next level. The original plan to have space available this past offseason was a good one, though it did not predict the rate of cap-expansion, and our GM f'ed up so badly that we were not, in fact, a good team with young players ready to make the leap.

The only thing hampering a rebuild will be EG and Ted's hesitancy to start it. Rebuilds are successful because of high picks, and the faster we get the clock started on getting those, the better.

Bolded above is definitely part of the problem, but Terd n Ernie have proven to be incompetent in many areas of team building. Remember, they were not only wrong about the quality of the young core, they were also wrong about the quality of the bench depth on which they spent all the team's remaining cap space, and they committed long term to that sub-par bench, further hampering their ability to retool on the fly. "We have to pay someone" is OK if they truly are rebuilding, because Smith and Burke are perfect for a tank until there are some decent young prospects to lose while learning, but ostensibly those two were acquired with winning in mind. I can't be hopeful with the Terd n Ernie think (unintentional) tank in charge of the next rebuild.

[nate33]

It's been said on the Wiz board numerous times, but the failure is directly tied to Terd's plan and building around a good young core "capable of contending for a championship." We saw about four years ago when the Wizards started acquiring the high priced contracts of veterans Nene, Okafor, and Gortat that Terd n Ernie must have thought they had the young core that could eventually contend, and they stopped trying to accumulate young assets ("picks and prospects"), instead merely nurturing and tweaking the recipe. We saw they were blind, and now we see that blindness has led them to overcommit to a young core that shows no signs of ever being able to compete for a championship. I like Wall, but nothing about him says "best player on a contender." I like Porter but he's not anywhere near "best player on a contender." Beal will never be anywhere near "best player on a contender."

That the young core was nowhere near contending wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that their "plan" is both vague and rigid, following no clear path yet (because they spent all their money on untradable players) cutting off all other paths. Terd must have read The Road Less Traveled Because It So Obviously Sucks and thought, "Hmmm, perhaps we'll take that road. I'm so smart."

I didn't mind the Nene acquisition, and I could even live with the Okafor/Ariza acquisition because neither involved us giving up picks to acquire them. I think there is some logic to the notion that you need some good vets to help teach the youngsters how to play.

The bad moves were the acquisition of Gortat and Morris, which involved giving up picks. But even worse was the horrible drafting. There is no overarching strategy that's going to make any difference if you can't draft well. Ernie hasn't drafted a player in the first round that has exceeded expectations for his draft position in 13 years. The only arguable exception is Trevor Booker.

We've revisited this a number of times, but there is just no getting over the two catastrophic, worst-of-all-time caliber draft day disasters when we traded the #6 pick (Curry) for Mike Miller, and when we drafted Vesely instead of Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard. Those disasters ensured an entire decade of mediocrity.

[montestewart]

It's been said on the Wiz board numerous times, but the failure is directly tied to Terd's plan and building around a good young core "capable of contending for a championship." We saw about four years ago when the Wizards started acquiring the high priced contracts of veterans Nene, Okafor, and Gortat that Terd n Ernie must have thought they had the young core that could eventually contend, and they stopped trying to accumulate young assets ("picks and prospects"), instead merely nurturing and tweaking the recipe. We saw they were blind, and now we see that blindness has led them to overcommit to a young core that shows no signs of ever being able to compete for a championship. I like Wall, but nothing about him says "best player on a contender." I like Porter but he's not anywhere near "best player on a contender." Beal will never be anywhere near "best player on a contender."

That the young core was nowhere near contending wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that their "plan" is both vague and rigid, following no clear path yet (because they spent all their money on untradable players) cutting off all other paths. Terd must have read The Road Less Traveled Because It So Obviously Sucks and thought, "Hmmm, perhaps we'll take that road. I'm so smart."

I didn't mind the Nene acquisition, and I could even live with the Okafor/Ariza acquisition because neither involved us giving up picks to acquire them. I think there is some logic to the notion that you need some good vets to help teach the youngsters how to play.

The bad moves were the acquisition of Gortat and Morris, which involved giving up picks. But even worse was the horrible drafting. There is no overarching strategy that's going to make any difference if you can't draft well. Ernie hasn't drafted a player in the first round that has exceeded expectations for his draft position in 13 years. The only arguable exception is Trevor Booker.

We've revisited this a number of times, but there is just no getting over the two catastrophic, worst-of-all-time caliber draft day disasters when we traded the #6 pick (Curry) for Mike Miller, and when we drafted Vesely instead of Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard. Those disasters ensured an entire decade of mediocrity.

I didn't really mind getting Nene and Okafor/Ariza (although they did give up a 2nd in the latter) but it already showed that Terd n Ernie were incapable of thinking big, clearing out cap space to try and make a splash (like acquiring Harden). I didn't mind getting Gortat and I didn't totally hate getting Morris, but giving up draft picks to get them cemented the impression the previous moves were already giving: that they were going to live or die primarily by EG's largely bad drafting, and they would commit inflexibly to building a team around them.

When they traded for Miller and Foye (it was actually the #5 pick) I tried to rationalize that maybe it could work as part of a larger strategy. Of course I didn't know how good Curry would be, but that hardly matters, because it wasn't part of a larger strategy (more big and defense to go with shooters) it was just a bad strategy. The acquisition of veteran frontcourt players could have been part of a good strategy, but it seems it wasn't. There's no telling how much this feeble path influenced Durant's decision, or Horford's decision, or prevented other possibilities from materializing, but it sure didn't help.

[lastemp3ror]

IMO what needs to happen is no deals until EG is gone from authority.



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Yes. Here is what is going to happen. Ted is starting to realize that his worse fears for this season are becoming true. He is starting to think about the possibility of letting Ernie go. But since they are good friends and have worked together for over a decade, he will wait until after the holidays (you never give a friend bad news before the holidays). Plus this will give him time to interview and find a new GM and give the new GM time to assess the team/roster and its direction. Thus giving the new GM about a month to start bartering deals before the trade deadline.

[Ruzious]

IMO what needs to happen is no deals until EG is gone from authority.



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Yes. Here is what is going to happen. Ted is starting to realize that his worse fears for this season are becoming true. He is starting to think about the possibility of letting Ernie go. But since they are good friends and have worked together for over a decade, he will wait until after the holidays (you never give a friend bad news before the holidays). Plus this will give him time to interview and find a new GM and give the new GM time to assess the team/roster and its direction. Thus giving the new GM about a month to start bartering deals before the trade deadline.

I think the first thing Ted should do is hire a new team president - so he has someone who has a basis in knowing what to look for in a new GM. Ted making the decision on the new GM doesn't inspire confidence. I believe Ernie has the title now - which is probably part of the problem.